Help - Billy bit a boy today......

[Jan/Billy]

  .........

We were going out for our morning walk, I came out of the house into my front garden, and Billy was on his extended lead. My garden has iron railings around it so Billy can’t get out until I open the gate. I turned around to close & lock my front door. Whilst doing so  Billy’s lead extended , I presumed he was mooching around the garden. I turned around from the door and to my horror there was a young boy with his hands through the railings stroking Billy . I was very worried, as Billy dislikes some strangers and I wouldn’t normally allow a child to stroke Billy.

I looked at Billy, his ears were back, he was as still like a statue and his tail was in between his legs, and I knew he wasn’t happy. I was just about to call him to me when SNAP he bit the boy and then proceeded to growl like mad. I was horrified, I felt sick to the stomach. The boy couldn’t have been stroking him for more than three or four seconds. I shouted a loud NO to Billy (don’t know if this was right or wrong) and went over the to boy, Billy turned to me and growled as if to say, “back off mum I’m busy”. 

The boy is ok; I made sure he was before he went home. I of course apologised profusely. I looked at his hand. Billy hadn’t broken the skin but there was a red mark about a centimetre long on his wrist. The boy was very good he said he was ok and that Billy could probably smell his dogs as he has 4 dogs and that was why he snapped.

Had this boy not been ok, and had Billy broken the skin it could have been another story. We could have been given a warning by the police today that if it happens again………

I feel I have been very very lucky today and know I need to take this as a warning.  I understand that as Billy’s owner I am fully responsible for his actions. He has growled at strangers before but never bitten.

But where do I go from here? I can’t understand why he likes some people and not others. What do I do??? I thought I had things under control but obviously not.  This happened today in a second, it happened so so fast; I turned by back for a second or two there was nothing I could do .

So do I just stop people from stroking him when we are out? I never as a rule allow children to stroke him anyway.  I really really don’t want to have to muzzle him. He plays with dogs off lead every day and a muzzle would interrupt this, plus he would absolutely hate it and so would I. But I do fully understand that I can’t let him be a threat to the people’s safety. It has been on my mind all day in work. Do I get help from a behaviourist??

[Annette]

Jan, I have no advice to offer, I'm afraid. But I'm sure someone will have soon.

I just wanted to say how sorry I am that this happened. You have worked so hard with Billy, and to be honest you did nothing wrong today, but I can fully understand your concerns.

I hope you will get some really helpful advice from someone on here.

[Jan/Billy]

Jan, I have no advice to offer, I'm afraid. But I'm sure someone will have soon.

I just wanted to say how sorry I am that this happened. You have worked so hard with Billy, and to be honest you did nothing wrong today, but I can fully understand your concerns.

I hope you will get some really helpful advice from someone on here.

Thanks. I keep trying to tell myself that it's not that bad as Billy didn't break the skin and that therefore  he didn't want to cause injury but who knows what will happen next time 

[Deb H]

We have a similar problem with Henry. He either likes people or he doesn't he is very unpredictable and as a result when out we watch him like a hawk. They emit so much with their body language tail down ears back etc.. We never allow him off lead when out and warn people that he can be aggressive. It is very sad because he is a beatiful gentle boy most of the time but turns on a sixpence. Billy seems to have been guarding his property and the young boy didn't pick up on the signals (not his fault). Because this boy has dogs off his own he was perhaps bolder than most kids in the same situation. If i were you now i know he guards the gate i would not allow him access to the front garden off lead. I am sorry this has happened to you i dread the very same thing i'm sure someone will be along with more experience tham me. Good luck.

[Jan/Billy]

Thanks Deb .

Sorry I don't think I made it clear in my post. Billy was on lead in the front garden, we were on our way out and i had just turned around to lock the front door. Whilst i was locking the door Billy went down the path to the front gate when it happened - He was on extended lead and I had hold of the lead.

