CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: tooters on February 17, 2004, 12:40:02 AM
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Hi. I hope somebody can offer some advice. Although i've had cocker spaniels for many years, i have never experienced a litter of puppies.
am presently the very proud owner of an orange and white bitch, called Molly,
We we are very keen for her to have a litter of puppies but don't know where to start, as we obviously want to make sure everything goes as smoothly as possible.
She is now 3 years old, her seasons are not particularly regular so it's difficult to know 'the right time'.
We live in the Bristol area and would very much welcome any help or advice that anyone can offer.
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Hello Tooters
Deciding to have a litter is a big decision as I'm sure you know. Have you read our FAQ on Breeding a Litter? You can find it here : http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/forum/viewt...opic.php?t=3428 (http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3428) If after reading this, you are still keen to breed from your Molly, your first purchase should be "The Book Of The Bitch" by Evans & White. You should then contact Molly's breeder for advice on suitable stud dogs but only if he/she is an experienced, reputable breeder. You will also need to get Molly eye-tested to ensure she is clear of the hereditary disease PRA & check any stud dog you choose is also tested. Testing cannot be carried out by your own vet but by a specialist - more details here : www.thecockerspanielclub.co.uk/health.htm (http://www.thecockerspanielclub.co.uk/health.htm)
If you need any more info, just ask :)
Jane
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Hi Tooters, I second all that Jane says, but I will also add that breeding has just as much chance of being heartbreakingly unsuccessful as it has of being a happy occasion. It can also be outrageously expensive if things don't quite go to plan. I say leave breeding to the experienced breeders & just love Molly as she is which I'm sure you do.
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And then there's whether you could cope with dogs/pups being returned if owners have problems rather than passed around the free ads.
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Hi Tooters, I don't want to dishearten you but I would leave the breeding to the experts. There are so many things during pregnancy & birth that can go wrong. My Mum (experienced breeder of Shih Tzu's) had to hand rear her last litter of 5 as their Mums womb ruptured, had to be removed and then she rejected the babies. To say my Mum was like a walking zombie would be an understatement. Her life went on hold for at least 7 weeks.
Samantha x
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My grandfather bred cockers but I have no desire to do so.
You have to be able to deal with every possibility to do it properly (no pups, death of the mother, illness, rehoming, taking back pups that haven't worked out in their new home, etc.). Those that breed just one litter don't always do it for the right reasons (don't want anyone jumping on my back for this one) as the reasons for doing so aren't often in the best interests for the breed. Its OK saying but someone's got to start somewhere but if they start with e.g. cuteness or she's a lovely dog then that's hardly the basis to breed. I believe that if someone does this they do it seriously and not half-heartedly.
There's an ad in my local free paper from someone desparate to find a stud dog for their cocker, which says it all.
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Penny's right - you have to go into breeding for the right reasons and armed with as much information as possible. Everybody does have to start somewhere - there is no history of dog breeding in my family or Andrew's but when we started, we read everything we could lay our hands on about Cockers & breeding & also had what the Americans would call a "mentor", someone with years of experience in Cockers, who advised us & stopped us making what could have been a disastrous choice of stud dog. Many owners who think it would be a good idea to have a litter from their pet Cocker don't realise that it's not just a matter of finding any old male Cocker to use at stud, it has to be the right one. I had an email the other day who wanted a stud dog NOW for her Working Cocker bitch & it was obvious she would have accepted any dog as long as he could do the business :(
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I can only echo what Jane and the others have said. I agree we all have to start somewhere and as someone going into breeding for the first time I can only say that I would not be doing this without the help of my "Mentor" :wink: who has immense experience and who is guiding me along the right path. I am going into this with my eyes wide open and have thought long and hard about the implications. I also think it is important (for me anyway) to do things "by the book". Butty will be having all the relevant health screening etc, and so will the stud dog that I use :wink: I hasten to add that If I had been told that Butty was not ideal for breeding then I would not be doing it in the 1st place. There is so much more to breeding than putting any dog and bitch together.
I can't stress enough the importance of having someone who really does know what they are talking about guiding you and helping you make the right decisions :)
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after owning quite a few cockers we decided that we would like a litter so we have all beed reading as much as possible my freind breeds corgis i know its not the same as a cocker but im sure she has a good idea of what to exspect :P although there are different things we need to find out about breeding cockers quite often ill ask on here or ill come across what i need on the web . things like never breeding partis with solids . hopefuly when were ready it will go smoothly :) we dont feel like just jumping in then thinking what went wrong :? as for finding a good stud dog we shall ask the breeder see what she has to say :) i know exactly what your saying about the stud dog , some people dont read anything and just asume its a male that will do :roll:
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Can I ask what motivates you, Gilly, and the others who are considering breeding?
I'd be interested to know, I couldn't stand the work involved.
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What motivates me is to be able to produce, happy, healthy puppies that are a good example of the breed. I will be keeping one puppy for myself which I hope to be able to show, although there are no guarantees obviously :wink: I want to be proud of the puppies I produce, and first and foremost I want them to be happy, healthy and have excellent temperaments, which I am sure they will have as Butty has a lovely temperamant and so does the stud dog I have chosen when the time comes :) I am also happy to say that I have 100% committment from my husband, family and friends to :)
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My god :( - sorry, couldn't find a smilie for bashing my head against a wall......
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I hasten to add Nicole that my reasoning isn't anything like yours i'm afraid :)
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Nicole, I think your vet is seriously out of date with his advice :shock: Breeding a litter to reduce the chances of mammary cancer is not a good enough reason to breed (even if it was true). You'd be better off getting Bella spayed if this was the main motivation behind you deciding to have a litter. Bitches that have had litters can & do get mammary tumours I'm afraid.
