CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: alfieandco on November 08, 2004, 10:39:18 AM
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We got our new cocker pup Alfie, 2 weeks ago from very good breeder. He growls at strangers, particularly men, but this is just nerves on his behalf so I am not worried about that.
My main problem is he goes for my 22 mth daughter, not every day, but he has just tried to bite her and she was only stroking his leg. He wasn't asleep and was just sat at my feet. Will his behaviour improve as he gets used to her ? He doesn't go for anyone else in the family.
What is the best way to deal with the situation at the time ? I shouted at him and put him outside - will this work ?
Any help would be appreciated
thanks
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I doubt if he's "going" for the baby - rather just playing in the only way pups know how to play. Pups play rough and tumble with lots of nipping going on. Its hard for adults to cope with - a child wont stand a chance as it will be only natural for the child to wave arms and legs during playing inviting nipping.
If you look through the puppy forum you will find a load of posts about puppies biting and there is a load of advice there. Look for the posts from Rusty - excellent advice given.
Shouting at him will only confuse him for as far as he knows he is playing - its normal puppy behaviour. I dont have children but I wouldnt let a young child down to the same level as the pup. Neighbours children came into see my Alfie as a very young pup and ended up being nipped because they couldnt understand that waving arms and legs are a great invition to play. Now at six months I let children play with him as the nipping stage is over
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Could you clarify how old your puppy is? From your post, I assumed a young puppy but it says 7 months old in the title? If he's this old, do you know what kind of experience he has had with children before? Older puppies that have not been socialised with very young children can find them very confusing & indeed frightening. As you say he is nervous with strangers, I'm wondering whether his reaction to your baby is based on fear. Have you contacted his breeder for advice? A good breeder would want to know immediately if you were experiencing problems so they can help you find a solution/give advice etc. Sorry about all the questions but it's best to find out as much as possible before giving you too much advice which may not be appropriate.
Jane
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I know what you are saying but she was sitting next to him quietly, just stroking him, no waving of arms and legs.. He growled and went to bite her hand. He is 7 mths and is very soft mouth when playing rough. I do feel it is more than puppy play because my 6 yr old plays with him no problem.
I will go and look for the other posts and read up...
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He was going to be a show dog, but has grown too big. He has not had experience of little kids, as was in kennels at night, house in the day. I am very strict with my daughter making sure she doesn't hassle him too much. 95% of the time he loves her and licks her hand and feet. But it was today that I was concerned about..
thanks
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Like Jane I am wondering if he is finding your little one a little daunting - toddlers are so unpredictable and they move very differently to older children - Dogs are big on watching body language and her body movements will be more jolty and erratic than an older child or adult. Young children also look directly into a dogs eyes - this can make them nervous as well. He will need to learn that your daughter doesn't mean any harm. If he is ok most of the time - I would start encouraging that good things happen when she is around - treats, fuss etc I am sure all the interactions are supervised anyway - make sure that she doesn't do anything to confirm his reluctance. Start of slowly and go at his pace - let him approach her if possible and not the other way round. His growling could be telling you - hey I'm not comfortable with this - I need a bit of space. I would definately speak to the breeder - she is the one that knows him best and you can hopefully get over this together.
Have a look at this site - it tells you some ways that a dog can tell you that it is starting to feel stressed out : Calming signals (http://www.behaviour-problems.freeserve.co.uk/2/Commun/calm.htm)
Please make sure that your daughter never corners him or puts him in a postion that he cannot escape from!! Does he have a safe haven to call his own when he needs time-out from everything? This area should be completely out of bounds to your children - we use dog crates at home for this.
I know when children stroke my dogs they automatically stroke the tops of the heads and pull hands away - I always ask they tickle their chest or tummy - then Brogan and Bailey can see what it happening and their are no sudden surprises. Approaching a dogs side is also less stressful than directly in front. I also ask children to look at their feet to stop them staringat the dog.
Might be completely wrong with my interpretation - wish you good luck! :)
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My apologies, I missed the 7 month old bit and assumed you were talking about a younger pup.
The only experience I have had with an older cocker going for a child was when my last boy went for my step daughter. But she was tormenting the life out of him at the time and wouldnt be warned.
So I shall step aside and let others with more experience advise
Good luck
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When I got Penny my youngest child was 4yrs old. I told all 3 children not to torment Penny and to give her own space at times, especially if she was resting. My youngest son was always trying to love Penny and he used to hang onto her round her body or neck in an affectionate embrace, but she didn't like it and would growl at him. I used to tell her off to show it was unacceptable to growl at family members and I would tell him off for not giving Penny her space. It took 6- 12 mths to stop it. I believe it took so long because my son was too young. I do know that she loves him the best now out of all 3 children. My friend is also having a similar experience at present, she has a 3yr old daughter and a 5th old male cocker (who only growls at her, like Penny did with my youngest.)
