Do Reds see red?

[pwhite48]

I've heard a rumour from another Cocker owner that Reds aren't so good with children.  Is there any truth, or link between doggy colours and their behaviour?                    

[TOPAZ BILLY]

I was told this by a breeder but she was selling me a blue roan at the time.

But I have met some lovely reds.

There is a link on here somewhere to an article about cocker rage, I am sure someone with a bit more knowledge than me will track this down for you.

M                    

[Mike]

Reds are stereotypically associated with cocker rage syndrome, but although this condition does exist, it has been kind of sensationalised by the media (understatement  ). It's good to at least be aware of this condition, so take a look at this link here about the rage syndrome:

http://www.cockerspanielrage.org.uk/  

In all likelihood, your friend has perhaps seen a few cockers not behaving well around children, that happen to have been red. It goes without saying that any dog will only be as well balanced, socialised and trained as the amount of effort that you put into it - sadly, not everyone does this, hence there can be dogs unsociable with children in any breed. I know you're looking for a red or golden cocker, so I'd carry on with your search if I were you, just make sure that you stick to reputable breeders                    

[Anonymous]

Absolutely agree Mike!!  However may I add that it's not just Cockers that the "rage syndrome" affects I think dobbies, rotties, GSD and golden retrievers can be affected by this condition too.  Although when I bought my GSD nothing was mentioned  I think its very rare now as I know the GOOD breeders have been trying to breed this out of the lines, it was in the 80'S that all the bad press came about so there has been 20 years to right the wrong

I hope i'm right on this!!!

Emma and Indie                    

[Mike]

There's a list on the cocker rage website of other breeds that the rage syndrome has been reported in - all those you say are included Emma.

As to whether it's more or less rare these days I guess is tricky to answer. It was never proven categorically that it was an inherited condition - indeed studies are still ongoing, and you can read a really good article about these on the Research page of the rage website:

http://www.cockerspanielrage.org.uk/rage_s...drome_ward1.htm

The only thing that makes me say it's tricky to know, is that all of these breeds in question have been bred numerically by non-reputable breeders during the last decade... if the reported numbers are up, then it could seemingly point towards the condition being due to poor breeding at least in part. I'd be very interested to know what other people think                    

[Shirley]

Hi there
I can only speak from personal experience but my red/gold cocker is brilliant with children - when Morgan's playing with my 2 year old nephew I can honestly say that the dog the one who is better behaved    He is never left alone with the dog, but that's as much for the dog's safety as the child  

I'm no expert but I spoke to dozens of breeders when I was looking for Morgan and learned quite a bit about rage.  Most of the breeders I spoke to thought that in a lot of cases rage is being blamed where poor breeding, socialisation, and training is actually the cause of a lot of agression.  In saying this none of the breeders tried to tell me that the condition didn't exist.

Cockers (whatever colour) are intelligent (although I have questioned this at times) and very strong-willed.  They are often determined to get their own way - so be prepared to be even more determined.  Let them off with something once and they expect to get away with it every time  .

I didn't care what colour of pup we got but my partner had his heart set on a gold.  If you want a gold/red then you should not let the existence of rage put you off - just be careful when choosing you breeder.

Happy searching - you've definately made the best choice of breed    I wouldn't be without my stubborn little beggar  

Shirley                    

[Hel]

Hi

I've known lots of golden/red cockers and only one with rage (and I'm unusual for knowing a rage dog).  Any dog not socialised properly can be difficult with children - in the same way that children not socialised properly with dogs can make a dog's life hell.

Rage, in my view and from my limited personal experience of one dog, is a mental problem, akin to epilepsy, and has nothing to do with upbringing, socialisation, etc.  Many people who have an aggressive cocker blame it, completely wrongly, on rage.  Rage and aggression are not the same at all.  Aggression in cockers is usually due to poor upbringing, lack of socialisation, and people who buy them thinking they are lap dogs, people who buy them because they are cute but don't train, etc., etc..

