Author Topic: Resource aggression in puppies  (Read 2962 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Murphys Law

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1521
  • Gender: Male
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2017, 06:43:46 PM »
Oh I meet loads of Cockers.  Many much more nervous that mine.  On a typical Saturday morning out around hers I may meet a dozen of more.  I can usually tell dogs from bitches as they are walking towards me.

There are rescues, ex puppy-farmed, locally bred workers, show types from all over the country.

As they go, mine is up with the bully-boy workers, but you drop the lid of a poo-bin and he will scream.

What do you mean by bully-boy workers?

Offline bizzylizzy

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4504
  • Gender: Female
  • 🙂 Jayne
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2017, 06:44:15 PM »
Oh I meet loads of Cockers.  Many much more nervous that mine.  On a typical Saturday morning out around hers I may meet a dozen of more.  I can usually tell dogs from bitches as they are walking towards me.

There are rescues, ex puppy-farmed, locally bred workers, show types from all over the country.

As they go, mine is up with the bully-boy workers, but you drop the lid of a poo-bin and he will scream.





It is understandable that rescues and puppy farm dogs are likely to be nervous due to their past experiences but this isn't breed specific. Out of the three dogs I've had (GSD &'GSD mix), Humphrey is by far the most confident, no problems with loud machinery, fireworks or traffic etc. He is exciteable and also sensitive but certainly not nervous and I would interpret the typical  cocker gait (wonderfully described once on here as the "Bustle Trot") tail up, head up, as a visible sign of confidence. I don't think nervousness is typically cocker at all.

Offline Londongirl

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1458
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2017, 07:05:55 PM »
I agree that sensitivity is not the same as nervousness. Henry is very sensitive to being told off - a raised voice puts him immediately on his guard, even with me (and by on guard I mean he backs off a little and gets watchful, prepared in case something unpredictable is about to happen). But he is also as confident and outgoing a dog as you're ever likely to meet. But of course, some ARE nervous, and fearful, for various reasons, none all within our control. It's generalising that isn't very helpful to the OP, I think.
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline Archie bean

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3627
  • Gender: Female
  • Archie. RIP bridge babies Sherwood and Dickon.
    • Emma Graham Harpist
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2017, 10:20:40 PM »
Meanwhile....... ;)

Hi and welcome. I'm so sorry to hear your woes. As others have mentioned I've been in the same position (although I have no children or cats so things were probably easier for me). I'm afraid I am currently in a very busy week with work so I can't give you the best reply but I'll just copy and paste a previous reply on the subject and tweak it a little. Do also look back at my previous posts where you can see how bad things were and how far we have come!


It's great you have a behaviourist helping. It is really important to work out exactly what the root cause is so you can address it. Outside eyes can be useful in spotting things you might miss.
The only experience I have is with Archie so I'm no expert on the issue in broader terms. He has never really guarded his food though so I can't really offer any advice there, but it sounds as though you are doing the right things. Archie didn't have a crate or a pen but I used (and still use) a baby gate to keep him out of harms way when necessary. It's easy to say (but not easy to do, especially when children are involved) but it's vital to try to avoid the situation arising in the first place. Nothing can be left lying around. Using a house line can also be useful to lead him away from sticky situations without going near the bitey end.  ;)  I know how hard it is to live with a guardy dog and anything that can keep the problem at bay while you work on sorting out the cause is a massive help.

The book Mine is an excellent place to start. I agree with not making an issue out of a guarding situation. My experience with Archie (who's root cause was generally nervousness and anxiety, although he would appear to be very full on friendly and confident - essentially over compensating for his issues) is that ANY kind of raised voice or trying to make him understand that what he was doing was unacceptable was absolutely the worst kind of approach. It re-inforced his worries and made him dig in and guard whatever he had even more. There was absolutely NO way I could remove an item from him without risking serious injury. He didn't back down ever and I learned the hard way that he was not bluffing when he threatened to bite me. My approach was actually counter-intuitive in that if he was guarding something I would gently praise him and tell him it was Ok, then walk away. We worked on him fetching things to swap for his favourite biscuit. "Fetch it for a biscuit" became the trigger to make him relax and eventually he learned to swap even the most prized object. It was all based on him learning to willingly GIVE me something I asked for, not me TAKING it from him.

