CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: Robbie34 on January 16, 2012, 05:47:10 PM
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Poor old Charley will be fourteen next week, and he is becoming a bit of a handful to look after. He has been blind and deaf for some time now and coped reasonably well. Unfortunately, he has now become incontinent, and it's getting me down a bit. Yesterday he was eating his dinner and weeing at the same time. He has been doing this quite frequently and I'm a bit concerned. It seems to be due to old age and senility: he often seems not to know where he is at times.
Has anyone else had an old Cocker and dealt with this? My last Cocker was fifteen when he passed away, and although he was a tad senile his toilet habits were quite manageable.
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So sorry Charlie is not doing so well, I have no advice Robbie but just wanted to I am thinking of you.
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Sending you both lots of caring thoughts :bigarmhug:
You know your boy the best Robbie but could he have a bit of an infection at all, that is making his continence a little worse at the mo, or is it part of a slow decline that your noticing?
Feel for you right now, as it must be very saddening to see age catching up with your special old boy :'(
:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :-*
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I had a similar situation with my first Cocker, Josh, so I understand why it's getting you down Robbie :bigarmhug:
Josh started to go deaf when he was about 9 or 10, then started to lose his sight when about 12. Eventually he was blind and deaf but, like Charley, coped pretty well. He still enjoyed his food, cuddles, saying hello to other dogs and going for short walks in the New Forest.
Later he became mildly bladder incontinent when sleeping, but was fine when awake. He also started to get a bit senile, taking a while to realise where he was when waking up. Once awake he was usually OK but had a few distressing times where he'd wander in circles or just stand still, wagging his tail forlornly. He was prescribed Vivitonin http://www.buyvivitonin.co.uk/ and that helped.
I don't know what to suggest about the incontinence, but perhaps Vivitonin could help to perk Charley up generally. I really feel for you Robbie, it's so sad seeing old age catching up with them :-* :bigarmhug:
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I don't have any advice or experience of this but just wanted to say I feel for you and send you some :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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I too have no advice or experience but also wanted to send you lots of hugs :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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So sorry for you both. :'( Charlie is one of my favourite oldies :luv:
Just wondered if these would help a little on the practical side.
http://www.dog-nappy.co.uk/
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Robbie I know exactly what you are going through at the moment, so I'm sending you a :bigarmhug:
Charlie may not be incontinent it might be a water infection, so it might be worth taking a sample along to the vets. Chester my old CKCS who was nearly 15 (sadly no longer with us) suffered from incontinence from when he was about 12 and was on Incurin for this, but last October he had the same problem as Charlie and I feared the worst but he had a really nasty water infection that took a while to clear with antibiotics. He was put onto a supplement called Aktivait to help with his senility at around the same time and I think it did improve his awareness.
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Robbie I know exactly what you are going through at the moment, so I'm sending you a :bigarmhug:
Charlie may not be incontinent it might be a water infection, so it might be worth taking a sample along to the vets. Chester my old CKCS who was nearly 15 (sadly no longer with us) suffered from incontinence from when he was about 12 and was on Incurin for this, but last October he had the same problem as Charlie and I feared the worst but he had a really nasty water infection that took a while to clear with antibiotics. He was put onto a supplement called Aktivait to help with his senility at around the same time and I think it did improve his awareness.
I was wondering just the same .....
Hugs to you both - it is so hard to see our oldies beginning to struggle :bigarmhug:
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Just sending these to you both x x x
:bigarmhug: :luv: :bigarmhug: :luv: :bigarmhug: :luv: :bigarmhug: :luv: :bigarmhug:
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Sorry to hear Charley is having a hard time. No advice as ours are young just sending you both a big hug. :bigarmhug:
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Just sending these to you both x x x
:bigarmhug: :luv: :bigarmhug: :luv: :bigarmhug: :luv: :bigarmhug: :luv: :bigarmhug:
Lots of these from me also :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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:bigarmhug: to you and Charley. It's tough.
