To cocker or not cocker, that is the question!

[lilgingemama]

I am on my 5th and 6th Cockers at the moment(sisters) and have had them for 40 years now, I have never found the need to crate train, I hate the things and feel so many dogs are abused with them. Nor have I found the need to empty my pockets enrolling in obedience or puppy classes which seem fashionable at the moment. Just brought them up to live alongside us in our lifestyle , basic 'training' you can do yourself, if nes with a little advice ,they are great dogs, lovely characters, love walks, love attention...and I always say when people ask if they are good with children.....are your children good with dogs, because ironically it is usually the children that require the training NOT the dogs.....lol .

Certainly agree with that last bit!!
As for crates, there's crate training and crate training - I read an old Barbara Woodhouse book last week (her name came up in conversation on here), she advocated putting male dogs into a crate so low that they couldn't cock their legs in order to stop marking!!! , I don't think anyone would do that these days, neither do people tend to leave puppies in crates all day here, as seems to be widely practised in the U.S. I'd never used one before until I had Humphrey but I found it extremely useful (we have a large transport box rather than a metal crate), it offers security, it kept him (and my furnishings!) safe  if I needed to leave him for a short time in the day when he was little and it comes with us now when we take him anywhere, its his little home on wheels and helps him settle in the car or in hotels etc. We took the door off altogether as soon as was out of the young puppy stage. He was never in there for long periods except at night but I think, especially in busy households where they sometimes just need a safe haven, they're wonderful. Its like everything, its how you use them that counts.

I see what you mean rubyduby. We certainly wouldn't be keeping one crated all day. I hadn't heard of it at all until I started looking into dogs etc. I think we would be using it very much like bizzylizzy describes. A comfortable 'den' where she can take herself if she wants. Also a helpful visual for the kids to know 'that's her space, we leave her be.' We would also plan on bringing this when we visit in-laws (or they are dog sitting for us), travel in car, go on holiday etc (something that during those first young years is consistent.)

40 years of cockers! Well if ever there was a testimony for going for an ECS then that would be it!

[sodpot2000]

I am glad to see that you are thinking about this before, rather than after you have got the dog. That suggests you will do fine. I have had various kinds of spaniels all my life and can offer the following thoughts on your questions:

Walks - cockers are (within reason) very accommodating. If the weather is foul and you are up to your eyes in work then a short walk to do the necessary will suffice. Provided that the omission is made up for later.

Visitors - this is really a matter of making sure that the pup gets lots of early socialisation - meeting lots of people so that they are not seen as something strange and a threat. All the same you would still want the dog to be 'a good tenter' and bark when someone comes, I would have thought?

Calmness - Cockers can be incredibly chilled and spend hours at your feet whilst you are working. Provided Duke Ellington is on the playlist, Buster is quite happy to have a day with me writing, if that is what we are doing.

Training - even with a show dog they are, at their heart, bred to work. This means that they want to learn, want a job to do and preferably, one that they do with you as a team. If that day's job is washing then that's fine - give them something to carry for you and you have a happy pup.

Different walks - cockers know who does good walks and who does the short boring ones

Man Pride - When your dog is fully grown and fit it is usually the human rather than the spaniel who calls for a rest first. After the initial exuberance cockers tend to settle into what I call the 'cocker trot'. I don't know how far they can keep this up for. I have tried to find out on several occasions without success.

I hope everything works out for you

[Gazrob]

Crates are awesome. I got Marley when he was seven months old unfortunately he wasn't house trained. He lived in kennels in a yard until I got him. I put him in at night as I didn't want him sleeping in my room. He was fine after a couple of restless nights. I also put him in when I wasn't at home as I didn't want him peeing in the house or chewing my furniture. I was only Gone for four hours at the most. They don't pee in the crate that's mainly why I used it. He is 19 months old now. I don't lock him in it anymore. He sleeps in it at night but I dont force him in it he just goes in. He likes it.

[lilgingemama]

Sodpot2000 - the thought of writing with a loveable creature warming my feet (terrible circulation) is quite the bonus!

Now on jobs and washing - this sounds interesting! Do you mean I could get my canine companion to bring the peg basket or something? I would love to "give jobs" but prob need to read up how you get this in action! (Sorry - I'll repeat how much of a total newbie I am to dogs in general. My pets have consisted of "Mr T" my telescopic eyed blackmoor and my much loved puffy fish!)