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i couldent sum it up any better then gilly really , we were going to buy another cocker but My vet nasty as he gave us the advice to let her have a litter our last two bitches never had a litter and died of breast cancer ,and he said they have less chances of it if they have a litter. so we thought mabe we would look into it ,we werent really thinking of having one.
I'm sorry I have to say this but is that really a reason to breed dogs. I think you were very unlucky to have 2 dogs die of breast cancer, just as I was unlucky to have 2 cats die of FIP and a cocker pup with an extremely rare form of cancer.
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right so im wrong for wanting to breed a decent litter and looking into it so much, your right i havent got a good enough reason i should leave it to you experts in the feild sorry
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Just wanted to add as a bit of evedence really, that my rescue german shepherd that had been used for breeding before I got her, died of a mammory tumor :( at the age of 7 :cry: So as you can see Nicole, its not as your vet said :? I would say that this can happen to both bred and unbred dogs :cry: I would certainly not use breeding as a way of trying to reduce the chances of an illness :roll: As there are other things that can happen to your dog by not getting them speyed :roll: You really need to take some informed advice before making any decisions :)
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Nicole, we were all reacting to the wrong advice you have been given by your vet and saying that what he told you was not a good enough reason to breed. You have criticised your vet yourself in previous posts as I remember :? No-one has attacked you personally or been rude. Whether you decide to continue posting or not is entirely up to you, but please don't delete posts on existing threads - the thread ends up making no sense at all & information that could be useful to other members is lost.
Jane
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I think that in this case Nicole thought that she was acting in the best interest of her dog and and thought that her vets advise was the right way to go.
I feel so sorry if Nicole has taken offence to any of the comments which i think were intended more for Nicoles vet than for Nicole.
This site is so beneficial to others thinking of breeding, as myths like the statement given by Nicoles vet can now be dispelled by others with the same theory.
I've learnt a valuable lesson from this thread - Vets do not know every thing!!!!!!!!!!
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My god :( - sorry, couldn't find a smilie for bashing my head against a wall......
if that's not rude i don't know what is , the reaction could have been put a little nicer ,there are plently of proper replies on those threads. ive decided not to stay on , i shall devote my time to the rescue site hopefully padfoot will pass any relevant info about cockers on . c ya girls and hugs to stu and mike :)
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My god :( - sorry, couldn't find a smilie for bashing my head against a wall......
if that's not rude i don't know what is , the reaction could have been put a little nicer ,there are plently of proper replies on those threads. ive decided not to stay on , i shall devote my time to the rescue site hopefully padfoot will pass any relevant info about cockers on . c ya girls and hugs to stu and mike :)
I read Hel's comment at being aimed at your vet's advice - it's not the first time vets have encouraged owners to breed for the wrong reasons, hence Hel's remark. I'm sorry you feel you have to leave this site over a misunderstanding. You will find misunderstandings happen whatever forum you belong to but it's your decision as I said before.
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I read Hel's comment at being aimed at your vet's advice - it's not the first time vets have encouraged owners to breed for the wrong reasons, hence Hel's remark. I'm sorry you feel you have to leave this site over a misunderstanding. You will find misunderstandings happen whatever forum you belong to but it's your decision as I said before.
I agree and COL is one of the least controversial sites I know, as other sites can get a lot more heated in comparison.
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I didn't realise Nicole had left the site, we were in contact earlier about some rescue cockers and she didn't mention it :(
If you are still lurking Nicole this sounds like a simple misunderstanding, I'm sure no one wants you to leave.
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my reason for breeding my bitch is :she has an excellent temprement and a fanstastic pedigree,it would be a waste for her not to pass this on.she is fom excellent working stock,i think if we all felt that breeding is only suitable for experienced breeders then cockers would surely go out of circulation,after all dogs have been breeding themselves for years and years without any expert advise.yes i do think you should conssider the expence of it all.i got excellent advise form my bitches vet and also from the stud dog owner.if it doesnt work out with my bitch then i will not mate her again,she is a pet and avalued member of our family. :o
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i dont think it was very nice to have a go like you did,she was just asking for advise everyone has different ideas of what is right and what is wrong i have a book by a breeder of cocker spaniels whom clearly stated that he had a bad line of cockers and the only way to eradicate them was to continue breeding untill there was no trace left of the prblem in the first place,vets say that having your dog newterd or spayed calms them down,i know lots of people have done this and there dogs have become aggressive,yet peole i know have had no problems after having theres done so you see who is right and who is wrong :?:
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Jacquie,
Could I kindly ask you to start another thread regarding this subject...I don't feel it's relevant to resurrect a thread that ended in March.
Thank you :)
Gilly (Moderator)
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i dont think it was very nice to have a go like you did,she was just asking for advise everyone has different ideas of what is right and what is wrong i have a book by a breeder of cocker spaniels whom clearly stated that he had a bad line of cockers and the only way to eradicate them was to continue breeding untill there was no trace left of the prblem in the first place,vets say that having your dog newterd or spayed calms them down,i know lots of people have done this and there dogs have become aggressive,yet peole i know have had no problems after having theres done so you see who is right and who is wrong :?:
When they state 'bad line' what do they mean as surely if you have dogs that have certain health defects they shouldn't be bred from as their pups may also suffer from similar defects which in my mind it is cruel to perpetuate a health defect that would cause suffering to the animal and distress and financial hardship to the owner. Breeding should really only be done from healthy animals.
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I'm locking this thread now - Jaquie if you want to start another discussion on responsible breeding then please do so but please could you not keep resurrecting old threads.
Thank you
Jane