I really don't want to have to leave him on the lead. He's only like this is people approach him, he's better off the lead than on. If I don't let him off the lead he can't play with his friends which for Billy is a huge part od his life.

Of course if I have to have him on lead permanently then I will do so but i'd really like to try and solve the problem if it is possible although maybe I can't 

[dollop]

I don't have any advice, but I really feel for you. I suppose the boy sticking his hand through the bars must have seemed threatening to Billy. A dog behaviourist may well be a good idea.
I personally wish parents would teach their children to ASK before they stroke any dog, and how to stroke dogs in a "dog-friendly" manner- I have a toddler and a teenager and have taught both my kids to do this.
He may well feel differently on the lead than off- perhaps he felt "on the lead, no escape" and therefore more threatened? My cocker has recently taken a dislike to a pair of GSDs- she barks at them on the lead, but off it just runs past them as fast as she can in silence!

[dorae]

not got any advise really but i would say the boy was at fault for putting his hand through the fence i wish children and adults would ask owners permission before approaching a dog i always tell my kids to ask the owner before stroking a dog.

[Ben's mum]

 yep - same problem here with Ben.  I never know what reaction he is going to have with people.  Sometimes he's an angel and other times for no obvious reason he will snap.  I do let Ben off, but watch him like a hawk, I warn people not to stroke him as he is not always friendly then if they go ahead I consider its their own silly fault if he growls or shows his lovely teeth!
Obviously with children its very different.  I get so cross that kids reach out to touch dogs, then its the dog that would be in trouble if they got bitten.  Last summer Ben nipped a little girl with Downs, who was poking and prodding Ben for ages, despite me asking both her and her parents to go away (politely).  We were sat outside a pub and in the end just as we decided to move on to get away, Ben nipped her.  Not hard enough to break the skin but enough to leave a mark and scare all of us silly.  So I understand what you are going through - all these thoughts run through your mind about 'what could of happpened'.  But you have to remember Billy was on your territory, secured and the boy reached out to him, you couldn't have done anything to stop the situation so I would imagine the boy has to take some responsibility for this situation.
As for the future, I know its a difficult one - I have had advice from a behaviourist who generally gave me info about NILIF, which I am following anyway ( and seem to remember from your previous posts you do to??)  I won't muzzle Ben unless I really have to.  I watch him, and always have bribery and treats to hand to distract him if kids are around. On a recent holiday, the town centre and beach were packed with kids, and I found by using the 'watch me' techniqe and having excellent smelly treats he was really focused on me not what others were doing.  It worked well and I was proud of him. I also rewarded him well for ignoring children that did stroke him or run up to him.
I know its easy to say don't panic, but I guess you've got to take a big breath, remember how well you are doing with Billy, and put it down to experience. Try not to keep him on the lead - you will both become unhappy.   I know for a while I tensed up any time we were out and a kid came near - Ben used to react as soon as I did this and was on his guard, so try not to let him know when you are anxious. try working at distraction tricks they have helped me.  If I get worried I call Ben in a really high silly excited voice which he knows means he is going to get something extra good and he always comes back - i only use this if i am anxious about a situation with another dog or person and so far so good!!!

Sorry this is so long, but I really understand how you are feeling now, just remember others have been through it and have come out the other side unscathed.............
 maybe a couple of stones heavier from all the chocolate eaten to de-stress and slightly tipsy from lots of strong drink to calm the nerves - but managing
Cockers eh - who'd have em???

Ben's mum

[Magic Star]

Jan, I have no advice to offer, I'm afraid. But I'm sure someone will have soon.

I just wanted to say how sorry I am that this happened. You have worked so hard with Billy, and to be honest you did nothing wrong today, but I can fully understand your concerns.

I hope you will get some really helpful advice from someone on here.

Completely agree Annette

Jan, I am so sorry to hear about this, i've no words of wisdom, except maybe a behaviourist is the next step?

