Working Cockers? What are the differences?

[*jean*]

I think she is utterly beautiful. she reminds me so much of my old old dog rags.
here he is..your dog has more white on the face but the same ticking and black areas on the back. 

[workingcockers]

the problem is the old story about breeders (both types) not making sure purchasers understand 100% what they are buying. The other problem is most novice owners will not know enough about bloodlines (these takes years and years) to know if they are liable to end up with a calm biddable cocker or one that has a high drive. With the surge in popularity, many breeders are novices too and havent really a clue what they are breeding either (breeding for colour only seems to be a high priority for many) and are not experienced themselves to give back up to their puppy purchasers.

[*jean*]

the problem is the old story about breeders (both types) not making sure purchasers understand 100% what they are buying. The other problem is most novice owners will not know enough about bloodlines (these takes years and years) to know if they are liable to end up with a calm biddable cocker or one that has a high drive. With the surge in popularity, many breeders are novices too and havent really a clue what they are breeding either (breeding for colour only seems to be a high priority for many) and are not experienced themselves to give back up to their puppy purchasers.

I agree totally. my dogs come from a long line of dogs bred by the same people. They are biddable and easily trained to my mind ( Im comparing them with working collies.. who I also have trained for sheep in the past and am trying  still to get some sense in to Oh's collie who is blessed with good looks but also a hard head and is thrawn!) My spaniels will run all day outside but if its bucketing/ blizzarding and I cant be bothered going out they are as happy as I am lying in front of the fire. TBH I didnt see a hyper cocker EVER until last year and I can only say it was  poor breeding in that dogs case.
 remember trialling dogs work in short bursts off like rockets. A dog on the hill with a keeper is slower and more methodical. it has to pace itself to last the day. If it went at the speed expected at a trial it would be exhausted in no time.  Its a bit like comparing a showjumper with a horse that pulls a carriage   they both work but in different ways,.and unlike pet spaniels a working spaniel may find its self confined to kennels for 60 to 70 % of the time . They dont all get hour walks 3 times a day. ( I dont know any that do they get out every day while the kennels are cleaned and have a runaround in the field then its back in the kennel until theres work to be done) of course there is the exception to every rule and some dogs are naturally more bouncy and as adolescants may try it on a bit but thats all dogs not just the workers.
what Im trying to say I suppose is  what was a cracking wee dog is slowly changing into something maybe not as good, through ignorance, greed and popularity. Id like all litters to be endorsed from now on to stop the population explosion and keep the breeding of these dogs to folk who know what they are doing.

[Helen]

the problem is the old story about breeders (both types) not making sure purchasers understand 100% what they are buying. The other problem is most novice owners will not know enough about bloodlines (these takes years and years) to know if they are liable to end up with a calm biddable cocker or one that has a high drive. With the surge in popularity, many breeders are novices too and havent really a clue what they are breeding either (breeding for colour only seems to be a high priority for many) and are not experienced themselves to give back up to their puppy purchasers.

absolutely 

that's not even taking into account the lack of health testing (sadly Kirsten you are an exception, not the rule  )

[Cazzie]

the problem is the old story about breeders (both types) not making sure purchasers understand 100% what they are buying. The other problem is most novice owners will not know enough about bloodlines (these takes years and years) to know if they are liable to end up with a calm biddable cocker or one that has a high drive. With the surge in popularity, many breeders are novices too and havent really a clue what they are breeding either (breeding for colour only seems to be a high priority for many) and are not experienced themselves to give back up to their puppy purchasers.

absolutely 

that's not even taking into account the lack of health testing (sadly Kirsten you are an exception, not the rule  )

You are abs correct, and when we have the likes of the big boys breeding without health testing and breeding  at 7 months old bitch to her half brother , what examples and standards are they setting 

[workingcockers]

got it in one Jean, they used to be bred for long lasting stamina, not a flashy display of speed...Mine are the same, if for some reason they cant get out past the garden due to snow, torrential rain, me having a migraine, they dont care as they know tomorrows another day, and are happy to lie about and sleep in front of the fire and the TV or watch over me as I sleep. Im quite down at the moment over the way the breed is changing...

[workingcockers]

I know Im the exception...it is so sad, but cant see any of the big names going for optigen when they dont even bother with KC/BVA eye certificates and hips is aiming for the stars...I wish I wasnt a lone person trying to buck the tide with unfashionable breeding  and health certificates etc...

