Rage syndrome

[LesleyP]

I have just returned from my training class with Bob.  This was only our 4th week.  Early days.  But over the last 2 weeks or so at home, Bob has changed.  It was suggested he was finding his feet with us and testing us, so to speak (he is a rescue, 12 months old, we are his third home and has been with us about 10 weeks) but I am concerned there may be something more.  Training has regressed dramatically and it was the trainer tonight who asked me if I had heard of rage syndrome.  This was after Bob had bitten me (he didn't break skin) whilst trying to get him to sit and stay.

I had to leave the lesson because he was turning nasty.  Another trainer approached and suggested I read up on rage syndrome, and then take Bob to the vets.  (Bob has been castrated, 4 weeks ago)

Please don't get me wrong, he wasn't suggesting Bob has this syndrome but they had obviously both seen something they didn't like.  

Maybe I am trying too hard with the training, maybe he is asserting himself.  When we becomes aggressive he gets locked into the dining room for a 'time out' and when he comes out he's like 'why did you do that'. My daughter is now slightly scared of him and my husband, understandably doesn't want a dangerous dog in the house.  I dread to think what will happen if Bob actually draws blood.

Help!  He had such a wonderful temperament when he arrived, which I can still see.   What am I doing wrong?                    

[Jane S]

Hello Lesley

Rage Syndrome has come up many times on the forum so if you have a little look round, I'm sure you'll find previous threads. You should also check out this site for more information & advice: www.cockerspanielrage.org.uk. For what it's worth, your dog does not sound like he is suffering from Rage - if he is getting aggressive when being made to do something he doesn't want to do, then he is in control of his behaviour unlike Rage where the aggression is completely unpredictable & the dog appears not to know what he's doing. Perhaps you might benefit from some one-2-one training with an experienced trainer rather than a class situation at the moment? Have a look at www.apdt.co.uk to see if you can find a trainer offering 1-2-1 near you.

Jane                    

[PennyB]

Couldn't agree more with what Jane has just said. I'm a great believer in 1-2-1 training as long as you find a trainer who's not blinkered by the rage theories. Its sad that a cocker can behave badly and then gets labelled without thinking it could be something a lot simpler (not by you, but the fact that the trainers thought of it in the 1st place before suggesting anything else).

It wouldn't surprise me (and I'm only guessing here because of your dog's age) that previous owners didn't have the patience with him and didn't bother with training in the right way or may be poor socialising, and he's a pupster who's going through adolescence right now which can be difficult even for those of us who have all the patience in the world (and grey hair to prove it). Sadly too many take on cockers as pups thinking they are plodding little lapdogs, well what can you say.

Good luck, its early days yet and with a lot of patience and the right help you'll get there.                    

[LesleyP]

Thanks for the reassurance.  

I have contacted someone from the APDT who is coming round next Monday.  She agrees that Bob is not suffering from rage syndrome and, like you, is annoyed that it was even mentioned.  She thinks the training class is probably too strict.  I will let you know how we get on.

Lesley & Bob                    

[PennyB]

Glad you've found someone. A trainer who really understands your dog is invaluable. I learnt so much from mine.

In the 1st puppy classes I took Ruby to (not the one I go to now!) I was struggling as I'd never trained a dog before. The lady who ran it decided to 'ehlp' by taking Ruby and showing me how to do something. Her comment in her frustration to get Ruby to do anything was 'bloody spaniels', when I asked why it was because they are so 'busy'. I eventually took her to 1-2-1 classes somewhere else and the trainer addressed that problem immediately without having to pull her around as the other trainer did and Ruby responded to his every whim within half an hour (I think she was in love with him, you could see it in her eyes as she followed him). Mind you the main problem then was me! LOL (I kept tripping over the lead/my feet trying to get things right).                    

[padfoot]

It sounds like a dominance problem. I hope you get it sorted out                      

[Pammy]

I can only reiterate what has already been said - this does not sound like rage but the legacy/baggage from his past homes. Some trainers shouldn't be let near dogs or their woners!! It is a question of finding the right trainer for him and one to one will prob do the trick. This trainer should also be able to help with your daughter and husband as dogs do pick up on our anxieties which makes them anxious too. It's how they react to that anxiety that differs with each dog - some turning aggressive as yours does. A different approach could make all the difference.

Good luck and chin up, all is not lost by any means. Do let us know how you get on.                    

