Training class disaster

[Ange]

Hi All

Took Poppy to training class tonight, we have been going for about the last 5 weeks.  Tonight one of the helpers, not the main trainer came over and said I was being too soft on Poppy.  At the time we was doing a sit stay, but Poppy kept flopping down ( she had gotten herself all hot and bothered as she is sooo excited by the other dogs, plus she is still a baby at 19 weeks).  He grabbed her by both sides of the collar and made her go into a sit, she was obviously upset by this and nipped him. He wasnt bothered and continued making her go into a sit.  He then went onto tell me I should hit her when she does wrong, as I am going to ruin a good dog, does not seem right to me.  The main trainer is very good, and the lady who trains the top class is excellent.  Do I just ignore this guy or has he got a point, that I am letting her get away with not doing what I am asking and I am asking for trouble in the future.

Sorry its so long
Ange                    

[Anonymous]

Hi Ange  

Never attended a puppy class !!!! But i do know that hitting a dog will not solve anything !!!! And you shouldnt do it !!!!
It can make them aggressive and very apprehensive of you !!!! So on that point he is definately wrong !!!! And i wouldnt accept someone being rough !!!! If it had been me i would have had a word with the main trainer !!!!                    

[Silver Surfer (indiesnan)]

Well  Ange, i,m  afraid  i  would  have  smacked  him one.

  that  is  no   way  to train  a dog  let  alone  a pup.

 and  i  think  you  should  tell the  trainer.  Poor  Poppy,  

 i   think  if the trainer doesnt  do  anything about this,

 i would  look elswere. And  no  he  hasn,t  got  a  point,

 training  a  dog  by  hitting  it , is  definatley wrong,                    

[Mike]

Dont just ignore him Ange - tell the main trainer and the lady who normally runs the class. They'd probably be aghast at his so-called 'advice', which is blatantly wrong - no reputable trainer would advise anyone that they should hit their dog And also dont let him put you off - carry on doing what you're doing and if you have any areas of concern or feel Poppy isnt progressing, then speak to the main trainer or the lady who runs the class, who will know what they're talking about                      

[*Jay*]

I wouldn't tolerate that at all Ange Like you say, Poppy is still a baby but she isn't going to learn by being hit At my class, when Dallas is doing a sit-stay and flops down, they tell me not to worry, as the main fact is that he is staying. At that age, what does it matter if they are sitting, lying down or standing on their head - the main object is to get them to stay. Its really only when you progress through the classes that a sit-stay means sit-stay When I do sit-stays with Vegas, we have to walk around the room three times and if he flops down, then I have to go back and put him in the sit position but not by force - if he doesn't respond to the command then a bit of chicken under his nose and raising it up slowly while saying sit does the trick. Maybe you could try doing this with Poppy next time she flops down but I certainly wouldn't use that imbocile's method.....if anyone will ruin a good dog, it would be him with that attitude. Oh, and don't let that one incident put you off the classes - they are great fun                    

[LindaW]

I would definitely find another training class if you can.  If there is another one in your area, ask if you can go along and observe before taking your cocker along so that you make sure their methods are kind.

Manhandling dogs into sits and using force should not be used nowadays.  The empahsis is on kind reward based training.  Your cocker is stilll very young and now is the time to start training but it should be fun!  Also try practicing with him throughout the day (just a couple of mins several times a day will  pay dividend).

HTH                    

[Ange]

Thank you everyone for your replies, your comments have just confirmed what I already thought.  I will go next week and speak to the main trainer, I will tell him that I dont want that man near Poppy again.  I am sure he will understand.  I wouldn't mind but Poppys training is really coming along at home and when we are out (except lead training), it is only at training class she gets so excited.

Thanks again everyone
Ange                    

[Jenney]

I cannot believe the advice the guy is handing out  ! Think I'd probabley have whacked him one! My trainer tells me off for the tone of voice I use with Jake sometimes, I'm too strict  , training should be fun for both of us!                    

[PennyB]

The puppy class I go to only promotes positive reinforement, which means rewards of any kind but no hitting (which is negative reinforcement anyway). Wilf now 18 weeks regularly falls asleep during sit-stays but while I've become the butt of friendly jokes (in a nice way) no one has ever suggested anything like physical punishment. Martin our trainer has always said that young puppies can't hold their concentration for too long anyway.                    

[Anita]

I agree with whats already been said. I stopped taking Phoebe to training classes as she just got so excited and was too busy investigating smells. She was progress fine at home and she has mastered the basic commands.

It was useful for picking up a few tips but thats about it.                    

[PennyB]

Often though if you train in the isolation of your home dogs do not get the benefit of learning to respond if there are distractions around, which is what the puppy class is all about.

On her own Ruby does a perfect sit, stay or recall, but out on the park there are as many distractions as there would be in a class.

Our classes are 45 min long with 15 min to ask the trainer any queries about probs people may be having, which is why I find them useful.

These classes are also useful for those people who often on a day to day basis don't meet many or any dogs when they go out walking and so their dogs learn to behave round other dogs and socialize in relative safety.

Don't worry that you feel your dogs are showing you up or may not be learning much in these classes it will all click into place eventually as at this stage it can take time. I would get a new training class though as bad trainers can do more harm than good in the long run. I guess I'm lucky with the classes we go to even if our class is a bit of a hike for a car-less person like myself (but then the whole adventure of buses and trains etc. is turned into a learning experience for Wilf as well).

Classes are as much about training the owner if anything                    

[Anonymous]

Hi Ange

Sorry to hear of the problems you had at training  I would find a different training place!  I have had one dog ruined by a BAD training class once before  That is why I am very very reluctant to take Indie to one.  There are some very good ones around, its just finding them, ask your vets maybe.  Some of the classes think they have success when a dog sits, stays, no matter how they got the dog to do it :-  Train Poppy the way you feel she should be trained, and if that means it takes longer, then so be it.  Your her mum and she will respond to you as she gains trust and will be way ahead of other dogs who are trained by fear.

good luck

Emma