Am I mad to consider this....?

[hanandhen]

Trying to get a rescued, 2yo, show bred Cocker to be a working dog (at the most local level)?

I've been advised by a behaviourist to channel Henry's instinct to hunt in cover, and when I casually mentioned the idea that one day I'd like to go beating, the guy's eyes lit up! So we have signed up for a local baby gundog class in the new year, and in the meantime I have been sending Henry into the hedges on walks - as a result of this new game his recall has improved hugely already. It had gone from being 80-90% good to going through a really awful stage but I would say (touching wood madly) that it is now better than ever. I think Henry is delighted that I have finally realised that the most interesting thing out there really are hedge bottoms

I had a long chat with the training lady and he says he doesn't sound beyond all redemption

Sooooooo - am I going to be laughed off the field with my fancy spaniel?

Also, has anyone got any top tips? What can we be working on in the meantime?

I'm quite scared  

[Helen]

not mad at all - there is a staffy and a gsd that go beating locally - both love it and do really well ...and a cocker of any variety is still essentially a gundog 

see how you go at your gundog classes and take it from there - you may be wise to get Henry trimmed a bit if you're going to be going through dense cover once you go out 

[Hurtwood Dogs]

No, go for it!

There are a couple of show types that beat around here and a local guy from the shoot club asked if I'd lend him Dave (show type) last year as he'd always wanted a 'go' with a cocker (he has a Lab and a Springer) I politely declined as Dave is a little unusual and really not up to that kind of thing but there is no reason why you can't give it a bash with a show type. My last show type was superb at flushing... just intermittently a little noisy about it so not the sort of dog you'd want in the field really Hunt drive varies massively in show types and getting him steady will be your challenge if he's had a bit of a free for all up until now but even if you don't actually work him, the training will be lots of fun and beneficial for you both - it will help you understand what he's doing and how to manage it and he'll LOVE it  

I take my Weim (she's a rescue with a very high hunt drive) to gundog classes occasionally but I don't actually work her as she doesn't have the right temperament plus I don't have the time, but she loves doing the exercises for a short period and it's improved our communication loads and it's very rare I loose her anymore too  

Lots of luck, let us know how you get on!

Hannah x

[SimonandMandy]

I am sure I can get Si to come along with something as he has been taking Harv to gun dog training for a couple of months now, although a show boy of very lazy relaxed temperament he still has a lot of natural ability and enthusiasm and responds far better to this style of training.  One of the biggest differences you notice from the working lines is energy levels but the training is great in improving obedience and steadiness (although can now be too steady...) and mental development as well as being really great for relationship development if done right.

Ideas in meantime would include whistle training for recall and sitting to whistle to start with, hand signal and direction training, sit stays etc although others may be along with better beginner tips.  Lots of threads about on these topics you can research.

Good luck

[hanandhen]

Thank you guys - I'll keep you posted Henry already has a short back, sides, front, top and bottom so he is all set in that respect

I think it is the steadiness that may scupper us but he is getting better (I think...) Yesterday we were walking at work and I realised a couple of colleagues were walking a way behind us with their dogs, so turned back to meet them so they could have a play - and Henry actually checked with me before he went off like a rocket - unheard of! I think he thinks I know something he doesn't about good sniffing locations

I have never had a Cocker before so have no comparison on working drive - maybe he's normal, but as I said on the other thread re puppy farms I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn he had some working genes as he is like a show dog that's been blown up a few sizes and his nose obsesses him. I do think he was a puppy farm special so it doesn't seem out of the question unfortunately - goodness knows where he came from or his mum is, I dread to think

We use a whistle, we can do recall and a 'this way' whistle. On 'this way', he is learning to look where I want him - I can direct him into the hedge near to me, or, for the first time this weekend, I got him quartering on a open field. Well I say quartering - more like one and a halving, as he currently has a turning circle like an oil tanker's But we can work on that, I guess!

He can do sit stays... 99.9% of the time anyway... and a fairly good off-lead heel with the aid of a tasty treat.

Sitting to whistle is the next challenge!

[Nicola]

It sounds like he's really enjoying what he's doing and I definitely don't think you're mad! Although I've never seen a show Cocker on a shoot or met one with quite the drive and energy of a worker I have seen them do some gundog work with dummies and really enjoy it and that's the most important thing. I'd see how he gets on with the beginner's classes and then after that you can take a view on progressing his training up to the next level to be shoot ready, it can take quite a while to train up to this level from scratch, especially with a slightly older dog. As said though even if you never actually take him on a shoot it sounds like you're both really having fun with the training

[hanandhen]

He certainly enjoys it - and I love watching his tail go nuts too He really gets focussed on his nose, he's gone and scraped his chest quite nastily on a barbed wire fence that was hidden under the snow but he didn't react at all (normally he's a right wuss) and I didn't even realise he'd hurt himself until the next day, he was so stoic about it all.