[Wendy G]

If your current trainer does not work out you could try
www.safepetsdogtraining.co.uk. We took our re-homed 3½ yr old working
cocker there.Although having owned and trained 3 other working cockers from puppies we had a problem with Spud in that he had been in a pet home for all of his life and had not been let off of the lead, consequently when we let him off we could not get him back, he also had a few other
minor problems, but the main one was re-call. After going to Debbie for 2 weeks training and working with her and Spud he is now a very different dog.He comes when called or whistled and is a happier dog as he now knows his place in the house hold pecking order.Look at the testimonials
on the site.She is very, very good.



Edited to fix the link - Pammy                    

[LesleyP]

Hi guys

Just to let you know the one to one training has been postponed until next Saturday - the lady is very busy - makes you wonder why?

I have also since heard some really bad reports about the training class I went to.  Isn' t there some sort of regulation of these people, I know they had qualifications, but being inexperienced how am I not to know that it wasn't from the back of a lorry so to speak.  I am really concerned about some of the things I have heard.  I am not the sort of person to go and confront people like this but I was wondering if I should be passing my concerns onto someone else?

On the plus side, Bob has 'got over' last Wednesday and showering him with love and affection is doing wonders for him and for me!  All I want is a dog that I can take out without being dragged, will come back to me when called, will sit/stay when necessary (he ran out the front door the other day, talk about heart attack, we live on a main road, fortunately he came back when I waved his lead in the air, he loves him walks!)  

I will let you all know how it goes. Thanks again.                    

[PennyB]

Re the running out is it possible to put up a baby gate somewhere for now. I have one on the hall door so I can get to the door and know my 2 are safe behind the baby gate (they manage to break open the hall door if they get bored!).

Sadly anyone can set up a training class. Its always best if you can get to go and see how they run before you take your dog to it sometimes.

My dog trainer uses a training line for dogs that have bad recall. I've got one for Wilf as on longer treks some of the places we go to are too much for him to concentrate on me. Ours is about 10 metres long that I attach to a harness with a trigger hook which I find safer than attaching it to his collar and it just drags behind him (you can jump on it if necessary if he does a runner).

How good at focusing on you when you're out. Might be worth at least practising to get him to 'look' at you on command as this breaks the concentration of whatever they're doing and focuses on you so increases the bond between you (I used to carry a squeaky toy or say 'what's this' to get Ruby to do that and then praise her/treat her just for doing that). This was my biggest hurdle with Ruby and one the 1st classes missed on completely as if the dog isn't focusing on you then they ain't listening to you either. My 2nd trainer always emphasised that certain breeds (scent hounds/gundogs) were more difficult and that's why you had to work hard on focusing them and he gave me a whole load of tips how to keep Ruby's attention rather than having her nose on the ground all the time. Mind you you're having the added problem of adolescence!

Good luck, am sure you'll enjoy your class.                    

[LesleyP]

Just wanted to let you all know how Bob and I did with the trainer from the APDT.

Heidi was a lovely lady and actually spent nearly 4 hours with us, chatting, looking for solutions etc.  We now have a gentle leader, which is taking Bob a little bit of time to get used to but at least I am not dragged around the block and we have kong.

The solution for him running out of the door was to used a spare lead positioned around the bannister post, which, when the door bell rings, Bob is attached to with a treat and a 'good boy' before we open the door. That way he can see what is going on without running out.  Hopefully in time when the door bell rings he will just sit and wait by the post.

As I already knew after conversing with you guys, he doesn't have rage.  He is very excitable (apparently more than most) but Heidi agrees is most probably something to do with his unknown past.  We have also put Bob on Bach rescue remedy and someone else has suggested a book detailing how the other Bach remedies can work.  I am a great believe in Bach remedies and use some myself, so it made perfect sense to me.

I will not be returning to the training class but I have passed on a message that he doesn't have rage and how wrong they were, also perhaps they ought to think twice before they make similar comments.

Bob already seems much calmer, or more likely he is picking up a calmer attitude from me!

Lesley & Bob                    

[Pammy]

Bob already seems much calmer, or more likely he is picking up a calmer attitude from me!

Lesley & Bob

this will most certainly help - well done - keep it up                    

[PennyB]

Have you thought about using some of the other Bachs rather than rescue remedy as the homeopathic vet I spoke to suggested that should be for emergencies. There will probably be something more suitable

http://www.animalsnaturally.com/store                    

[Gilly]

Pleased to hear you are having more success with Bob..long may it continue                      

[LindaW]

Well done Lesley and Bob - that is good news