Tail docking law

[Jane S]

The current Minister seems to have accepted that tail damage is a risk for working dogs & has indicated he will consider an exemption from the docking ban for those dogs so I think it unlikely that there will be a total ban. How this is going to be worded is anyone's guess - governments do not have a good record when it comes to drafting canine related legislation :roll: If working dogs are still going to be allowed to be docked, then you will still see docked gundogs in the show ring as many of these breeds remain dual purpose (GSPs, GWPs, Vizlas etc) & there are even some Cocker exhibitors who show & work their dogs very successfully.

Jane                    

[Donzer]

I was chatting to a very good friend of mine who is a spaniel breeder on Sunday.  She is very active in the fight to keep docking tails for any dog and is currently heavily involved in the meetings being held in Edinburgh where they are trying to pass this absurd law.

I believe that docking should be done.  I have 2 cockers and would not buy a pup from a breeder who doesn't dock the tails.  A cocker spaniel should not have a tail. Simple!

The tails for cockers are too heavy and surely this causes issues with the weight.  I have heard of owners who have had to get their dog's tail amputated simply because the small spaniel cannot support the weight and the tail drags along the pavement behind them.  Just think how horrible that would be!  Surely it is better to dock the tail when the dog is very young (proper docking - not hacked off) than have it go through an amputation later in life?

The tail for a cocker is not a 'cocker tail' anyway.  It is a Setter Tail.  So surely that is way to heavy for a small cocker to humph around.

There is an address you can write to to express your feelings FOR DOCKING.  We need the letters to be in by the 2nd of July and need as many people as possible to write expressing the reasons why dogs tails should be docked.  Should anyone want the address please email me at Donna.Hall@gpass.co.uk and I will only be too happy to forward it to you.

Remember if this law is passed, it is not only Spaniels that will suffer.  Dobermans, Rotweilers, Jack Russels the list is endless, will all suffer also.                    

[Magic Star]

I believe that docking should be done.  I have 2 cockers and would not buy a pup from a breeder who doesn't dock the tails.  A cocker spaniel should not have a tail. Simple!


The tails for cockers are too heavy and surely this causes issues with the weight.  I have heard of owners who have had to get their dog's tail amputated simply because the small spaniel cannot support the weight and the tail drags along the pavement behind them.  Just think how horrible that would be!  Surely it is better to dock the tail when the dog is very young (proper docking - not hacked off) than have it go through an amputation later in life?

The tail for a cocker is not a 'cocker tail' anyway.  It is a Setter Tail.  So surely that is way to heavy for a small cocker to humph around.

Sorry but I totally disagree with you!  If cockers shouldn't have tails, then why where they born with them? :?   My cocker has a tail, its certainly not heavey nor does she drag her tail on the pavement behind her, nor do any of the many many cockers that remain with tails have any problems, dragging around a tail :roll:  

I would say that my girl has a cocker tail too, not a setter, as she was born a cocker, its wasn't stuck on later!  I am pretty openminded about things, I do have my opinions based on knowledge available to me, if they are the only reasons, you feel that a cocker should be docked for, then I am afraid you have a lot more convincing to do :wink:

I really don't understand that anyone would dock a pup, based on those reasons alone :?  

Back to the showring, if ALL pups had to remail with tails, then surely there would be no case of the dog not doing well in the ring

Edited to add..... Whereever I seem to go people come up to me and say "Ohhhh a cocker with a tail, how lovely to see" they look so much better with a tail"                    

[bluesmum]

The tails for cockers are too heavy and surely this causes issues with the weight.  I have heard of owners who have had to get their dog's tail amputated simply because the small spaniel cannot support the weight and the tail drags along the pavement behind them.  Just think how horrible that would be!  Surely it is better to dock the tail when the dog is very young (proper docking - not hacked off) than have it go through an amputation later in life?

The tail for a cocker is not a 'cocker tail' anyway.  It is a Setter Tail.  So surely that is way to heavy for a small cocker to humph around.

Hi Donzer

I have two cockers one with a tail and one without both living very happily and both are very beautiful dogs

My boy Blue born with a 'COCKER' tail has no problems whatsoever and carries his tail proudly :wink:                      

[Silver Surfer (indiesnan)]

Remember if this law is passed, it is not only Spaniels that will suffer.  Dobermans, Rotweilers, Jack Russels the list is endless, will all suffer also.

Erm!! excuse me, but why will they suffer.?  :?                    

[Roba]

I have two cockers both with tails and I think they look absolutely gorgeous.Neither of them have had any problems with their tails from going into brambles and other sorts of undergrowth and they certainly dont drag along the ground.I must say that I dont think docking should be made illegal as long as it is done by a vet.I didn't look for an undocked puppy but whether a puppy has a tail or not,if it is from a reputable breeder and has a good temperament then i would buy either.                    

[Pipers Mummy]

I know that another  'dock/not to dock' debate is not required on this forum, however, I feel that I must also reply to you Donzer.

My Cocker also has an undocked tail and it most certainly does not drag behind her, in fact quite the opposite, it is held high for all to see and is in constant wag mode.  

It was a personal choice for us to select an undocked Cocker and I agree with Mrs Bo that often people comment how lovely it is to see a Cocker with a tail so I guess it looks as though it must belong to her bottom (not a Setter's :wink: ).

I am not against docking provided it is carried out professionally and it is a choice individuals must make, however, personally I feel that Cockers fit their tails perfectly!!                    

[CockerMad]

Out of interest, at what age to breeders have their puppies docked? Is it within a few days or weeks of being born?                    