Gazrob - wow. What a life Marley now leads. So glad he's our of a kennel and into a loved home.  The crate sounds great.

[rubyduby]

We just used dog beds......and if we were out the dogs had the freedom of the house, and in some cases (we did live remote) they had permanent access through a dog flap, which was perfect, they did dig the graden up, but as yet never had a Spaniel that was either destructive or moulted...so no mess beyond house training as a puppy, and even this was swift and easy

[Carolynleah]

I have a female golden cocker(and two labradors). Nerys is part Show/part worker and came to us at 12 months - possibly why she is not very fond of male visitors, possibly someone upset her before we got her. She has many good qualities, and does love my grandchildren. However, we do have to be careful when unknown people visit, while the labradors are brilliant with everyone (despite only coming to us aged 8 and 7).
Her recall is also not brilliant! I don't want to put you off though - just painting a different picture! Our son's CKC spaniel was an ideal dog for a family with young children.
You are obviously doing lots of research - good luck in finding your perfect dog 

[Londongirl]

I am glad to see that you are thinking about this before, rather than after you have got the dog. That suggests you will do fine. I have had various kinds of spaniels all my life and can offer the following thoughts on your questions:

Walks - cockers are (within reason) very accommodating. If the weather is foul and you are up to your eyes in work then a short walk to do the necessary will suffice. Provided that the omission is made up for later.

Visitors - this is really a matter of making sure that the pup gets lots of early socialisation - meeting lots of people so that they are not seen as something strange and a threat. All the same you would still want the dog to be 'a good tenter' and bark when someone comes, I would have thought?

Calmness - Cockers can be incredibly chilled and spend hours at your feet whilst you are working. Provided Duke Ellington is on the playlist, Buster is quite happy to have a day with me writing, if that is what we are doing.

Training - even with a show dog they are, at their heart, bred to work. This means that they want to learn, want a job to do and preferably, one that they do with you as a team. If that day's job is washing then that's fine - give them something to carry for you and you have a happy pup.

Different walks - cockers know who does good walks and who does the short boring ones

Man Pride - When your dog is fully grown and fit it is usually the human rather than the spaniel who calls for a rest first. After the initial exuberance cockers tend to settle into what I call the 'cocker trot'. I don't know how far they can keep this up for. I have tried to find out on several occasions without success.

I hope everything works out for you

I've found all of this to be true of Henry BUT you may have to wait. He will now sleep under the table while I'm working and not demand any attention, but this is quite a recent phenomenon and he will be two years old later this month. He is becoming a calm and accommodating companion, but it's been a long haul.

He is incredibly forgiving about not getting a huge walk every day. I  badly injured my foot nearly a year ago and am still under orders to limit walking so Henry gets no more than 45 minutes with me in the morning and then 20 minutes in the evening, but only if someone else is able to take him out. If it doesn't happen, he's fine. He gets a couple of mammoth walks with my OH at the weekend - when Henry sees him putting his walking shoes on of a Saturday morning, he starts bouncing off the walls with excitement. I regularly meet people who walk their dogs for hours on end to wear them out - I suspect all they are doing is training their dogs to be walking endurance athletes. Although if you have hours to spend walking and enjoy it, that's another matter.

[ips]

I am glad to see that you are thinking about this before, rather than after you have got the dog. That suggests you will do fine. I have had various kinds of spaniels all my life and can offer the following thoughts on your questions:

Walks - cockers are (within reason) very accommodating. If the weather is foul and you are up to your eyes in work then a short walk to do the necessary will suffice. Provided that the omission is made up for later.

Visitors - this is really a matter of making sure that the pup gets lots of early socialisation - meeting lots of people so that they are not seen as something strange and a threat. All the same you would still want the dog to be 'a good tenter' and bark when someone comes, I would have thought?

Calmness - Cockers can be incredibly chilled and spend hours at your feet whilst you are working. Provided Duke Ellington is on the playlist, Buster is quite happy to have a day with me writing, if that is what we are doing.

Training - even with a show dog they are, at their heart, bred to work. This means that they want to learn, want a job to do and preferably, one that they do with you as a team. If that day's job is washing then that's fine - give them something to carry for you and you have a happy pup.