He is now a really reformed character. He is the most loving, cuddly, gorgeous boy. That said, I know that he will always have that side to his character and I always keep an eye out for it. He rarely guards anything from me (but will occasionally push the boundaries if he is at my Mums house) but he does guard his own sick which is utterly charming of him!!!  >:(

It can be hard work but It is possible come out the other side of it.
 :bigarmhug:

Offline Knitwearisforwinners

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2017, 05:02:48 PM »
Thank you so much, everyone, for your responses and time. I will have a look back through relevant posts and read the advice, but I am so grateful for your replies already.

This is honestly one of the hardest things I have EVER had to manage or deal with. I feel like I'm having a breakdown at times, because in the space of an hour I can swing from 'Teddy is wonderful - we can totally do this! Look at how well socialised and trained and fab he is in SO many ways!' to 'I can't do this, Pippin is so unhappy, I'm having to shut my children in one room, Pippin in another and stay near, but not too near Teddy - this is unworkable and unfair'. Does that make any sense? He has spent today growling and barking and snarling whilst guarding first a bone (he doesn't usually guard these), then his sick (delightful!!), and being generally horrid to Pippin. I have been too worried to let anyone but me in the room he is in, because I can approach and lure him away and manage the situation, but cannot let anyone else do the same. Pippin isn't scared of him, but as time goes on, her intense dislike is growing more visible, and I fear for greater confrontations as Teddy gets older. It's just so confusing when a month ago, they played like lunatics all day long.

I think this is the crux of the problem - if it were me and the dogs, I would feel challenged, but capable. With the variables of children and a husband with much less experience of any dog, let alone one as cheeky and challenging as Teddy, I just don't know how to manage the situation. I know I could do this, but is it fair to put my children in the front line whilst I do the necessary work?

I know nobody can answer these questions for me, but it makes the question of what to do SO much harder, because I feel confident I could do this in other circumstances. And how bad is aggression?! I mean, there are definite levels of aggression with Teddy, some with soft and waggy tail and body, but growling and guarding, as though this is just the way he communicates. Then other times, it almost makes my blood run cold with the intent and feeling behind his five-month-old aggression. Have any of you experienced this too?

I know there are no easy answers, but just to be able to share my thoughts and fears and heartache is very valuable, so thank you to anyone who has made it this far!

Offline Londongirl

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1458
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2017, 06:15:55 PM »
This is a heartbreakingly difficult situation, and I have no advice to offer, just the observation that whatever you decide will come from a place of love for all concerned - your family and your pets. That much is clear from what you have posted here.
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline hoover

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2017, 06:36:14 PM »
The vomit guarding is the worst, isn't it.  Ollie once threw up in the back of the car on the beginning of a 7 hour journey from Reading to Glasgow...couldn't get him out of the car and couldn't get near the blanket that the sick was on.  We had to get out of the car, leave him with his vomit for half an hour and then return with a bowl of food to lure him out.

Then other times, it almost makes my blood run cold with the intent and feeling behind his five-month-old aggression. Have any of you experienced this too?


Yes, we know this feeling. It's like the dog has entered another world, where all that matters is their ability to retain whatever they are guarding.  Your blood turns cold because they are suddenly a completely unknown dog to you, prepared to do whatever it takes. Your relationship with them counts for nothing in those seconds - they are lost to the moment.

I've got to say it happens far less often for us now that he is older but that first year was a real trial.  I don't know if neutering would make a difference for you, it certainly did for us.  The frequency of episodes and the ferocity of response really diminished.  I know a lot of people recommend not neutering until more mature which is what we eventually did but I can't help thinking that we might have had an easier time of things earlier on if we had neutered around 6 months.

