Author Topic: Squirrel on crack mark 2....  (Read 2444 times)

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Offline PopPops

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Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« on: September 06, 2017, 11:58:46 AM »
Argh.

After Poppy, who never learned to walk on a lead, I swore I'd do better with Tolly and started work on lead work and attention right from the very start. He's eight months old and we've just come back from a trip to the garden centre and I could cry. Despite hours and hours of patient practice clicking and rewarding steps, look at me, six weeks of obedience classes (in which he largely tried to hump a French bulldog he became obsessed with and couldn't concentrate on anything else), hours of work on impulse control, hours (literally) of sitting outside with him in public places working on look at me with a clicker to proof him against distractions, he dragged me everywhere, towards every smell, everything of interest, any person, he was swinging around me like a kite, it was a wrestling match from start to finish. Interspersed with mad hopping on his hind legs like a kangaroo if anyone came into view and jumping up at everyone and everything.  And he learned to cock his leg two weeks back which at least stopped him constantly weeing on his front legs and stomach and having to be bathed several times a day, but he sprayed absolutely everything. Display stands, doorways, everything, I ended up having to carry him because even with eyes in the back of my head he was spraying everything he could get into reach of. He's oblivious to me on the lead, he has no sense whatsoever of being with me or walking with me, he just goes into a mad state of flap just like Poppy used to.

Two dogs. Two dogs I've somehow managed to raise as dogs who can do beautiful tricks, sits, stays in the house with me, but the second there's any distraction turn into flappy, uncontrollable maniacs who are no pleasure to take out anywhere, I can't work out what I'm doing wrong! I'm reading what I can and seeing people saying 'don't let them glue their nose to the ground or sniff or relieve themselves outside unless you say so' - HOW?! I can't get this dog's attention at all with any treat of any kind, I can wave hot roast chicken under his nose and not get him to look at me, he's not that interested in food. Backing away from something he wants and waiting for him to get the idea that if he stops behaving like a pogo stick he can go closer doesn't work, he just hangs on the lead and swings around me in circles, or lunges like mad in whatever direction I turn in. Nothing seems to be working at all! Is it always this hard?

Pops the Womble: November 2012 to February 2017. Forever loved and missed Poppet.

Offline Londongirl

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Re: Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2017, 12:12:49 PM »
So frustrating! Is he interested in toys rather than food? You could try short burst of tug as a reward instead of food, if that's what rocks his boat.
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline TheAdventuresofBarnaby

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Re: Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2017, 12:34:18 PM »
Afraid I can offer no advice on this.

But thank you for posting such a brilliant description of what it is to be the owner of a cocker in a public place.  I'll be smiling all afternoon at the image:-)

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2017, 12:42:59 PM »
Afraid I can offer no advice on this.

But thank you for posting such a brilliant description of what it is to be the owner of a cocker in a public place.  I'll be smiling all afternoon at the image:-)

Yes indeed, a familiar scene it is!!  :005:

Offline Londongirl

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Re: Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2017, 05:48:50 PM »
So there's no hope of having a 'normal' dog, then?

Almost every day, someone asks me how old my 'puppy' is. When I say he's two, they look surprised, then make sympathetic faces. Yup.
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline PopPops

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Re: Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2017, 09:28:04 PM »

Argh don't tell me this is it permanently! Otherwise I'm going to quit trying to walk him and just get one of those baby toddler sling things and carry him everywhere, it'll be less painful on my back!

Thanks for the idea Londongirl, I'll have a try with a toy and see if he's more interested.
Pops the Womble: November 2012 to February 2017. Forever loved and missed Poppet.

Offline Londongirl

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Re: Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2017, 10:21:04 PM »
I just read the OP out loud to my OH and he is crying with laughter (mostly in sympathy, to be clear).  :005: :005: :005:
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline ips

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Re: Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2017, 10:25:14 PM »
Afraid I can offer no advice on this.

But thank you for posting such a brilliant description of what it is to be the owner of a cocker in a public place.  I'll be smiling all afternoon at the image:-)

This 😁
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline bmthmark

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Re: Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2017, 09:23:58 AM »
Great post and it sums my life up 100%  :rofl1:

Mine is 11 months old and as soon as he gets distracted he is uncontrollable. When he was younger I could bribe him with treats and he was perfect, unfortunately he even turns these down now and has his own mind.

Definitely keep going with what you are doing, even though you may think things are not working - i'm sure they are and he will be fine in the long run.

People keep telling me its just his age and he will get through it

Offline pam1

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Re: Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2017, 09:49:00 AM »
My Ollie is exactly the same and he is 8 next month!   
Pam, Oliver and Bertie

Offline BonnieScot

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Re: Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2017, 06:34:36 AM »
This is the best description of owning a cocker!