Have had 2 dogs that became senile. Our springer would wake up in the middle of the night barking. She continually looked for her water bowl in the opposite corner to where it had been kept for years. She went in the opposite direction when recalled because she got so confused. Poor lass. She was stone deaf but coped well with hand signals. Our lab was similar, but went blind as well as deaf. For her we made the decision when I had to start lifting her out of her bed and onto her feet in the mornings. She was OK once up, but she was ready to go in the end. I never had to deal with incontinence, so try all the suggestions as it could be something that is curable. You will know when its time. :bigarmhug:
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Also no advice, but wanted to send you our thoughts- he's a lucky boy to have such a caring owner :bigarmhug:
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No advice, just sending :bigarmhug:
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I am so sorry Robbie to hear about poor Charlie :'( it is so very hard to see our much loved elderly dogs declining :'(
Our goldie started being unable to hold his poops when he reached 13 yrs old, it used to distress him so much :'( on top of which his back legs were getting weaker &
weaker. :'(
It is def. worth checking that Charlie hasn't got a urine infection though :shades:
My thoughts are with you & Charlie :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: Please stay strong for him :luv:
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I'm so sorry you are both experiencing this. :bigarmhug:
No real advice other than urine infection.
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Awww, try not to let it get you down too much. I don't have any first hand experience of an incontinent dog but recently, a lady I know with an elderly dog, had the same problem as you. She looked absolutely exhausted (the lady) and was using incontinence pads on her dog. I saw her again a few weeks later and the vet had prescribed some drug (can't remember the name) and she had made a massive improvement and didn't need the pads anymore. I'm sure your vet can help make things a little easier for both of you. Good luck to you and dear Charlie :luv:
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We had a poodle when we were growing up and she had PRA and went completely blind at 9 yrs old, her hearing wasn't too bad but when she hit 15 yrs she started pooping in the house. It was very distressing for her (she was previously extremely clean despite her blindness) and not exactly pleasant for us. After a while of it not getting any better my mum took her to the vets where they diagnosed bowel cancer and a bad heart. My mum decided to have her pts on that visit. It was very sad and we were all lost without her.
Thinking of you both. :-\
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Sorry, no advice but lots of :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:for you both
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:bigarmhug:'s Robbie, can imagine how hard you must be finding it at the moment. Charlie is such a sweetheart :luv: I would definitely get him checked out at the vets in case there is something thats caused the change rather than his age.
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Sending you both big hugs.
:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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Hello Robbie 34,
I've just seen your post about Charley and his continence problem. My last cocker, Bertie, was incontinent for both poo and wee for the last 2 of his 14 years. The wee was by far the bigger problem to manage but I discovered the Dog Nappy co. who make 'nappies' (I called them shorts) designed to hold continence pads. Bertie took to the shorts from day one, he had a fantastic quality of life with using them including continuing to sleep on the bed!
I tried a variety of pads, the 'for men' type proved the most effective. It was a challenge and not cheap but worth it to have him for as long as I did.
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:bigarmhug: to you and Charlie
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I really feel for you and Charlie :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: He's such a lovely old boy :luv: I hope the vet finds the cause and cures it.
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Our rescue had an elderly springer a couple of years ago - he was found on a cliff edge where someone had obviously left him to perish.......our vet reckoned he was between 12-14 years old and he was in pretty bad shape including incontinence and a bladder infection. Lucky for him he found a fabulous foster carer for his last year and I know she used the pads with great success. He was truly a different dog so I think a vet visit would be good as well :shades: thinking of you both. :bigarmhug:
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Do hope the vet can help to give your Charlie a little more quality in his declining years.
But.... I'm afraid you really must think are you doing all this for yourself or Charlie. Dogs need dignity too.
I really do hope you have a little more time with him.
Eve x
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Many thanks for your kind thoughts and advice. Charley has control but is not "asking" to go out. He made a small mess in the lounge this morning after going in the garden where he only wee'd. He has always been a very clean dog, even when on one occasion he had the runs and woke me to take him in the garden. The cause is clearly senility.
I can put up with it because he still enjoys going out for walks and going in the car with Henry and me. He is also eating well.
I'll contact the vet and see about Vivitonin.
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Hi Robbie
Chester was exactly the same as Charley, he had control but wouldn't ask to go out or would go to the wrong door. When I let him out of the back door (his usual door) he would go for a wee and come in and have a poo on the kitchen floor, he seemed to forget that he needed a poo. At times he would stand on the lawn and look quite lost, it was quite distressing to watch. The vet recommended Vivitonin, which unfortunately didn't improve things for him so we then tried Aktivait. After a few weeks he was more alert and generally more aware of things occassionally he did have the odd accident but not as many.
