Arthritis

[SAM -BOB]

Just been told by the vet that Sam has arthritis in his shoulders and elbows (he is 11), he has been prescribed anti inflamiteries but would like to give him natural supplements to help if anyone knows of anything that may help, also thinking of changing him to a raised feeder and a new bed, again any suggestions that will help my now ageing baby boy.

[elaine.e]

Sorry to hear that Sam has arthritis. A good glucosamine and chondroitin supplement may help. William has Riaflex, which is expensive but has a higher concentration of both ingredients than any other supplements that I know of. The biggest size pot lasts almost a year.

I'm also currently looking at using Turmeric for both him and me! If you're on Facebook there's a turmeric user group set up by a vet from Australia and used by lots of horse and dog owners. I haven't researched it fully yet but apparently you need to mix the turmeric with either coconut oil or olive oil to make a paste and then add a little black pepper to make it act as efficiently as possible. Sounds revolting . As I say, I haven't fully researched it yet but I know that turmeric is a blood thinner so before I take any I'll be checking with my GP that it's safe with the medication I take for high blood pressure.

My dogs have raised beds and I make sure that they never sleep on damp bedding. William is still OK getting in and out of the car but I'll probably end up getting a dog ramp for him. My friend has one for her 12 year old Golden Retriever, Ruby, who has arthritis and it helps her a lot.

[Jessie_Pup]

I have been thinking of changing Dylan onto Riaflex he has Yumove at the moment. He is nearly 13 and although he walks okay with no limping he is slower of a morning and on his walks.

[SAM -BOB]

Thanks think I'll try the Riaflex and see how he gets on, will look into the bed and raised feeding bowls over the couple of days thanks again x

[john51]

I'm really sorry to hear about Sam's arthritis and hope you can find a way of minimising his discomfort. NSAIDs like Metacam are quite effective and should help a lot. There are lots of claims for the effectiveness of various supplements but most of the evidence is fairly weak. A systematic study (review of other studies) in 2012 in the Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine concluded that:

The evidence of efficacy of nutraceuticals is poor, with the exception of diets supplemented with omega-3 fatty acids in dogs.

They looked at the usual candidates (glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM etc.) and were specifically considering the clinical signs of the disease - ie effect on the pain felt by the dogs.

[JanineH]

My Alf's 12 years old and has arthritis in his shoulder.

The vet recommended Yumove and he's been on it for a couple of months along with Onsior.

He also has coconut oil everyday.

Not seen a lot of improvement yet so any more suggestions welcome!

[john51]

Sorry to hear about Alf's shoulder. As I said above, I don't think there's much evidence for the effectiveness of the constituents of Yumove in treating osteoarthritis. Coconut oil has been promoted as a wonder substance (mainly from unreliable sources) but again the research isn't in place to show this is the case yet. Onsior is robenacoxib and the leaflet says:

A clinical response is normally seen within a week. Treatment should be discontinued after 10 days if no clinical improvement is apparent.

It may be that you should see if the vet thinks it's time to try one of the alternatives which might give better results.

I know we'll all try anything and spend anything to support our dogs, but the reality is that supplements probably aren't that effective (maybe with the exception of omega 3 fatty acids?) and will almost certainly have less therapeutic effect than an NSAID.

[Bevjparkes]

To echo Elaine.e's comments, a friend of mine has had wonderful results after supplementing her old Patterdale's diet with turmeric - well worth looking at I would think.

[vixen]

Marley (aged 6) has arthritis.  Instead of taking the pills prescribed by the vet ( I was concerned about long term side effects) I have gone down a more natural route.  She wears a magnetic collar, has Flexi-joints tablets (she gets on better with these than Yumove), has salmon oil, goes to hydrotherapy plus I am very conscious of keeping her weight down and restricting her exercise.  I try to avoid walks along hard ground as this can jar her joints.  She also has a raised bed to keep her out of draughts.
I can't say definitely that any of these supplements actually work by themselves or as a combination BUT she is a lot better in herself.  A year ago the vet was recommending a very invasive operation which involved cutting through the bone and rotating her joint    but we have avoided this and will continue to do so as long as she maintains her current health.
There may not be any scientific proof of the healing properties of what I use but no one has told Marley 

[JanineH]

A clinical response is normally seen within a week. Treatment should be discontinued after 10 days if no clinical improvement is apparent.

It may be that you should see if the vet thinks it's time to try one of the alternatives which might give better results.

Hmmm.. the vet gave me 30 days supply of the Onsior 

[john51]

Pleased to hear that Marley is well under her natural treatment regime! I agree that if it's not necessary for her to take drugs at the moment then it's best to avoid them. However, as you say, it's difficult to decide whether it is the supplements that are having any effect or it's just the natural ups and downs of the disease. I took glucosamine and chondroitin for a while to see if it would help with arthritis. It didn't, but some time later the problem eased and has been fine for a long time. If I'd carried on taking a supplement I might be singing its praises now - no less pain just a few less £s.

The reason I keep going on about evidence is that it seems to me that a lot of people have a fairly uncritical and rosy view of "natural" remedies while being unjustifiably suspicious of conventional medicine. I just think it's better if people take a rational view of both. I'm not actually saying these food supplements don't work, just that the evidence isn't yet there. (But also with a bit of suspicion that if they were very effective the evidence would be a lot clearer, and that a lot of the perceived benefit could be due to the placebo effect.)