I also wondered if this was a pack thing, I wondered if Penny thought she was higher than she was in the pecking order, as she would never challenge the 2 older children or my self or my husband. She was and still is far to submissive for that.
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i have a 13 week old cocker and she dose this as a form of playing as they think that they are there litter brother, so try not to get cross with your pup try to get your little girl to play tug with a tug rope or ball. it will get better.
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;)
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so try not to get cross with your pup try to get your little girl to play tug with a tug rope or ball. it will get better.
I'm sorry Amanda I have to disagree with this comment. I think playing tug is one of the worse things to do as this type of game always hypes a dog up and could possibly make the situation worse.
I would suggest involving your daughter by giving treats after short training sessions is a better way to promote her status with the puppy.
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I think playing tug is one of the worse things to do as this type of game always hypes a dog up and could possibly make the situation worse.
I agree; tug games are banned from our house; both because I may want to *work* Molo, and was advised that this type of game should be avoided, but mainly because of our young daughter; Molo is learning that anyone can always take anything that he has hold off when they ask for it.
It may take a long time for Alfie and your daughter to fully integrate - my two are still learning 4 months on...but day by day it gets better - I think the trick is not to get to stressed about it as they will both sense that :rolleyes:
Good luck!
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so try not to get cross with your pup try to get your little girl to play tug with a tug rope or ball. it will get better.
I'm sorry Amanda I have to disagree with this comment. I think playing tug is one of the worse things to do as this type of game always hypes a dog up and could possibly make the situation worse.
I would suggest involving your daughter by giving treats after short training sessions is a better way to promote her status with the puppy.
I agree entirely with Michele. The last type of play you should look at is anything remotely competitive or aggresive it will add to his confusion and will biuld up lots of trouble for later years let alone the immediate future. I saw this in my own parents dogs.
Do have a look at the forum FAQ's there's a thread on playbiting - you'll get some relevant info'n from that.
A wee toddler and a puppy is a recipe for diaster unless it's handled well. Handled well they can become firm friends. Your puppy is already older than the ideal age and so will need longer to settle in and get used to his new environment and experiences.
Patience, understanding and constant watching is what you need to do. Be firm with both the puppy and your daughter. She must understand when to leave him alone and he that putting his teeth/mouth on her or anyone else is a no no - no exceptions - ever!
Let your daughter put your puppy's food down and do things for him, that way he'll start to see her as being responsible for him. Always with you there of course ;)
hth
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:D
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Yes I also think games of tug etc. can bring out the worst in dogs if not handled properly. As a pup Ruby would get so hyped up that she'd bite my hand in excitement. My dog trainer told me to always win (as she was so confident) and your little girl would find it difficult at her age to win a tug of war with a young cocker. Retrieving ball games may be better as there's no real physical contact (I found retrieving with a number of balls works best to keep the momentum going).
At 7 months cockers are beginning to go into adolescence which can bring up all sorts of challenging behaviour. Mild mannered Wilf now 17 months took up mouthing again during his kevin phase, which can happen at this age and if not kept in check can still hurt even if the dog doesn't actually bite.
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Thanks everyone, he has been a lot better the last few days, I have really been strict with my daughter about pestering him and he has not growled for 3 days now (at least not at her !! LOL)
I think he is becoming a lot more tolerant of her which is good.
Thanks for all your comments and helpful tips and I will let you know if there are any more problems,
:)
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Hi i'm sorry if some of you didn't like what i said about tug game's but i have three young children and three cocker's and thay have all played tug with my dog's and not yet has one off then been aggresive. When i went to puppy class with molly and lennox this is what i was told to do as puppies have to play to learn and bond with it new family.Just playing ball get boring.We was also told that my childern should brush them and help in all the ways thay can. We played lots of games with my dogs but some was to hard for my little girl at first, when i say tug i don't meen bit this not me with the children it was more a walk game as the dog would have one end and the kid's would have the other when the child stopped the dog would pull .All dogs like to have thing in thier mouth.
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Hi i'm sorry if some of you didn't like what i said about tug game's but i have three young children and three cocker's and thay have all played tug with my dog's and not yet has one off then been aggresive. When i went to puppy class with molly and lennox this is what i was told to do as puppies have to play to learn and bond with it new family.Just playing ball get boring.We was also told that my childern should brush them and help in all the ways thay can. We played lots of games with my dogs but some was to hard for my little girl at first, when i say tug i don't meen bit this not me with the children it was more a walk game as the dog would have one end and the kid's would have the other when the child stopped the dog would pull .All dogs like to have thing in thier mouth.
I think we were only saying this Amanda as overconfident dogs can get aggressive with this game which is my own experience and my dog trainers and its in the Gwen Bailey Perfect Puppy book. It doesn't happen with all dogs though as it hasn't with yours (but you've not experienced any problems with aggression anyway before) but in some instances where a dog has shown aggression its often best to stear away from this game as its very competitive in some dogs.
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Hi Penny i know what you are saying.thank for the post back.