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Hi Robbie
Chester was exactly the same as Charley, he had control but wouldn't ask to go out or would go to the wrong door. When I let him out of the back door (his usual door) he would go for a wee and come in and have a poo on the kitchen floor, he seemed to forget that he needed a poo. At times he would stand on the lawn and look quite lost, it was quite distressing to watch. The vet recommended Vivitonin, which unfortunately didn't improve things for him so we then tried Aktivait. After a few weeks he was more alert and generally more aware of things occassionally he did have the odd accident but not as many.
You have described Charley to a T. He wanders aimlessly around the lounge as well as in the garden. I wouldn't dream of having him PTS unless his quality of life was poor. At the moment he gets excited when we are going out either for walks or in the car. I've no idea how he knows, being deaf and blind.
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I am so sorry for you both but glad that giving up isn't an option for you just yet. It must be so upsetting to watch. Bless you both xxx
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No advice but lots of :bigarmhug: for you and Charlie.
It is very difficult to watch our beloved pooches decline in old age.
Here's hoping the vet can offer advice to make him more comfortable in his dotage.
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Robbie
Looking back Chester had been going senile for quite sometime before we really noticed there was a problem It began with pacing at night, at first we thought he just couldn't get a comfy spot but later we noticed him looking lost in the garden and staring into his water bowl for ages. A trip to the vets confirmed that he was going senile. Some days were better than others but the supplement did seem to help him.
Unfortunately in the last few weeks his health began to deteriorate, and his quality of life was poor so we made the heartbreaking decision to have him PTS on Saturday 7th January. He's such a miss and I now realise just how much time I spent caring for him, but I'd like to think he'd had a long and happy life with us, and under the circumstances it was the kindest thing to do.
You will know when it's time to let Charley go in the meantime enjoy your precious time together.
:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: to you both. Wendy xx
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It breaks my heart to read this, my Charlie will be 13y/o in April so far so good he is sleeping a bit more but otherwise doing good for his age. I lost my ESS 2 years ago at 12y/o she started going senile wandering about and toilet in the house also loosing perception of where she was. We made our decision when after a vary bad urinary infection constanly leaked urine no amount of anti biotics seemed to help. Then when her abdomen looked to be very swollen the vet thought she may have a tumour, we decided not to let them take it any further and said a tearfull goodbye to our girl, she was ready to go I saw the look and would have loved to ignore it but knew she deserved better.
Hugs to you both I hope the vet can give Charlie something to help I so know where you are just now, they are never with us long enough I so dread the day when my Charlie starts the downward decline like you I will do whatever I can to keep him healthy and have a good quality of life.
Cathy
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pepper is 15 is deaf can still see ok but is incontinent shes on propalin for the waterworks which helps as its spay incontinence and shes now faecally incontinant as shes had 2 big strokes affecting her back end. shes still happy scoffing her grub and playful. she is a sprocker however and they will run til they die. they dont really stop being pups, very hard work. anyway I crate her in a large crate 36 x 24 inches roughly and she has a waterproof memory foam mattress from zooplus in there shes as happy as larry. I toilet her regularly after every meal and every hour or so, she has to be walked to get things moving and that helps. when shes not being supervised shes in the crate with toys to chew stuff like kongs pigs ears she chews away contentedly . She doesnt get anything unusual to eat as that will make her movements soft shes on a good quality kibble ( CJS) and her movemnts are firm and easily picked up . the day she doesnt want her grub or is in pain is the day I will let her go. until then we will muddle along. I also have folk who come in and let her out when Im working. shes also on vivatonin.
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I spoke to Charley's vet last night - at her home - and I'm hoping that she will be able to see him on Tuesaday afternoon - I have to 'phone the main branch on Monday morning to arrange this.
Kathryn thinks he may have kidney or liver problems, and he may need blood tests to check this. She said she can also prescribe some thing to increase the blood flow to his brain which may help with his senility. I'll update after Charley has seen the vet.
I have been to an exhibition in Manchester today and took the boys with me in the car. Both had some exercise before I went in, and both were fine when I returned. Charley did not make any mess in the car and was fast asleep when I returned. Drove to a Morrisons supermarket for a bit of shopping and to get some treats for them, which they both enjoyed, before returning home - about a forty-five minute journey - and Charley was no problem.
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Hi Robbie, I'm saddened to read about poor Charley, but so pleased he has such a caring owner!