Different walks - cockers know who does good walks and who does the short boring ones

Man Pride - When your dog is fully grown and fit it is usually the human rather than the spaniel who calls for a rest first. After the initial exuberance cockers tend to settle into what I call the 'cocker trot'. I don't know how far they can keep this up for. I have tried to find out on several occasions without success.

I hope everything works out for you

I've found all of this to be true of Henry BUT you may have to wait. He will now sleep under the table while I'm working and not demand any attention, but this is quite a recent phenomenon and he will be two years old later this month. He is becoming a calm and accommodating companion, but it's been a long haul.

He is incredibly forgiving about not getting a huge walk every day. I  badly injured my foot nearly a year ago and am still under orders to limit walking so Henry gets no more than 45 minutes with me in the morning and then 20 minutes in the evening, but only if someone else is able to take him out. If it doesn't happen, he's fine. He gets a couple of mammoth walks with my OH at the weekend - when Henry sees him putting his walking shoes on of a Saturday morning, he starts bouncing off the walls with excitement. I regularly meet people who walk their dogs for hours on end to wear them out - I suspect all they are doing is training their dogs to be walking endurance athletes. Although if you have hours to spend walking and enjoy it, that's another matter.

I am intrigued by this talk of calm, my one has never shown much level of calmness. Maybe it depends on the working pedigree.

[lilgingemama]

I have a female golden cocker(and two labradors). Nerys is part Show/part worker and came to us at 12 months - possibly why she is not very fond of male visitors, possibly someone upset her before we got her. She has many good qualities, and does love my grandchildren. However, we do have to be careful when unknown people visit, while the labradors are brilliant with everyone (despite only coming to us aged 8 and 7).
Her recall is also not brilliant! I don't want to put you off though - just painting a different picture! Our son's CKC spaniel was an ideal dog for a family with young children.
You are obviously doing lots of research - good luck in finding your perfect dog 

Thank you for your comments. It is helpful to hear a different picture.

Will pass on the CKS comments but my expectations are low. Lol!

[bmthmark]

Its great to read that you are researching the breed and preparing yourself as much as you can.

Firstly you have definately come to the right forum as there are some great people on here who will always offer advice.

I was in the same situation as you i.e first dog and 2 kids (mine slightly older than yours).
Mine cocker Jett is 10 months old now and I got him at 9 weeks old. We went for a cocker because I wanted a gentle family dog that was clever and had enough energy to go running with me.
We definitely got that, he is absolutely nuts  but at the same time he is completely harmless. He loves the kids so much and will happily play with them for hours.

I must admit there has been times when its been hard but i'm now at a stage where he is just amazing.

I have crate trained Jett, he goes in his crate at 10pm and will sleep through the night. I know some puppies are fine with this and it will only take a day or so to adapt, this was not the case for Jett. He was a royal pain and at first, he hated it and cried and barked constantly. Obviously with kids trying to sleep it was stressful times.
However with help from this forum I realised what I did wrong. I orignially got him the biggest crate you can buy, my human mind felt that he would like the space. I also put water and food in there. Both these choices were a mistake on my behalf. I got him a small crate so he felt snug and made sure he had water before bed, I also covered the crate with a blanket and put a clock next to the crate. He then loved it and started to relax and he slept well.
Jett then started to grow and a few months later he started barking and crying again. I then made the decision to change his crate back to the big one. He is now happy again and just loves his crate.

Puppy training is definately a good idea as it gives the puppy the basic commands.

Another thing I picked up on is when Jett rests I tell my kids to leave him be and the kids are not allowed to play with him in his crate. The crate is his area and its not play time when he is in there. When Jett is tired he does naughty things so we make sure he gets his rest.

He gets 2 walks a day, normally one in the morning for an hour and another in the evening for 30 minutes. He probably would be fine with 30 minute walks but we are just in a routine and we like to get out.

Sorry one other thing, when we needed to go out and leave Jett we got a puppy play pen which was very good and it kept him safe and at the same time enough space for him to play and run around.

Good luck with it all and keep us updated. 

[moneypenny]

It's great fun, isn't it, remembering what our cockers were like when we first brought them home. Our Penny is almost five and is the most well organised little thing you could imagine. She has very definite habits and fits into our family beautifully. She's a bit like a very fussy maiden aunt.
But it wasn't always like this. As a puppy she was a dreadful biter. You will really have to supervise the children carefully for about the first year, if our experience is any guide. Once we got past the biting stage she developed a very soft mouth and I'm sure she wouldn't bite anyone now, even in pain.