Offline Ben's mum

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2951
  • Gender: Female
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2017, 06:57:42 PM »
I can sympathise completely, we took Harry on as a rescue at 8 months and he was a guarder. I think life was easier for us as we don't have children, so didn't have them to worry about. Harry was very fearful and reactive to lots of situations for reasons we will never know. He would guard food, socks, toys, and yes sick  :D he also guards me and still does this to a small extent. 

The book Mine was execellent as was the advice and support I got on here. The approach I took was just not to give high value food, no bones or treats unless they were in his bowl , and then he had space and time to eat them in a different room so he wasn't under pressure. No toys left on the floor, and we taught Harry that the fridge held a range of wonderful and amazing things  ;)  if Harry found something to guard like a sock or tea towel and he wouldn't swop, then one of us would go into the kitchen and open the fridge, and wait....  we would just not look at him and what he was guarding and totally ignore what he was doing make sure he heard us rustling in the fridge, he would eventually relax enough to come and into the kitchen and see what was on offer and we would make sure it was good, then while he was having a treat the thing he was guarding would be removed.

We never got into conflict, raised voices etc or did anything to escalate the situation.  I won't lie it has impacted on the way we live our life for example something like a pub meal is a no no as it can be a nightmare if Harry gets guardy over me and my husband when we have food and someone walks near our table.  On the other hand he is a lovely little dog and I adore him and wouldn't change him now for the world. 

It's worth getting good advice from a behaviourist, has anyone recommended Top Barks, where abouts are you?  I do remember thinking wat have we done and feeling conflicted because there were days I wished we had not got a second dog, then other days I knew I could never part with him. He is 8 now and I am glad we stuck with it, he is a joy  :luv:  good luck hope you get the help you need xx

Offline Knitwearisforwinners

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2017, 08:52:58 AM »
I just want to say thank you again for such kind words and support through this awful sad time. I am still so very conflicted, but after having spoken at length with close family and friends yesterday, I think we are coming close to being forced to make the decision to think about rehoming Teddy. I have been in absolute pieces since then, but what it feels as though it boils down to is, either we go back to how things we were, where we know the situation (kids, cats, one dog=harmony) or we continue into what is an entirely unknown situation - nobody knows how Teddy will mature, or how much worse the aggression will become before (and if) it gets better.

I can't believe I am even writing this, as right now he is being an utter delight and is cuddled up with his head resting on my lap asleep, and my heart feels like it is breaking into pieces, but I just don't want him to spend his life having to be crated or in a separate room. And I also feel as though it isn't fair on my children or other pets as, although I really feel Teddy will be a wonderful adult dog (he already is an amazing puppy in so many ways), it doesn't feel that I have the capacity or emotional energy to give him everything he so needs to become that dog. It will take so much (it has already taken so much of my soul to come this far), and it doesn't seem fair to divide the little energy I have so thinly between him and the children, when he needs so much time and love and attention.

I think right now I am struggling because I can't imagine anyone will ever know or love him the way I do, and the thought of him frightened and confused is tearing me apart. But I have to say that hearing stories such as Harry's really gives me hope that there are wonderful people out there who can give him all that he needs and love him as much as I do. Hearing from lovely people on this forum has also helped me believe there might be someone out there for him who can do the work and enjoy years and years of utter joy with Teddy. He is the most beautiful, loving, loyal, trainable, intelligent dog, whom I adore. His recall, tricks, retrieve and off lead work is perfect; he is angel out and about with dogs, children, bikes, horses etc. It just feels too much to handle when we are all indoors and there is a constant need to be vigilant, even though I'm sure that in the grand scale of aggression, his really isn't that high. This is what makes this decision so hard; I don't know what the right thing is to do, I only know that I am exhausted and feel daunted by the work ahead of us.

I'm sorry that I have gone on and on about him here, I just need to share my love for him with people who will understand. If anyone has any advice they could give me for what to do next, if we do have to make the decision I am dreading, I would be so grateful, as ALL that matters to me in this is Teddy's wellbeing and happiness. Thank you for listening x

Offline lescef

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1113
  • Gender: Female
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2017, 09:42:12 AM »
You have to do what's right for you and your family. You have given it lots of thought and it sounds like the stress is telling on you.
I would say that the thinking about it and making the decision is in part the worst bit, a bit like having to make the decision about having a pet PTS where I cry for days. 
If you decide to rehome him Spaniel Aid are just brilliant and would find him a good home.
It's probably one little thing that has triggered this that as humans we are completely unaware of.
Sending my love. Xxx
Lesley, Maddie and Bramble

Offline AlanT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 584
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2017, 10:02:00 AM »
You seem to have done so much that is right.   I hope you don't give up.

