Author Topic: Interesting article  (Read 3145 times)

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Offline Helen

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Offline phoenix

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Re: Interesting article
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 09:06:06 AM »
I had to read this three times to understand it.   In a perfect world he's right.  But following his theory of common sense, others may still  contribute to inbreeding these healthy dogs further down the generations.  My limited understanding is that this isn't ideal,  you always get mutations,   bringing us back to the COI  discussion.
 I adopted a beautiful non-Cocker ex show dog, who developed a lifelong auto immune condition, now I know the COI was 25%. The other dogs the kennels rehomed never made it to 11 yrs. They all looked amazingly healthy in their younger years, won Crufts,  and were clear in the required genetic disease tests. 
My theory is that you need to know how long the pups grandparents etc. lived, and if they were healthy.   Obviously there are no statistics for this. The Bill Andrews theory of a healthy looking dog won't look at them beyond breeding age.
After losing my cocker early I registered the cause on the KC website, but I don't know what they do with the information yet.   I think the breeders who also publish their dogs tests when the results are carriers, or positive should be praised.
Bill Andrews is right that if you only breed the right dogs, the problem disappears. But others will appear. 
It all stinks of eugenics.   Finally the deliberate ,  moneyspinner  cross breeds market is alarming.   I looked at Pets4homes crossbreed puppies  for sale pages .  I saw 3O pages of ads,  meaning  50 puppies a page.  Where are these 1500 dogs going?   No tests,  'rare colours',  pedigree F1 cross ! 
I despair. Most people I meet  now, have a rescue dog,  like me.   None of us wanted to line the pockets of these people, but don't get the fun of a puppy .
RIP Marti  the EPI springer age 12,  and beloved black cocker Bobby, 8 yrs old, too soon, from PLN.
Now owned by TInker, tiny hairy grey poodle/terrier rescue from Greece and Jack, local rescue,   scruffy ginger terrier mutt.

Offline Helen

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Re: Interesting article
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2016, 09:43:09 AM »
where's your proof a high COI was the cause of his AI disease?  It could easily have been triggered by over vaccination or other environmental or stress factors.


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Offline phoenix

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Re: Interesting article
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2016, 12:25:32 PM »
Without doing an epidemiological study, I can't prove it's to do with COI.  Research into Epi has only just taken off. It is proven to be genetic  in GSD's  However,  now the condition is getting known, dogs of other breeds have been blood tested, like Marti, weeks before imminent death.   I don't know whether her pedigree had a gene, or whether they were suffering from weakened immune systems.  I do know that four dogs from that same breeder,  a judge,  died too young, from  cancer,  kidney probs, cushiness , and one had glaucoma. Marti was lucky that her vet found the problem, and she lived with food enzymes happily ever after.
Notably, her breeder has imported new blood lines.   It is difficult for them to know if their dogs have a problem after going to new homes, if the owners don't tell them.  And this applies to the people in the article as well.   
Back to my dog,   Did she have a weakened immune system affected by vaccinations ?   Quite likely.
Environmental factors,  spaniels don't always cope with kennel life, which she had for two years.  But the globalt hundreds of other dogs of all breeds  like her, had a variety of homes, foods, water etc.
If you have time and interest  in reading the new scientific research into EPI factors , look at EPI4DOGS  website,  which is American, and supported by their veterinary associations . It's not a quack setup. Dr Penny Watson is associated with it, and Dr Jean Dodds.
There is a article on different breeds, and associated crossbreeds now reported with it.
Breeders need honest communication with each other,   As well as common sense.    I m sure you train a support dog by its aptitude. Would you train one if you knew it  had the same names several times in a five year pedigree?
 

RIP Marti  the EPI springer age 12,  and beloved black cocker Bobby, 8 yrs old, too soon, from PLN.
Now owned by TInker, tiny hairy grey poodle/terrier rescue from Greece and Jack, local rescue,   scruffy ginger terrier mutt.