We haven't given her a lot of exercise, but it is great fun when you do take her for a walk, as she has very definite ideas about which street to walk down and which dogs she will talk to.

As for strangers in the house, she barks like mad at everybody, even family members, but settles down very quickly a few minutes after they arrive. I think her insanebarking means "how wonderful to see you again, where have you been, gee you smell nice today why don't we go on a walk, and by the way, have you brought any food?"

In short she is the most intelligent and human dog I've ever known. She loves to learn new tricks and display them to everyone.

If you do get a cocker you will probably find the cockerdile stage hard, but your main problem might be, like me, that everyone loves her so much they won't stop feeding her, and you will have to be on your guard as she will happily pretend she is starving.

[lilgingemama]

Thanks bmthmark and moneypenny for your experience of family life plus a dog.

They both sound fun.



Slightly nervous about the cockerdile stage. Should I expect the worse and thank God if it's less then I was expecting? Bmthmark - was yours nippy?

Amazing advice about the crate and a puppy pen! What crate do you think would be a good idea to start with? I am confused by 24" or 30" advice! I was hoping to get a cover (I know it's a bit of an unnecessary expense, but I figure the crate will look nicer in the kitchen and provide a cosier den feel for pup!)

[Londongirl]

We got a nice blanket to cover Henry's crate, which is permanently in the dining area of our kitchen. The blanket goes with the rest of our colour scheme and looks much nicer than a plain old crate! It's always covering the top (where I also keep wicker baskets to store doggy stuff) and sides and we just neatly fold the front up when he's not in it.

[TheAdventuresofBarnaby]

Hi lilgingemama and welcome.

I've just picked up on this thread.  Good for you to be doing such extensive research so far up front.

A couple of feedbacks for you as the owner of a now 9 month old WCS:

Exercise:  Well our boy is pretty good and fits into our ever changing routine very well.  On average he gets walked twice every three days I guess and then for an hour to an hour and a half each time. He can manage three days without a walk,  but by r=then he's starting to get into mischief around the house.  In addition to the walks he has free run of the garden and most of the house when we're home  but largely he's happiest wherever we are.  He also gets a lunch time constitutional to the local park every day.  That's only a short walk and takes around 15 mins max.  On the other hand his predecessor was a show/worker mix  and she needed walking for an hour every day.  By the way,  you say you live by the sea; our experience is that Cockers just love the seaside,  both beaches and the sea itself.... and tires them out at a great rate of knots.

Interaction with strangers:  This is a nature and nurture kinda thing.  Our boy comes into work with my wife and I every day.  He generally curls up on a camping chair behind my desk and dozes the day away.  We have a fairly healthy stream of new clients every day,  and he ususally ignores those who only popping in for a short visit,  coming out to investigate those who stay a little longer. 19 out of every 20 visitors who meet him find him adorable,  with the other one being dog shy. He enjoys the fuss from those who like him and quickly retires to his chair from those that don't.

Crockerdile:  Yes their teeth( and claws) are sharp as needles and like all puppies they do explore the world by chewing on it for the first 6 months or there about.  But cockers are clever little darlings and very quickly catch onto what is acceptable behaviour. 

For us we feel the key to our little boy's lovely temperament was in his choosing at the breeders.  In stead of going for the most energetic pup,  the one that pushed himself upon us,  we instead were drawn to his quieter sibling who stayed in the background and appraised us before coming forward.  That think-first, and then act behaviour is still very much part of his make-up.  It doesn't make him the sharpest of gun-dogs,  but he's a delight as a member of the family.

So,  in summary,  don't be put off Cockers, they are the loveliest,  funniest, softest and most kind hearted little beasts.  True they do drive us all mad at times mostly because of their joie de vivre. I think that everybody on here would agree that our lives would be all the sadder without them. 

Lest us know what you decide although I think you've decided already! 

[TheAdventuresofBarnaby]

Ha ha true to form our lovely little boy had a devilish moment while I was typing the last reply .http://cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/Smileys/classic/diablo.gif  (I'm working from home today).  I was only alerted by a strange howling and was greeted by a very apologetic Bad-Barnaby-Brown when went to investigate.

If someone can tell me how to post pics on here now that Photobucket's not playing ball,  I'll upload a pic of the scene that met me:-)))

J