Take care x

[Jan/Billy]

aw thanks guys I feel a bit better to know I'm not the only one . I want Billy to understand he can't go around biting people just becuase he doesn't like them, but i suppose that maybe an unrealistic view .

I used to follow NILF but not so much these days, although I do think with Billy it maybe becuase he is frightened? so would NILF help with this? 

If he only ever growled at people with glasses then at least i'd be able to get a few people with glasses to be very nice to him and throw treats at him but I don't know what it is exactly that is freaking him out so i don't know where to start 

[suki1964]

Jan, I have no advice to offer, I'm afraid. But I'm sure someone will have soon.

I just wanted to say how sorry I am that this happened. You have worked so hard with Billy, and to be honest you did nothing wrong today, but I can fully understand your concerns.

Annette says so well what i wanted to say

I used to follow NILF but not so much these days, although I do think with Billy it maybe becuase he is frightened? so would NILF help with this?

I think going back to basics is a good idea. I know I have slackened off with the NILIF with Alfie and thinking about it, his "bad" behaviour has been creeping up slowly unnoticed (or Ive been to busy to see) till we got to where we are today - chasing cars with a death wish. The fear may be about his bounderies being unclear, start back with the traing again and he may start feeling more secure

Dont give up Jan, you have worked marvels with him so far

[Jan/Billy]

I used to follow NILF but not so much these days, although I do think with Billy it maybe becuase he is frightened? so would NILF help with this?

I think going back to basics is a good idea. I know I have slackened off with the NILIF with Alfie and thinking about it, his "bad" behaviour has been creeping up slowly unnoticed (or Ive been to busy to see)

His behaviour has been great other than this today infact OH and i were only talking about how mature he is recently. Maybe we spoke too soon.  He has always ( since about 18mths ish) had a problem with some strangers. I stopped aspects  of NILF as I felt I had lost a chunk of his bubbly doggy personality.


dogs!! who'd have em 

[miche]

I am sorry that this has happened too.  I know for a fact that if anyone put their hand into my letter box on my front door Ronald would bite it and hard.

Putting aside the fact that Billy bit a child today, Billy was in his garden behind his railings and some-one was a threat to him and possibly you by putting their hands through the railings.

I know you want to try to discourage this behaviour and it might be an idea to seek some help for your own piece of mind.

It is a shame that this boy has 4 dogs and does not know not to touch other dogs without asking first, and I am not saying that this is the childs fault as his parents might not have told him - but he'll know now.

Good Luck.

[Danni n Betty]

Scary stuff... I think when kids (and most grown ups!) see a cute lill doggy its easy to just approach it. I hate having to tell kids not to approach Betty, I just say she's nervous around kids. Shes never bit anyone, but is very barky and lunges around strange kids and adults when she's on her lead, when she's off, she'll trot past without batting an eyelid. But how do you solve it? I dont know any kids to 'practice' with, and wouldnt be happy to anyway in an uncontrolled situation.

Do I get help from a behaviourist?? 

I thought about taking her to behaviour classes, maybe socialising her more would help, but when I spoke to the woman who ran our local one, she said it would be unsuitable for her, and would require one-to-one, but thats pricey, not sure if something like that would be covered in the insurance?

[Jan/Billy]

It is a shame that this boy has 4 dogs and does not know not to touch other dogs without asking first, and I am not saying that this is the childs fault as his parents might not have told him - but he'll know now.

He's such a sweet boy, I feel terrible. I know he shouldn't have put his hand through the railings but I think I know why he did.
He lives about 10 doors away from me and so sees me and Billy out on walks etc nearly every day although he has never actually come into contact with Billy before.Billy always has a happy waggy tail and looks like butter wouldn't melt.
The boy has quite big dogs( I think they are all rescue)  and often walks all four of them on his own . His 3 dogs are not allowed off lead whereas Billy is of  lead a lot playing with other dogs so he probably thought Billy isn't a bad dog.

But I suppose you are right in that he won't be doing it again