Are there more working cockers....

[Cob-Web]

..than there used to be?

I've been a COL member almost 2 years  and there were very few members with working cockers when I joined. Since then, there seems to have been a trend for working cockers as pets - and I wondered if this is actually true, or if one working cocker owner told another working cocker owner and others joined,  so that it looks like that iyswim?

Is there any way of telling from KC registrations -   perhaps by affix for instance, whether more working cockers are being bred now than previously? Until it was discussed here (after we had got Molo) I had no idea that there were differences........

[Helen]

maybe we've just all found our way here?

i don't think (in this area anyway) that there has been increased breeding for pet ownership - in fact the working cocker breeders aren't very keen to sell to non-working families.  working cockers are getting a lot more popular now as gun dogs so that may be why there there may be more around.

20 years ago you couldn't give a working cocker away to a shooter or a beater - now they're in great demand!

i've got the kennel club breeds supplement in front of me jul/sep 05 for the gundog listings - trouble with the affixes is that breeders aren't just using one affix for their litter    can see a lot of familiar working cocker affixes!

forgive me if i'm stoopid rachel but i'm assuming show cockers would be listed under the gundog listings as well as working cockers?

[silkstocking]

I have to say I have met ALOT of working cockers round here recently so maybe there is a trend, or possibly its a coinsidence. My OH adores working cockers he's always been around working gun dogs thats the only reason I initially knew there was a differnce xxxxx

[PennyB]

I also think there's a trend now with more working cockers. Lets face it how many people keep buying working cockers thinking they're show type cockers or don't know the difference between the two. I met a beautiful cocker pup one day in our park and I knew she was a working cocker but the owner kept saying she's just a cocker as I beleive he didn't know there was a difference. I don't think all working cocker breeders actually bother whether the pups go to pet homes or homes where they will 'work' the dogs (field trials, agility etc.)

[Jane S]

All Cocker (Working & show-type) registrations are listed in the same place in the KC Breed Supplement - it's easy to distinguish litters with well-known show & Field Trial affixes but not so easy when it comes to litters without affixes although sometimes you can recognise the affix belonging to the stud dog. I don't think there's been an increase in the litters produced by serious Working Cocker enthusiasts - a few well-known Working Cocker breeders produce large numbers of litters in the same way that some well-known show kennels do and that hasn't changed. But there certainly seem to be people now producing Working Cocker litters who have no interest in working their dogs but breed purely to sell. We have one such breeder locally who always seems to have Working Cocker litters on the go (as well as several other popular breeds). I suppose this is a sign that Working Cockers are becoming more popular as pets - there are always those who will jump on the bandwagon if there's money to be made.

Jane

[silkstocking]

I have had a similiar experinece with a working cocker owner Penny who didn't have a clue, she couldn't tell that our dogs looked different, even when i pointed out the obvious differences, she had been sold the dog as a show cocker and thats what it was in her eyes, anyone who knows cockers could tell her that it was a working cocker. Not that it makes any difference they are all cockers and all georgous, but I thought at the time what a shame it was that she didn't get it, that she hadn't done her homework, and that she couldn't see what was staring her in the face, because whoever sold the dog sold it as a show so she was blinded by that, she must have thought I was being a right snooty whatsit! That wasn't my intention I was just trying to explain the differences to her.

She was telling me proudly too that the dog had come from Ireland and that the "breeder" had all sorts of dogs that they brought from Ireland or bred themselves ......we all know what that means, so maybe there is a trend here in the SE at least.

[suki1964]

I have had a similiar experinece with a working cocker owner Penny who didn't have a clue, she couldn't tell that our dogs looked different, even when i pointed out the obvious differences, she had been sold the dog as a show cocker and thats what it was in her eyes, anyone who knows cockers could tell her that it was a working cocker. Not that it makes any difference they are all cockers and all georgous, but I thought at the time what a shame it was that she didn't get it, that she hadn't done her homework, and that she couldn't see what was staring her in the face, because whoever sold the dog sold it as a show so she was blinded by that, she must have thought I was being a right snooty whatsit! That wasn't my intention I was just trying to explain the differences to her.

She was telling me proudly too that the dog had come from Ireland and that the "breeder" had all sorts of dogs that they brought from Ireland or bred themselves ......we all know what that means, so maybe there is a trend here in the SE at least.

Same thing happens here. Well known petshop in the area (well known by the animal rights activists) whos a dealer in pups And he sells loads of working cockers to people who dont know there is a difference. You can see their face fall for a moment when they realise their pup is not going to look like their idea of a cocker.

At the end of the day I dont know whos in the wrong, breeders/dealers selling pups without explaining or the owners not doing enough research before buying

[watermelon0719]

Can someone please explain the difference to me? We kind of fell into the breed, since Odie is a rescue Cocker. How do you tell show Cockers from working ones? 

[silkstocking]

Can someone please explain the difference to me? We kind of fell into the breed, since Odie is a rescue Cocker. How do you tell show Cockers from working ones? 

Show cockers have lower hung longer ears, working cockers ears are higher set and shorter.

Show cockers tend to have much more coat than working cockers.

Working cockers are more muscular really.

There is load of info on site if you do a search.

Most people say that working cockers have far more energy than Shockers too, although having to shockers I'm not buying that one, these two are barmey!!!

