Off lead - I think I;m a bit of a worrier...

[bajoleth]

I never thought I would have the confidence to let Belle off lead as our cavie was a nightmare she thought that her lead being unclipped meant run, as fast as you can in any direction you like But i have to say with words of wisdom from all of you on COL i let her off at about 12 weeks and we havent looked back, helped very much by the fact that she is led by her stomach and knows I carry the high value treats on walks, apart from 1 episode with a flock of birds her recall has been 100% and I love being able to let her off, she rarely goes really far and always checks to see if she can see me, but I never relax completely as she is still a baby and I need to know where she is so I completely understand you being apprehensive fizzyntiffy

[Helen]

A lot of us picked on that particular comment Sue - 'harsh words' on this occasion are both aversive and futile as the dog is reacting only to the tone of voice and cannot decipher which event the 'harsh words' are related to.  All the dog knows is that he's being yelled at and reacts in a submissive 'sorry' way (but doesn't know why).

As the forum promotes positive methods of training this can be seen as aversive - the 'Voice of Doom' is used by a lot of us on odd occasions - I use it very rarely to stop my dog in his tracks if he is in danger....but I definitely don't use it as a matter of course as some kind of training tool.

[Nicola]

 If someone says something that I personally think is wrong and potentially distressing to a dog then I'll say something,

So, are you saying that you personally think that the way J handles his dog is wrong and potentially distressing then?

Telling a dog off harshly after the event is wrong and potentially distressing to the dog, yes. Nobody was saying it as an attack or saying that everything that J does with his dog is wrong, simply making the point that that particular action was aversive and pointless as Helen explained.

[J]

aversive and pointless ? (He has never done it since to anyone who has taken him out for a walk.)

Maybe, maybe not. However, I can walk my my dog anywhere in or out of town knowing that he not run off, he will walk to heal  and fingers crossed never get run down. On a lead he will not pull with means that I can trust him 100% when my 6 year old daughter takes him for a walk with us.
I don't expect everyone to agree with the way everone else raises a dog, but as far as I am concerned, my dog leads a full and very happy life wanting for nothing and fearing nobody in my house. I wish the same could be said for the hhundreds of poor souls in rescue.
I am now concious of hi jacking this thread so (with the greatest repect) if anyone needs to clarify or question my actions please feel free to PM me
Kind regards
J

[PennyB]

aversive and pointless ? (He has never done it since to anyone who has taken him out for a walk.)

Maybe, maybe not. However, I can walk my my dog anywhere in or out of town knowing that he not run off, he will walk to heal  and fingers crossed never get run down. On a lead he will not pull with means that I can trust him 100% when my 6 year old daughter takes him for a walk with us.
I don't expect everyone to agree with the way everone else raises a dog, but as far as I am concerned, my dog leads a full and very happy life wanting for nothing and fearing nobody in my house. I wish the same could be said for the hhundreds of poor souls in rescue.
I am now concious of hi jacking this thread so (with the greatest repect) if anyone needs to clarify or question my actions please feel free to PM me
Kind regards
J

As this thread is in Behaviour and training then it is important to get across what is good and bad practice which is why others have raised this point - most of out either know or were taught that to tell a dog off for coming back to them isn't the way to go but as others suggested its more than likely some of the other more positive things you were doing that did the trick anyway - bearing in mind that we are very much about positive training methods and helping others with their positive training experiences

Generally advocating bad methods with hundreds in rescue isn't the point though really

[fizzyntiffy]

Well, just come back from a walk in the woods and I let up a bit  , they've been crashing about in the undergrowth with only the waving about of fern like branches to indicate where they were    They kept checking in with me and came back when called apart from a bit of selective hearing from Tiff on a couple of occasions. 

After all the bits of stuff stuck to them and the stagnant mud they were wading through they are now known as the gruesome twosome 

[sassie]

Larnie is now 16 weeks, and I let her off lead as soon as she was ready after vaccinations and micro-chipping.  I wanted to get cracking with recall training as soon as possible, it is going well and I do call her back intermittently with chicken or livercake as a reward (that's proper livercake, not helen - although she would probably love Helen as a reward  ).

She does tend to race after people to say hello, and then races back and I am working on this - because although it's great as a puppy, it may not be so welcome when she is older.  She does keep a beady eye on me and has a limit as to how far she will go, before coming back voluntarily.  I make sure I always know where she is.

I must say I am with Jeanette on the whole ' dog with owner several miles away' thing, it's so frustrating when your walk gets ruined.

[Helen]

it is going well and I do call her back intermittently with chicken or livercake as a reward (that's proper livercake, not helen - although she would probably love Helen as a reward  ).

I think I'd be the one getting the reward if she came back to me 

well done for taking the plunge    Looking forward to meeting Larnie one day and sneaking a few squidges 

[sassie]

it is going well and I do call her back intermittently with chicken or livercake as a reward (that's proper livercake, not helen - although she would probably love Helen as a reward  ).

I think I'd be the one getting the reward if she came back to me 

well done for taking the plunge    Looking forward to meeting Larnie one day and sneaking a few squidges 

Thats a definate, I must have at least one fabby photo of her so will be booking a photo session with you if poss., after her first year - also want to get my mitts on Jarvis 

[debrand]

I'm a worrier too if they are off-lead. 
Fine in the fields around our home as they all stay in whichever field I am in but after losing Jet too the road when I thought he was a long way from it  I admit to not liking any of them out of my sight.
Have to say all three have excellent recall    (although to be honest Finn tends to follow Milly now when we're out so if she comes back so does he )
Everyone gets a treat or a fuss as soon as they get back-even if it is not an immediate return.

[hanandhen]

The first time I let Henry off the lead he vanished off into the woods and I almost had a heart attack! I have spent the last 7 months hiding behind trees, bushes, clumps of grass, and have definitely been mistaken for a flasher or someone having a wee at least once BUT he has learned to keep an eye on me because I could vanish at any second and take the biscuits with me I also use a whistle - unless there is something really exciting (like a rabbit, squirrel, or lump of foxpoo) he will now come back.

I have also found playing games helpful, he doesn't bother about toys when we're out but he does love it if I throw stones into the undergrowth - he leaps around like a numpty, normally in totally the wrong place but he does have fun pretending to be a proper working dog and he knows that it is me providing the fun so comes back for more! Sometimes he even finds them, in which case he gets an extra huge fuss once I have picked my jaw up off the floor (I really don't think he's too bright, good job he's pretty )

He now stays in sight most of the time. I have also put bells on his collar sometimes so I can keep an ear on him - I will be using these in winter in the dark.