CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: Barry Sharpe on December 17, 2002, 03:24:37 PM
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Hi Guy's
Sorry for not being around but my work has taken over these last few month's.
I have a problem, george how golden Cocker has taken to biting. he is now 8 month's old. This started on a particularly troublesome day we were having with him. I through this forum already new about his teenage tendancies and just gave him a little more lenency than ushal.
Anyway on to the problem. George had manged to get hold of a sponge that he should not have had. he immediatly run for the bed and got under it with said sponge in mouth. Without even thinking i got my arm under the bed and took the sponge out of his mouth. Next thing growles were heard and he attacked my hand he even drew blood. I manged to get hold of him and said firmly NO! then NO! again he left the room still growling. All that day he was at odds if i even went near him he growled. The next day he was better but from hear on in he growls sometimes without provocation. If he gets himself into a corner when he has something in his mounth he growls. This has caused hesitation amongst steph our 14 year old girl and my wife who now seem wary of him. To be honest even i think twice now before getting something out of his mouth.
He was at training classes but the people who ran it have now stopped. So we are in the middle of finding another class for him. but i must admit to being at a loss as to how to regain his confidence in me and to stop him growling.
Ideas would be most wellcome
Best
Barry
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Hi Barry good to see you again :)
I'm no expert at things like this but my dog trainer always says you should never just take something from a dog, you should teach them to "give" it to you. If you just take something you can inadvertantly teach them to guard things.
I started to do this by calling Poppy to me in a happy, cheerful voice (you can fake cheerful whilst gritting your teeth ;)) and having a treat in one hand (or something that the dog would want more than whatever it is they've got) and show the dog the treat and get them to focus on that. As you take the thing from the dog with the other hand say "give" and as you are taking it give them the treat and praise them in a happy voice. You are aiming to reward the dog for giving something to you.
My dog quite quickly realised that "giving" something to me when I tell her brings a reward and usually gives things back no problem.
Hope this helps, sounds like George is hitting the teenage stage - poor you :)
Fiona
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Thanks fiona,
That is a great help. it seems so simple but i was definatly at a loss as to what to do. typical male really go in full on without even thinking what george thinks about this big hand comming at him. The funny thing is i new it was the wrong approach the momment i did it. but still did it anyway should have figured the reult really. Hopefully i have done no permanent dammage.
Thank again Fiona :)
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Barry I'm sure you won't have done any permanent damage :)
I definitely found the best way for me to handle Poppy is to pretend I'm cheerful (even if I'm furious) and coax her into doing what I want her to do rather than confronting her.
Sometimes it feels good to get one over on her, even if she doesn't realise it ;D
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Nice to see you back Barry :) What a shame your training classes finished - they sounded so well-run & adolescence is often the time you need them most so I hope you find another trainer soon. I agree with Fiona's advice - far better to train George to give "trophies" up to you than to confront him. Sounds like his confidence in you has been shaken as well as yours in him. I'm sure it's not permanent though & with a little work, you can get over this. Good luck!
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Just another thought Barry
You can practice "give" with George's toys. When he's nice and relaxed and playing with something tell him to give it to you, then spend a few seconds inspecting it and then give it back to him. This will help him realise that you aren't a threat and won't always confiscate things forever :)
Fiona
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Thanks Jane for the welcome, we have started immediatly on the give a treat for the sponge, stick, wallpaper, combs, brushes, pencils, pens, magazines, and just about anything else that fits in his mounth ::)
His tummy is already getting fat, we are treating him with those James Wellbeloved craker thingys, but i am already seeing him look around for things to swap for his favorite treat :-
However the tension has dropped dramatically i now don't even get a chance to say leave or give before he is sitting in front of my madly shaking whatever is in his mouth out for the reward ???
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Glad to hear that things have calmed down a bit Barry. I would have sugested the same thing if I hadn't been away. A friend of mine has a dog that brings a toy to you whenever we go round. :D I have not quite got Cooper to that stage yet :) but he will gladly give things up for a treat.
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A friend of mine has a dog that brings a toy to you whenever we go round.