And it gets right to the nub of what's been going on in our house too. BonBon can learn anything indoors, and when I have her attention outside, she's an absolute dream. But we've had a steady succession of trainers who've given me one or the other method/harnesses (all positive) to help me with lead walking. When the treat value is high and the distraction level is low (or not novel), she can just about manage. In new places? Poltergeist on a lead.

I now use a long line (5m) as our lead. I don't want an extending one as I'm worried it will teach her to pull more. But our daily walks are in places where she can totter along beside me taking in all the sniffs (I call her PC Bonnie) and inspecting every hedge, shrub and piece of grass. If she pulls I stop. If we're next to the road, I bring her in and we play heel.

But in a new place, I use the WYDWL as a control mechanism to protect her and me.

I've had dogs all my life and this is my first cocker and my first real nutter. The others seemed to teach themselves to walk on a lead but I also need to be fair and remember that back then we had choker chains whereas now I wouldn't dream of it.

I am determined to get it right though and regularly re-read the works I like and try again. I am fascinated by trying to work out what reward they are getting and whether I can compete!

Good luck.

Offline TirelessTitch

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Re: Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2017, 02:35:02 PM »
Two of best bits of advice for me, trying to get Titch to walk less manically, were LondonGirls "if he pulls just stop and we don't go anywhere until the lead is loose." I found this was really difficult to maintain, as sometimes we really did have to go somewhere in a limited amount of time. So I used a particular 4ft lead for when I was going to insist on good behaviour, and at other times used the walking belt and bunjee lead (saves my shoulders and back!). He does seem to know the difference!
The other really helpful tip was from ips in this forum; when he starts pulling ahead, to stop and gently place him in the position you want him to walk - much better than pulling him back into position, and again seemed to really help him get the idea.

So, thanks to both, Titch is now 15 months and our walks are usually much more pleasant.  :blink:

Offline PopPops

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Re: Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2017, 03:59:55 PM »

Thank you, really good suggestions and much appreciated. 

I read Londongirl's diary a while back, it's incredibly useful and I've been following both her advice and the other excellent thread running recently of physically putting him back in place, but it doesn't seem to get through to him. What I have been doing for the last couple of days is going right back to absolute basics and I have him on a lead attached to my waist all the time. The plan is that he'd get more used to walking with me. Actually he seems to quite like it and he's calmer in general. We had someone come to the door earlier and he was much calmer, and he isn't chasing the cats constantly or trashing the place. Possibly we've hit the majorly teenaged puppy stage and going right back to absolute basics is the way to go? We've had a couple of instances of cocking his leg in the house, having just discovered he can do it and now performing all the time like a fire hose, and having him on the tether seems to be helping with clarity on toilet training too.

Pops the Womble: November 2012 to February 2017. Forever loved and missed Poppet.

Offline Londongirl

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Re: Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2017, 04:16:29 PM »
So glad to hear my diary helped! We still have pretty good loose leash walking but Henry does still dive off to the side to sniff things, mostly at the beginning of the walk. I have to remind myself how far we've come.

Another great tip I've recently discovered relates to creating a Reinforcement Zone where everything good happens. You make the zone the side of your leg, right on the seam of your trousers. You can actively reinforce this by getting the dog in position and feeding treats. But you can also reinforce it every time you interact with them while you are standing. So give toys from that side, with dog beside. Give cuddles from there too. And when walking, to avoid the dog getting into the habit of yo-yoing forwards and back for a treat, forwards, back for a treat, etc. - try walking backwards for a while, so the dog is always moving towards you. When he catches up, spin around to face forwards, getting the dog in the correct position, and reward for being in the 'zone'. It's great for getting to where you want to go, as they wonder what the heck you are up to and keep walking towards you.
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline TirelessTitch

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Re: Squirrel on crack mark 2....
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2017, 05:41:39 PM »
Just re-read the OP first post here again, it reminded me your dog is still pretty young and still I guess at the stage of testing how much it can control. They all seem to be very different in terms of development, but Titch has become a lot quicker on the uptake since he got to 1 year old. Also, I just use a little of his dried food, more as a marker of good behaviour than a super-desireable reward; i.e. I get his attention on me and offer a bit of dried food, more about getting his attention back than reward per se.

Of course, if I had a ball in my hand he would never move from my side (or rather, from just in front of me, staring into my eyes as he skips backwards while trying to mentally manipulate me to throw it) but, that isn't really practical when walking through the village.