Hip Dyslpasia

[Ulla R]

I'm intersted in HD cases in UK. Were can I find info of dogs been scanned? I'm a member of Cocker Spaniel Club and I get the welfare report, but does the info excist in the net? Here we have about 20% with C hips or worse.

Here is a link to finnish cocker spaniels and their Hd results.    http://www.saunalahti.fi/cockerit/jalostus...avaturokset.htm
The page is for parti dogs, just click the links to get others also.

A=healthy, beautiful hips
B=Ok,
C=slight HD
D=HD
E=severe HD

Kirjavat urokset=parti dogs
Yksiväriset urokset=solid dogs
Kirjavat nartut=parti females
Yksiväriset nartut=solid females
   
       

[Jane S]

I think someone else asked the same question on the Genetics board a little while ago, Ulla. UK Cocker hip scores are not published on the net at present, just in the Cocker Club Welfare Report & also in the quarterly Kennel Club Breed Record Supplements (which lists all litter registrations etc). Bear in mind that relatively few Cockers have been hip-scored in the UK compared to other countries (or compared to other breeds in the UK like Labradors) so we do not really have a true picture of the hip status of the breed in this country.

Jane

[Toohey]

Bear in mind that relatively few Cockers have been hip-scored in the UK compared to other countries (or compared to other breeds in the UK like Labradors) so we do not really have a true picture of the hip status of the breed in this country.

 

Hi Jane,
can I ask why breeding cockers are not hip scored on a regular basis in the UK?

[Jane S]

Hi Jane,
can I ask why breeding cockers are not hip scored on a regular basis in the UK?

Because all health-screening in the UK is voluntary I would say that hereditary eye disease is far more common than HD in Cockers but still only a minority of breeders eye-test. Also, it is only in recent years that HD has become a concern really - in the past the belief was that HD only affects bigger, heavier breeds but of course, we now know it can affect any breed but that the clinical signs are more noticeable in bigger breeds. Hip scoring is gradually increasing in Cockers over here but it's a slow process..... Incidentally the UK Kennel Club has introduced a new Accredited Breeder scheme & the only tests required for Cockers are eye-testing for PRA & gonioscopy (for Glaucoma) - hip scoring is not currently listed.

Jane

[kookie]

I had mine eye tested AND hip scored before letting them have litters.
Had they not been good scores then we wouldn't have breed.
I think anything that strengthens lines and promotes good health is a good thing.
I also took advice on the temperament side too.

[Jane S]

I had mine eye tested AND hip scored before letting them have litters.
Had they not been good scores then we wouldn't have breed.
I think anything that strengthens lines and promotes good health is a good thing.
I also took advice on the temperament side too.

I wasn't saying that no Cocker breeders hip-score or that it's not a good thing Karen I was just explaining the situation in this country - the fact is that most Cocker puppies are produced from parents that have been neither eye-tested or hipscored. It is only a small minority of breeders who health screen.

Jane

[Toohey]

Because all health-screening in the UK is voluntary

It's not compulsory in Australia either, but I think  (as I don't breed), that most  cocker breeders who are registered and belong to the breed club, do xray bitches at 12 months. My girl is being bred (by her breeder), and it was just accepted she would go and have her hips scored at 12 months, which she did. I just assumed it was the done thing.
It seems to be a requirement, or possibly an expectation over here, that good, registered breeders want all possible information, including hip scores and eye certs from stud dogs or bitches prior to mating.

[kookie]

I had mine eye tested AND hip scored before letting them have litters.
Had they not been good scores then we wouldn't have breed.
I think anything that strengthens lines and promotes good health is a good thing.
I also took advice on the temperament side too.

I wasn't saying that no Cocker breeders hip-score or that it's not a good thing Karen I was just explaining the situation in this country - the fact is that most Cocker puppies are produced from parents that have been neither eye-tested or hipscored. It is only a small minority of breeders who health screen.

Jane

Sorry Jane,

I didn't take it like that, I took it the way you meant it.

I'm just not very eloquent.
Though it is a shame that more breeders don't screen.

[Jane S]

It's not compulsory in Australia either, but I think  (as I don't breed), that most  cocker breeders who are registered and belong to the breed club, do xray bitches at 12 months. My girl is being bred (by her breeder), and it was just accepted she would go and have her hips scored at 12 months, which she did. I just assumed it was the done thing.
It seems to be a requirement, or possibly an expectation over here, that good, registered breeders want all possible information, including hip scores and eye certs from stud dogs or bitches prior to mating.

Its the same in the UK, Toohey, those who are members of breed clubs & involved in showing etc are more likely to health-screen (though some don't) but vast numbers of puppies in this country are produced by breeders who are not & never will be breed club members. Then we have the Working Cocker breeders who also produce large numbers of pups but only a handful of those breeders health-screen.

Jane

[Ulla R]

Here in Finland and in other Scandinavian countries it is  oblicatory to do the hip and eye scanning. You can not register the puppies if you have not done it for the parents.

I would say it is bigger problem with the hips than eyes. We get one PRA, HC or RD now and then but the 20 % of hip dysplasia is bad. I have one which is going to be operated soon for very bad hips. She almost can not walk.

[Kim]

I would say it is bigger problem with the hips than eyes.

I tend to agree with this statement.
Vary rarely now, do you see a Cocker fail it's eye test, but quite often high hipscores crop up in the breed record supplement. Remember that very few breeders hip score their breeding stock, so the problem is likely to be worse than it appears.
I have heard SOME breeders of particolours saying when I mentioned that I was getting my dog (who is used at stud) scored that it is unecessary in particolours as it is not a problem associated with those colours, but how do they know if they are not scoring ??
Similarly Luxating Patellas are becoming a major problem, but this is another condition that gets swept under the carpet.    With breeders on the dog's & the bitch's side saying they do not know where it comes from.    

[Jane S]

Vary rarely now, do you see a Cocker fail it's eye test.....

Yes but remember a lot of Cockers affected with PRA do not pass through the official KC/BVA testing schemes as they are owned by pet owners who get referred to opthalmologists by their vets outside the scheme so their details are never published. I have groomed several affected pet Cockers who have never appeared in the BRS because they have not been tested through the schemes. It is only a minority of breeders who eye test just as it's only a minority (even smaller) of UK breeders who hip-score.

Jane

[Kim]

Yes, Jane I appreciate this. The point I was trying to make really, is that I think maybe more problems should be tested for instead of being hidden away.
Some well known breeders have dogs that produce certain health problems several times over & are still being used at stud.
No one says to you when you enquire about a stud "Oh no he just produced a litter of puppies with luxating patellas, or cataracts" you find out these things when its too late.  

All my statements are hypothetical & not aimed at anyone in particular.

[Jane S]

Yes, Jane I appreciate this. The point I was trying to make really, is that I think maybe more problems should be tested for instead of being hidden away.
 

I quite agree with you Kim - I wish we were more like the US or Scandinavia where breeders either have to test or wouldn't dream of not testing. It doesn't help that there is often rumour-mongering or worse when a breeder is open about things - after all, anybody who breeds for any length of time is going to come across some problem or other by the law of averages. I think it's the American genetics expert Padgett who says that every stud dog (and breeding bitch) generally carries the genes for several defects & sensible breeders should use the info to minimise the most severe defects - trouble is if breeders aren't open about these things, then the info isn't available to be used

Jane

[Toohey]

Can I ask what happens if a dog is diagnosed with an inheritable condition, such as HD or LP at a very young age, what percentage of breeders would accept responsibility, and either cover veterinary costs or replace the pup? Especially if the affected pup came from a registered and well known breeder that does not routinely health test?