You may just be worrying too much.  I've been through worrying about a pup with aggression/guarding who I knew would soon be coping with a new baby.

I accept a fair amount of growling and opinion.  For example paw drying produces loads of objections. Probably tickles.  I will put a flat hand into his mouth and say "go on bite me then".

I share this dog with my son and family.  About half-time, but I did five days per week when a puppy and they both worked full-time.

Yesterday we were enjoying a special bone-treat from the pet shop,really going at it!. My daughter-in-law came earlier than expected to get the dog and the baby.  In a bit of a hurry.

There was much dismay and some fear that the dog would guard/be aggressive/would not go home etc.

The first thing I did was to swap his collar from mine to theirs.  This produced a few warning growls.
I'd expect this.  Fingers fiddilng with the collar-clasp, twice.

Then I snapped on the lead and walked out the front-door.  The bone stayed behind. I shouted don't move the bone.

We came back 5 mins later and I picked up the bone and we held a "hide the bone ceremony".
Next time the dog comes he will make straight for the spot and discover that I kept the bone safe.

This is about you being confident and calm and winning trust.  You CAN do this.  It's a mutual understanding thing.

You dog sounds no more difficult than mine has been.  As a pup I'd have used thick gloves to do this and been rewarded with a bite most likely. 





Offline Ben's mum

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2951
  • Gender: Female
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2017, 10:04:53 AM »
So sorry you are having to make this decision, it must be heart breaking for you all  :bigarmhug:

I do agree with lescef, please please think about using a specific spaniel rescue organisation like Spaniel Aid as they have experienced fosters who can work with Teddy on his guarding  to give him the best chance of finding the most suitable forever home as he would be only rehomed with a family who the rescue feel can offer Teddy what he needs and if necessary a family without children. 

Offline hoover

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2017, 10:50:42 AM »
If you decide that that is what's best I am sure there will be a good home out there for him with people who don't have children or other pets.  A new home might also help him 'reset' his behaviour, as dogs can get in a habit of relating and acting in certain ways according to environment, people and other pets and a new set-up will disturb these habitual responses and allow them to be more receptive to learning better behaviours - especially at the age he is now. 

We seriously thought about speaking to the police dog handling unit when Ollie was a youngster to see if he would be suitable for them as he ticks all the boxes for a sniffer dog - huge appetite to be worked, absolutely ball obsessed and an incredible ability with scent work.  We also thought the clear boundaries and structured activity would help him to be managed more successfully - don't know if yours is a worker or shows any similarities.


Offline Ben's mum

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2951
  • Gender: Female
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2017, 11:47:17 AM »

You dog sounds no more difficult than mine has been.  As a pup I'd have used thick gloves to do this and been rewarded with a bite most likely.

I was trying to resist commenting, but couldn't sorry  :-\ I just don't think this is very helpful for someone who is clearly upset and struggling, each situation is different, and we don't know if Teddy is more or less 'difficult' than your dog as the environment and situation is going to be different.  All we can do is share our stories and experiences and offer support to each other.  Wearing gloves and accepting being bitten is just nonsense and not a constructive way to resolve the situation at all.  I don't want to go off topic and get into an argument, but do feel its more important we offer support while the OP comes to a decision about what they do next.

Offline moneypenny

  • Donator
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 159
  • Gender: Female
Re: Resource aggression in puppies
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2017, 12:30:57 PM »
Although it is a dreadfully difficult decision to make you have to think very carefully of the safety of your children. I had to rehome a dog once when our children were small and I was worried that they would get bitten. I'm sure it was the right decision and I'm equally sure that the dog had a wonderful life in his new home where there were no children .