[Cazzie]

I know Im the exception...it is so sad, but cant see any of the big names going for optigen when they dont even bother with KC/BVA eye certificates and hips is aiming for the stars...I wish I wasnt a lone person trying to buck the tide with unfashionable breeding  and health certificates etc...

Full marks to you I admire you greatly for what you do 

[*jean*]

got it in one Jean, they used to be bred for long lasting stamina, not a flashy display of speed...Mine are the same, if for some reason they cant get out past the garden due to snow, torrential rain, me having a migraine, they dont care as they know tomorrows another day, and are happy to lie about and sleep in front of the fire and the TV or watch over me as I sleep. Im quite down at the moment over the way the breed is changing...

me too.. I never thought Id say it but if rolos breeder stops breeding I may not getting another.
and I get horrible migraines and honestly they tiptoe round me and gently snuggle in as if to make me feel better. I couldnt cope with  noisy overactive nuts of dogs when Im sick. ok pep is 10 and liath is 8 but they are the same now as when they were pups liath passed all her obedience exams before she was 2. she walked it. Im sure the rest thought I was a right swot practucing all day but it was all down to lee. I did nothing between the weekly lessons..    she  naturally wants to please me. AND I met a man with 2 springers today who are 5. they were fat and looked 15. never get off lead. my lot did a fly by then came back to stand at my side while we chatted dogs. he thought liath and pepper were teenagers. they are so young and full of zest but totally in the right ways. they are certainley not angels pepper has selective hearing at times .. usually when I want her to show how obedient she is (not!) I blame her springer side!!  

[Nicola]

I know Im the exception...it is so sad, but cant see any of the big names going for optigen when they dont even bother with KC/BVA eye certificates and hips is aiming for the stars...I wish I wasnt a lone person trying to buck the tide with unfashionable breeding  and health certificates etc...

Oh I think they'll learn Kirsten and anyway, you'll always have at least one puppy buyer   

[*jean*]

I know Im the exception...it is so sad, but cant see any of the big names going for optigen when they dont even bother with KC/BVA eye certificates and hips is aiming for the stars...I wish I wasnt a lone person trying to buck the tide with unfashionable breeding  and health certificates etc...

Oh I think they'll learn Kirsten and anyway, you'll always have at least one puppy buyer   

I bet they will learn the hard way when working cockers start having eye problems etc.
 rolos granny tanner who passed away a few weeks ago.. her eyes were as clear as could be until the day she died. give it another 20 years I wonder how many clear eyed workers we will have then? especially with the upsurge in breeding and popularity.
 the collie trialling folk have been getting their dogs tested for some time now so if theyve got used to doing it perhaps all is not lost in the working dog world.
 you keep chappin awa kirsten!! 

[Cob-Web]

unlike pet spaniels a working spaniel may find its self confined to kennels for 60 to 70 % of the time . They dont all get hour walks 3 times a day. ( I dont know any that do they get out every day while the kennels are cleaned and have a runaround in the field then its back in the kennel until theres work to be done)

I think this is why so many of us emphasis the need for mental stimulation - a pet may not be confined to a kennel and so have more physical exercise, but it may not be expected to use it's brain even half as much as a working dog   

I met a lab puppy yesterday that is being trained to be a working assistance dog; in her first year with her fosterer/trainer, she will be taught over 100 different commands    That is the kind of mental stimulation that dogs thrive on; I am ashamed that my two don't know anything near that many commands 

[crazyspaniels]

I know Im the exception...it is so sad, but cant see any of the big names going for optigen when they dont even bother with KC/BVA eye certificates and hips is aiming for the stars...I wish I wasnt a lone person trying to buck the tide with unfashionable breeding  and health certificates etc...

keep it up, someone has to save the breed from going down the road of hips, eyes and other problems, as educated dog owners we should be putting the health of the breed first and supporting breeders who are the pioneers instead of accepting that it happens but still buying intested pups.

[PennyB]

Sadly we're seeing more and more here, mainly through ignorance of not actually knowing they have a working cocker in the 1st place.

I find it sad when we get in the likes of Snoopy, beautiful black working cocker, who age 8 had spent 6 years living in a back yard with little stimulation or walks or comfort (he was too much for his owners so keeping him in the yard was easiest for them), and Charlie the year old blue roan who was taken to the vets to be pts as he was 'bad' when actually he was a normal working cocker who needed a bit more exercise and stimulation than he was getting. More of these are being bred by BYBs and so more will end up in rescues or pts, and we won't know the figures as some rescues just don't know they have a working cocker (we had 3 in the space of 6 months and we're only a very small rescue --- we have seen more in the dog pounds when we go to pick up as well).