The vast majority of cockers are wonderful.  One of my rescues, Pip, has been treated very badly in his life - but still retains his love and trust for humans, and is 100% safe around any child.                    

[Luvlylady]

ive had one gold and one red well some people say there the same:D and a blue roan , i had one from a puppy farm and it had rage and the other from a breeder and it was fine . there are sooo few cockers with rage , i cant rember the percentage but you dont need to worrry

the main reason for rage is puppy farms and interbreeding . so go and get a good breeder and you should be fine ,,, most breeders are willing to refund and take the dog back no matter whats wrong . that shows that they are dedicated to breeding and not breeding for your cash!
This red( agressive) is not just linked to cockers ive seen it writen about other dogs before . its a bit like they say chestnut horses are when most arent.... or like people with red hair have short tempers.. only a few might have and thats where they got the sayings from.
On this note anyone who thinks they have a cocker with rage please let the team at cocker rage know there trying there best to figure out whats going on:) they linked it to bad breeding /interbreeding /mental problems , mine had epilepsy too but that kind of sorted her rage prob out                    

[Anonymous]

:-I am not so sure "interbreeding" is the problem!!  As a lot of show lines and "reputable breeders" do this to get the best from the breed.  Maybe I am wrong on this but perhaps one our breeders could put me right!!  It's more down to "bad breeding" maybe not looking at the lines that the mum n dad have come from  Or maybe its just pure bad luck!  I do believe that this problem is not as widespread as it used to be. although saying that, my hubbie wanted a gold/red and every breeder we spoke to asked do we have kids, once replied yes, they tryed to steer us clear of the gold/red  Perhaps they were just being very professional and not wanting any comeback, I guess it is their duty to inform people of past issues  So the buyer is able to make an informed decision, I did want a gold/red but do have two children and decided on what information I had to get a blue roan instead.  Thats just my choice, although if/when  I get another cocker I will get a gold/red but I shall definately do my homework on where the pup is coming from, and if it means paying that bit more, or travelling the breadth of the country then I will  Although still this does not guarantee the dog will be fine but there are NO guarantees with temperament no matter what breed or colour dog you get.  Good luck with your search, and I hope you do get a gold/red and prove the bad press wrong

Emma and Indie                    

[Luvlylady]

Not sure because when i got in touch with wendy and linda at cocker rage they asked me questions and puppy farms or interbreeding was asked and we came up that mine more then likely was both , infact she wants me to give her the info on my old girl , i have got the paper clipping somewhere, ill have to get some time to go have a proper look.im terrible at looking for things got stacks of paperwork to look threw tut tut   the lady was about 60 years and that was about 14/15 years ago i wonder if shes still with us
i supose if its in the gens and is passed down to offspring then , two agressive cockers bred together might make rage?who knows.
as for red/golds i would def get another there beautiful.and very loving                    

[Jane S]

Inbreeding (breeding together close relations like mother & son) can cause health & temperament problems but only if there are problems there in the background to be brought out. Only very experienced breeders with a lot of knowledge of their lines would attempt very close matings for this reason. Line breeding (breeding together less closely related dogs but with some common ancestry) is more commonly carried out but again should only be attempted by breeders with good knowledge of the lines involved. Obviously no sensible breeder would mate 2 aggressive Cockers together (can't speak for the puppy farmers though ) as this would be asking for trouble. Having said that, some Rage cases have been produced by parents with excellent temperaments themselves although they may have dogs way back in their pedigree who are thought to be "suspect".

As everyone else has stressed, its important to put this subject into perspective. Any dog has the potential to have a poor temperament if the conditions are right eg ignorant or bad breeding practices, lack of socialisation by the breeder, poor training by the new owner etc. If you want a happy, healthy puppy (whatever the colour), be patient & find a reputable breeder who will help you whenever you need it & then put in the necessary work to socialise & train your pup the right way