When it comes to turmeric, it is another compound with a lot of interesting properties which doesn't seem to have emerged as an effective treatment yet. It may well be worth a look, but Arthritis Research UK (human) rate it only as 2 for evidence of effectiveness, which means that there are "important doubts over whether or not it works". It comes well behind capsaicin, frankincense and SAMe, as candidates for self-treatment in their list. For dogs, the systematic study I referenced before found that with P54FP (Indian and Javanese turmeric extract) there was no statistically significant evidence that owners believed it works, that an objective measure of the force that dogs were putting through their joints was not increased, but that researchers believed there was some evidence of clinical improvement.

JanineH - it may be that your vet has experience that some dogs respond later and it's worth persevering for a bit.

[carol pearson]

Ozzy is 9 and has arthritis in 4 joints and he started having problems about 2 years ago. He started walking slow hanging his head down and some days would not even go out, which was not like him has he has always had 3 walks a day.

Xrays confirmed arthritis and at this time he was very sore so was given Metacam. My vet also recommended Synoquin (a glucosamine/chondroitin product). There was a big improvement but after about 3 months I started to be concerned about the long term problems associated with Metacam.
I gradually stopped the Metacam and continued with the Synoquin and also added MSM and Green Lipped Muscle

I still use Metacam when needed but that is very rare now.

Recently I looked for a stronger glucosamine product and he now has Riaflex Canine Joint Plus which also contains MSM (same as Elaine.e) and their Green Lipped Muscle.
Also 4 months ago Ozzy started having accupuncture and after a couple of days it was like having my dog back.
There was a slight set back with the accupuncture but because of the good reviews decided to carry on.
And I am really glad we did, he needs a top up every 6 weeks and I have to make sure he does not do to much but he is a different dog to how he was 2 years ago.

I know every dog is different and what works for one will not necessary help another dog but when I see Ozzy trotting away and even having a little play with his friends I now what we are doing at the moment is working.

[elaine.e]

Ozzy is 9 and has arthritis in 4 joints and he started having problems about 2 years ago. He started walking slow hanging his head down and some days would not even go out, which was not like him has he has always had 3 walks a day.

Xrays confirmed arthritis and at this time he was very sore so was given Metacam. My vet also recommended Synoquin (a glucosamine/chondroitin product). There was a big improvement but after about 3 months I started to be concerned about the long term problems associated with Metacam.
I gradually stopped the Metacam and continued with the Synoquin and also added MSM and Green Lipped Muscle

I still use Metacam when needed but that is very rare now.

Recently I looked for a stronger glucosamine product and he now has Riaflex Canine Joint Plus which also contains MSM (same as Elaine.e) and their Green Lipped Muscle.
Also 4 months ago Ozzy started having accupuncture and after a couple of days it was like having my dog back.
There was a slight set back with the accupuncture but because of the good reviews decided to carry on.
And I am really glad we did, he needs a top up every 6 weeks and I have to make sure he does not do to much but he is a different dog to how he was 2 years ago.

I know every dog is different and what works for one will not necessary help another dog but when I see Ozzy trotting away and even having a little play with his friends I now what we are doing at the moment is working.

It's lovely to hear how well Ozzy is doing. I remember how down you sounded when you first posted on here about his arthritis. William has acupuncture too, about every 8 weeks or so and always moves more easily for some time afterwards.

[john51]

Hello Carol,

It sounds as though you are doing a really good job of managing Ozzy's symptoms and I am delighted that he is enjoying his walks. The important thing is that he gets an effective anti-inflammatory and pain management treatment such as Metacam when he needs it, and then the use of supplements may help to reduce the amount of Metacam he needs to take.

When I try to suggest evidence of effectiveness and safety is important, the main target is not people who use things like food supplements alongside drugs sensibly as part of a treatment regime, but those who shriek that everything that medical science produces is poisoning your pet and that it can all be replaced with perfectly safe, natural products. Most of the websites that do this seem to be American (so far), and it is often tied in with conspiracy theory about "Big pharma" in league with the doctors and the government to keep people buying expensive drugs. It also usually includes condemnation of vaccines (for both pets and humans) that flies in the face of all the benefits of modern medicine.

The only thing I will say is that, despite its many followers, acupuncture doesn't work. There is no physical basis for it as a treatment. There are no energy meridians in the body, no blockages of energy and no such thing as a vital energy flowing round the body. More importantly, there is no convincing evidence that it works. The problem with trying to decide what works on the basis of a single dog is that there is no control group. When properly constructed studies are performed it is found that sham acupuncture, where needles are inserted into random places on the body, is just as effective as "real" acupuncture. The only good thing about it is that it is unlikely to do any harm.

In 2013, the American Academy of Osteopathic Surgeons produced a 1200 page study of various interventions to treat osteoarthritis of the knee. They gave a strong recommendation that acupuncture was not an appropriate treatment because there was no evidence that it works. As always, people will make up their own minds.

[carol pearson]

Elaine.e  nice of you to remember, yes I was very down when I first posted on here but all the recommendations and advice from COL (yourself included) really helped, both myself and Ozzy.

Hello john51, as you say everyone will make up their own minds.
But all I can say is that when Ozzy has his acupuncture there is such a big improvement that for him it works.