I hope that your vet can see him and help him gain a little more control / clear headed-ness, for him and for you as it must be horrible to see him so.
lots of :bigarmhug: 's x
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Hi Robbie........Lucy our show cocker lived to the good old age of 16 after two serious pancreatic attacks. She was only ill in the last few weeks before we made the painfull decision to let her go, you do know when the time comes and it is the last kindness that you can do for them as hard as it is. She was followed the following year by our other show cocker Bracken who was 14, he had been having trouble with his back legs and when he could no longer hold himself up and he was showing signs of distress again we knew the time had come.
Bramble & Beri our workers are 5 this year and I am already upset because Beri has to have an op on his leg this week .......time goes so fast. Enjoy your time with Charley and he will tell you when its time :luv: :luv:
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Bless poor Charley - fingers crossed for your consult on Tuesday.
Were you at the caravan show by the way ?
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Thinking of you both :luv:
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Bless poor Charley - fingers crossed for your consult on Tuesday.
Were you at the caravan show by the way ?
Yes, but didn't see anything interesting. It was packed, and glad that I got complimentary tickets. I didn't stay long.
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I took Charley to the vet this afternoon and he was given a thorough examination. He has an enlarged prostate and his heart murmur has worsened, but as he is not coughing Kathryn is not certain if his senility might be caused by his heart not pumping the blood efficiently to his brain. If he goes on Vetmedin he will have to remain on it even if it is not that. Anyway, the upshot is that Charley will go on Vivitonin, and if there is no improvement, to go back and he will be put on Vetmedin.
I'll monitor his progress and see how things go. It's his birthday on Thursday.
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Hope the medication helps Charley. Wishing him a very happy birthday for Thursday.
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Glad you saw the vet, and have a plan in place, hope it helps. :bigarmhug:
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Glad you saw the vet, and have a plan in place, hope it helps. :bigarmhug:
ditto .. lots of :bigarmhug: for both of you - hope it goes well x
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Love and best wishes to you both :luv:
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Hope the medication works for him. Happy Birthday Charley for Thursday :luv:
Angie x
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I hope the Vivitonin helps. When my old boy Josh was on it we used to call it his go faster medicine because it really helped him to be livelier and more aware and with it than he had been for sometime previously.
Happy Birthday for Thursday Charley :luv:
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Hope the meds do the trick for gorgeous Charley.
Happy birthday for Thursday sweetie xx
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I also hope the meds start to work. Hope he has a lovely birthday. :luv:
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Really hope the medication helps. Happy Birthday to Charley for Thursday :luv: :luv:
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Hope the Vivitonin works for Charley, If it doesn't there are other similar meds available and also a special food which may help with his senility. Chester being a CKCS also had a heart problem and was put onto Vetmedin from when he was about 8 years old, it did wonders for him and stayed on it until we lost him at nearly 15. He took it along side the Vivitonin and when that didn't do anything for him we then tried him on Aktivait which did help.
Happy birthday to Charley for tomorrow. :luv:
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Really hope the medication helps. Happy Birthday to Charley for Thursday :luv: :luv:
Ditto
Blue sends an extra special wag & a lick x
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I really of the medication helps Charley. My Charlie was put on Vetmedin 2 years ago now for a grade 4 heart murmur he is doing really well on it at nearly 13y/o Happy birthday to your Charley long may he prosper.
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Charley started on Vivitonin on Tuesday evening after we returned from the vet's. He seems a little improved, and wasn't pacing up and down the lounge as he usually does.
Interestingly, the information given with Vivitonin states that it increases the blood flow to the heart and skeletal muscle as well as to the brain. It also reduces peripheral vascular resistance thus lowering cardiac load. It also suggests that there should be a rationalisation of medicine for dogs already receiving treatment for congestive heart failure.
It is early days yet, but it would seem that Vivitonin will also treat his underlying heart problem.
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Good news :D
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That is really good news your are seeing an improvement already.
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Great news Robbie :shades: :banana:
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Aww that is excellent news :)
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Brilliant news :banana:, please give Charley a gentle squidge from me :luv:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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any update on charlie? the vivatonin really helped pepper. hope it helps him. x
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Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have helped with his senility, and he isn't any livelier. He has been taking these for just over two weeks so I'll just have to wait and see.
He is eating well and gets excited when going out, but I only take him out for a short walk.
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If Vivitonin doesn't help, it might be worth trying Aktivait too which is a nutraceutical (type of food supplement). Aktivait helped my pyrenees enormously when dementia set in.
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You can buy Aktivate online without prescription the vet gave it to me to try with my oldie ESS sadly it didnt work. I hope something manages to help.