[Luvlylady]

Im not sure whats the best , I know of  lots of cocker owners and speaking to the ones that have tails a few seem to have sliced there tails in bushes and brambles while out  . so im not sure whats best to let them keep hurting there tails or to remove while young and live life without injuries.

Then again if you have a cocker that dosent run about mad in forests and feilds then why have your cocker docked?
Personly I think people should be given the choice . or the breeder at least and with so many more undocked cockers going in the ring then I can imagen alot more breeders will stop docking anyway.

As for being crewl there are lots of other crewl things , mabe a law for Getting rid of puppy farmers should be top of the list for dog laws! the problem being many pups are killed and mothers and farthers too.thrown away like a piece of meat , carrying infections that can be passed on to other dogs that problem is not only deadly but can be a painful death too
I think thats a far more important subject to start on then docking .where most of the time dogs are profesionaly docked and carry on to live healthy lives
mabe once that problem is sorted we should start on docking , but i think the list of whats more important has got a little mixted up , id much prefer to see less dogs die for the sake of a few peoples pockets!                    

[bluesmum]

As for being crewl there are lots of other crewl things , mabe a law for Getting rid of puppy farmers should be top of the list for dog laws! the problem being many pups are killed and mothers and farthers too.thrown away like a piece of meat , carrying infections that can be passed on to other dogs that problem is not only deadly but can be a painful death too
I think thats a far more important subject to start on then docking .where most of the time dogs are profesionaly docked and carry on to live healthy lives
mabe once that problem is sorted we should start on docking , but i think the list of whats more important has got a little mixted up , id much prefer to see less dogs die for the sake of a few peoples pockets!

I dont think anybody would disagree with you Nicol about the puppy farm's and this I'm sure is a major concern to us all  

The docking law is being put to the government wether we like it or not and so is up for discussion, I heard the law had been passed which I now know it hasn't, and that is what this thread was all about not wether it is cruel or not to dock, I think sadly Donzer made some comments about undocked dogs which in my experience having an undocked cocker are totally untrue and those of us with undocked dogs felt the need to defend them and set things straight as I'm sure you would if things were said that were untrue of your lovely Bella :wink: !                    

[Luvlylady]

Yup i know what your saying , i too know that not all undocked cockers drag there tails i think most people know that , i just wish the goverment would put these things in order of importance to be brought up i know tail docking has to be talked about i just wish they weould sort out more important things first .
I think tail docking in working or active dogs is fine it prevents pain , show and pet cockers dont really need to be docked , i hear there talking about stoping dew clawing too any idea as to why ?? i thought it prevented pain from claws curling ? am i wrong  :?                    

[Katina]

Docking was banned in my country in 1996. I have _NEVER_ seen or heard a cocker to damage it's tail. And the tail may be many things but it's certainly not heavy, trust me.

I have 4(with full tails) and despite being showdogs, my dogs are used for hunting. We have never had any problem with the tails.

End of story  :roll:..

(oh and we don't dew claw either  , and they don't curl )                    

[Sheryl]

The only fault I have ever found with a cockers undocked tail is getting bruised legs when it wags into them.  Ok, I admit it, that isn't a fault really  I really wish the government would spend more time on the important things, like keeping bananas bent or sausages pink.... :shock:  :?                    

[Donzer]

WELL - thanks to everyone for their comments on my post!  I prefer to have my cockers with docked tails and if the government get their way I wont be able to have my cockers with docked tails.  Surely if the docking is done correctly by a vet or reputable breeder, then where is the problem?

In my defence - I mentioned the tail dragging scenario as I have seen it - and it is pretty disgusting when that happens.  The bottom of the tail was bleeding and weeping and all sores.  The dog wasn't happy and the owners were worried.  The dog had to go through an amputation which took weeks to recover.  I just think in these situtations this can be more harmful to the dog.

I also mentioned 'other breeds will suffer'.  It isnt just cockers that have these problems.  I have read dog owners information on how their dogs have damaged their tails when the breed should have docked tails.  Dogs with bloody stumps cause they have damaged them badly.  Or dogs that have had to have the tail removed almost to the spine.  Wounds not healing, or taking months to heal.

Also - the debate on 'only working dogs should have tails docked'.  My dogs arent working dogs, but are up on the hills with me all the time, running through the same wilds as working dogs.  Does this mean I shouldn't have docked tailed dogs!?? :?

I don't agree with judging in that un-docked tails get points deducted - that is wrong.  Both styles should be treated fairly and the dog should be judged on the tail that is there.

We should be fighting to stop the puppy farming - These low-lifes have probably started the debate over docking as they will not pay to get it done correctly.  That is when it is cruel - not if it is done correctly.

I know that these are just my opinions and alot of dog owners out there won't agree with my points and I know there are some dogs who have their tails and are very happy - but this doesn't make it right in every instance.  We should be allowed freedom of choice! :wink:                    

[Mike]

I don't agree with judging in that un-docked tails get points deducted - that is wrong.  Both styles should be treated fairly and the dog should be judged on the tail that is there.:

Increasingly, this is no longer the case - todays generation of those who judge base their decisions on the quality of the dog, not whether or not a dog is docked as believe it or not, docking isnt part of the breed standard  :wink:

I know that these are just my opinions and alot of dog owners out there won't agree with my points and I know there are some dogs who have their tails and are very happy - but this doesn't make it right in every instance.  We should be allowed freedom of choice! :wink:

I'm quite interested into how docking first came about. I've done some reading, and historically, many dogs began to be docked to avoid a tax that was levied a few centuries ago on working dogs with tails. Chop off the tail, avoid the tax. Just thought I'd mention that.

This talk of 'where's my freedom of choice' - well, if you start following that line of argument, do you think a dog would choose, if able, to have it's tail docked to mollify it's human owner?