Is your friend's dog a Springer by any chance? That's a well-known Springer trait, and mine does it without fail - always accompanied by a bum wiggle :D
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A friend of mine has a dog that brings a toy to you whenever we go round.
Is your friend's dog a Springer by any chance? That's a well-known Springer trait, and mine does it without fail - always accompanied by a bum wiggle
My Poppy does that too :) Whenever we have been out or someone comes round she grabs a toy and brings it. She always has the bum-wiggle and makes a funny excited snorting sound :)
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I've heard of some cockers that do it... sadly, mine doesnt :'(
Although she has that 'funny excited snorting sound' down to a tee ;D
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Hi all
It's so funny to hear about the antics of other people's dogs. Morgan also feels that he has to bring you a "gift" whenever you return home ;D. I have only ever had one dog before (Old English) and that was a long time ago so I always wonder if Morgans strange habits are unique to cockers or do all dogs do the same things?
Shirl
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Just catching up on the topics and I have to say Phoebe does the bringing of a toy (normally the toy bunny) complete with bum wiggle and snorts. ;D
I thought it was just her.
She does it whether you've been away five minutes or an hour.
I agree with the treat approach. I've used this since we got her and she's been so easy to train. Hopefully it will still work through the teenage moments.
Anita
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George has got some what better since the advice. But i was reading through a Book Called "The Dog listener". She says i should ignore this behaviour and only have george approach me on certain terms. Although i find the book interesting it is only the first few chapters that are any good as for advice. The rest of the book is based on brief case histories with no relevent information, i got a bit bored with the book. However the first few chapters were informative just could not see where the rest of this book was heading?
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A friend of mine has a dog that brings a toy to you whenever we go round.
Is your friend's dog a Springer by any chance? That's a well-known Springer trait, and mine does it without fail - always accompanied by a bum wiggle :D
No she's a Labrador Mike
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Generally that book is quite well received, Barry - if it is the one by Jan Fennell, who also did the tv show of the same name? I meant to buy it a couple of years ago, and it wasnt in stock in the bookshop so I came home with one called The Dog Whisperer - a non-violent approach to dog training. Suffice to say there were of course SOME valuable elements, but it wasnt so good on the practical elements of what to do if your dog exhibits such and such a (problem) behaviour. It was a bit too conceptual for me, even spiritual in some parts - in a dog book!
The information provided in books is a bit static for me, give me an interactive forum like this anyday :)
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I agree Mike,
I think the books initial chapters were OK. good advice with regards to her 5 rules. But then followed story after story of different dogs and thier problems sure enough she cleared them up but i was left thinking in each of the stories. So how did you do that then? their was huge caps each case study being just a couple of chapters long.
I was not all that impressed with the book, i would have prefered to have seen things like if your dog does this then you should do that. Instead of a brief decription of the problem and then some wishywashy thoughts on how long it took her to stop the dog doing the things it was doing. The thing is the author is persistent in saying throughout the book that the way to handle dogs in the authors fashion took many tiny adjustments in her attidude to that dog, but no where does she record those adjustments. Left me ???
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I wasn't too impressed with "The Dog Whisperer" either - there is some good stuff in there but nothing that can't be found in better books by the likes of John Fisher or Dr Dunbar. I don't like her "one size fits all" approach to everything - training methods that might work well with one breed won't necessarily work well with another but Ms Fennell does not address this in her book. When she did a TV series a while ago on C5, some of the owners confessed afterwards that her methods had not worked for them at all (Border Collie & Westie owners as I recall) The books have been phenomenally successful - a brilliant marketing exercise for all concerned ;D
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If some of her methods didnt always work but we were lead to believe they did... well, thats a bit of a swizz, isnt it! :(
I think books such as The Dog Listener only deal with fundamentals - they educate you into understanding a little how a dog may think, and/or how to adjust your own behaviour in order to change your dog's... but if the problem(s) run a little deeper, or other variables are involved (such as differences in breeds) that dont permit their suggested techniques to work, then they wont provide all the answers.
I guess thats proven by the fact that we still felt the need to seek out an informative interactive website such as this one :D