[lyn]

paddy is half worker and i wasn't told this by the breeder.i did know of working cockers but i didn't know that they were able to be kc registered if they were crossed with show types like paddy is.it makes no difference to us though as we have no intentions to breed but i would love to get into the shows and obviously thats not possible with a working cocker.paddy looks like a working cocker not show except for the shape of his head which is domed like show types.
a few months ago i saw a lady in a market with a cocker puppy and an adult cocker,the puppy was obviously a working cocker but the lady had never heard of them.i think she thought i was lying or something until i mentionet ftch in the pedigree she said she did remember seeing those letters and had wondered what they meant.i have to say she was more than a little put out.btw that is the only other working cocker i have ever seen in this area.also a few weeks back there were working cockers advertised for sale on another site and the breeder had put "great prospects for work or show"it's breeders like this who should be banned.

[Joelf]

I must admit that until we got Domino I wasn't really aware of the difference between the show & working strains (Domino is a show cocker!) I knew they were a very active breed but had never seen a working cocker "in the flesh".

We chose a cocker because we have always liked gundogs & wanted something a bit smaller than our labs! (They also have working & show types........Spike is a working strain but the other labs were all show.)

[silkstocking]

See all this confuses me! They are both Cockers but one is show strain and one is Working strain. But you couldn't Show a dog that is mixed with working strain, so did the crossing just start because of puppy farmers or did someone just not realsie there is a difference?? I don't get in, you couldn't KC register a cockododdle could you? because its a cross breed ( i think I'm right!!) so how come "wshockers" aren't classed as a cross, because they are two cocker strains crossed, is it because they are just both classed as English Cocker Spaniel in KC terms?? Well in any terms they are, oh I am CONFUSED!!!

Sorry for all the questions, I may be totally off base, but like I said I just find the whole thing really confusing

Either way they are all cockers and all wonderful, I'm just interested, I am in no way being negative to those "wshockers"!!!!!! ( they have the best........attributes of both shockers and working cockers!!!! ha ha)

There is someone in this area whose name seems to be on alot of dog websites who sells, working cockers and shockers depending on what it is you want, so if you phoned asking for a shocker, he'd say the litter was shocker, if you said working cocker he'd tell you the litter he had is working cocker, they are a mixture of both, but they don't look like either, so there's probably something else thrown in for good measure

[Top Barks]

Workers and show cockers in my experience share the same loveable traits but when you get down to the nitty gritty they are like chalk and cheese in some situations.
The insticts of the working dog are more honed than the show type which has been artificially selected to conform to a breed standard rather than the working dog who has been bred not for looks but for the job it can do in the field. My show type Ollie walks down the street and I can just imagine him saying look at me, look at me aren't I beatiful. (which of course he is) Douglas however walks down the street thinking I wish i was on the common flushing chaffinches instead of this.
In my own experience and this isn't great, as I have only had working cockers for two years, the working cocker is a quicker learner than the show type but this may be just my dogs. I wonder how anyone else who owns both show and working strain feels about my thoughts?
They look different ,they act different (Especially in the countryside where working cockers  really come alive) but they cuddle you just the same, no matter what.
Mark, Oliver the golden show cocker, Douglas and Bayley the pheasant flushing working cockers.

[Cob-Web]

Lisa, I'm sure someone more expert than me will correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it:

The "shocker" lines have been developed through selective breeding of KC registered ECS by people looking to enhance the breed for showring purposes - so enhancing the "breed standard" (Sh Ch) characteristics, which has led to many of the working characteristics becoming less dominant.

working cocker lines have been developed through selective breeding of KC registered ECS by people looking to enhance characteristics for working (mainly competition) purposes - enhancing the working (Ft Ch) characteristics, which has led to the breed standard characteristics becoming less dominant.

Both are KC registered as English Cocker Spaniels - and so any matings of two KC registered dogs can result in a KC registered litter - even if the puppies are poor examples of the breed standard 

In therory you CAN enter a working cocker for a show - but they are unlikely to do well as they have not been bred with the Breed Standard Characteristics in mind so will always been outclassed by Shockers 

Well, thats as clear as mud now....

[silkstocking]

Lisa, I'm sure someone more expert than me will correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it:

The "shocker" lines have been developed through selective breeding of KC registered ECS by people looking to enhance the breed for showring purposes - so enhancing the "breed standard" (Sh Ch) characteristics, which has led to many of the working characteristics becoming less dominant.

working cocker lines have been developed through selective breeding of KC registered ECS by people looking to enhance characteristics for working (mainly competition) purposes - enhancing the working (Ft Ch) characteristics, which has led to the breed standard characteristics becoming less dominant.

Both are KC registered as English Cocker Spaniels - and so any matings of two KC registered dogs can result in a KC registered litter - even if the puppies are poor examples of the breed standard 

In therory you CAN enter a working cocker for a show - but they are unlikely to do well as they have not been bred with the Breed Standard Characteristics in mind so will always been outclassed by Shockers 

Well, thats as clear as mud now....

  when you really sit and think about it it is so confusing isn't it!!!! My brain is in overload!!! Yeah I can see in theory you can enter a shwocker for a show butr because it is unlikely to meet the breed standard characteristics it will be out classed that all makes perfect sense ha ha!!

Thanks for the other info Rachel , it makes more sense although I must confess I still find it a little bizzare!!! I think its difficult to get sorted in my head becasue in my mind working cockers are out flushing and shockers are out showing!! Which obviously isn't the case at all, but thats how my mind seems to rationalise it! I think its becasue the breeders I know well are show people who wouldn't mix a working cocker with a shocker because they are likely to get put out the show ring because of the charectiristics being so different.

Its good to get the grey cells working on a sunday morning!!!!!