I know it will be a loooong time before we could even think about going on a shoot - I'm expecting at least a year of hard work before we hit that point.

He loves finding dummies - bringing them back can be more of an issue But here he is in action last weekend


I've since ditched the line for Henry and we're having a break from trying to get the dummy back to concentrate on recall. I'll get the dumy out again over the Christmas break though, in the house and garden again to start, with the clicker.

Thank you for all your advice, I shall certainly be back for more!

[Nicola]

He certainly enjoys it - and I love watching his tail go nuts too He really gets focussed on his nose, he's gone and scraped his chest quite nastily on a barbed wire fence that was hidden under the snow but he didn't react at all (normally he's a right wuss) and I didn't even realise he'd hurt himself until the next day, he was so stoic about it all.

They don't seem to feel anything when they're in working mode, Tilly ran clean through a barbed wire fence once and came back bleeding over her face, mouth and chest but still carrying the pheasant she'd gone after and she certainly didn't want to stop to be cleaned up   One of her legs could fall off and she'd still keep going   They've all had various injuries from barbed wire cuts (I HATE that stuff ) to puncture wounds from sticks and they don't give any sign of being hurt at the time, it bothers me more than it does them!

[Mrs K]

He certainly enjoys it - and I love watching his tail go nuts too He really gets focussed on his nose, he's gone and scraped his chest quite nastily on a barbed wire fence that was hidden under the snow but he didn't react at all (normally he's a right wuss) and I didn't even realise he'd hurt himself until the next day, he was so stoic about it all.

They don't seem to feel anything when they're in working mode, Tilly ran clean through a barbed wire fence once and came back bleeding over her face, mouth and chest but still carrying the pheasant she'd gone after and she certainly didn't want to stop to be cleaned up   One of her legs could fall off and she'd still keep going   They've all had various injuries from barbed wire cuts (I HATE that stuff ) to puncture wounds from sticks and they don't give any sign of being hurt at the time, it bothers me more than it does them!

I agree, Molly burst her checst in 3 places with barbed wire and never even slowed down....and she was just running about enjoying herself, never mind focussing on workkig or anything!

[hanandhen]

The other time Henry got himself on wire he was just hooning about (he found the only bit within about ten miles, wouldn't you know it ) it was much less serious but you'd have thought the end of the world was nigh, he was squeaking and shaking and everything. I thought he'd gutted himself from all the racket but it was a tiny, shallow scratch

This time it looks much nastier, although still shallow, but he didn't flinch!

[mcphee]

Oooh, I love this thread. Good luck Henry.Just for interest what did Henry do before you directed him into the hedges? My difficulty has always been keeping Rufus out of hedges. And yes, we have the barbed wire syndrome. Once he wanted to take a short cut back from a hunt and he launched himself of a bund and landed in the next field via the fence. He didn't even flinch and I didn't realise he had cut himself for ages. I have just taken some huge thorns out of him from today's investigation on the cycle track banks. Once he got his ears impaled on a roll of barbed wire after a chase. It did enable me to catch him, and he didn't seem to mind, except he howled to tell me where he was. Thank DOG things are so much better now.

[hanandhen]

Oh he still headed into the hedges completely randomly and vanished off, often reappearing approximately 100 miles away His nose overruled his ears and everything else, and he saw coming back to me as an end to all the fun so he ignored me! Now he is starting to get that I am part of the game, slowly but surely - he still goes deaf on the trail of rabbits but not for such a long time and it's early days, we only really started this on Friday but the improvement has been stunning. I'm sure we'll go backwards as well as forwards though!

Poor Rufus and his ears!

[mcphee]

Oh he still headed into the hedges completely randomly and vanished off, often reappearing approximately 100 miles away His nose overruled his ears and everything else, and he saw coming back to me as an end to all the fun so he ignored me! Now he is starting to get that I am part of the game, slowly but surely - he still goes deaf on the trail of rabbits but not for such a long time and it's early days, we only really started this on Friday but the improvement has been stunning. I'm sure we'll go backwards as well as forwards though!

Poor Rufus and his ears!

I love to think of Henry in "working" mode. Rufus had so many 100 mile expeditions when he was younger! He does still hunt, but not for so long and checks in regularly. However, I could never have worked him as he lets me know when he has found what he was looking for, very vocally, with different barks, so that would be a big no no. However, it is useful for me, because I know where he is. Silence with Rufus, when out of sight still makes me a little anxious. I accept that I will never have a perfect cocker, but he is so much better and that is enough for me!

[millrace]

just beware of the rabbit chasing/scenting......bunnies will run and drag your dog much further away than you would want....  when on a shoot as there are always birds infront of the bird you c,, and running to far scares them and gives the dog more to chase if you get the drift........

[MuckyMeech]

Hi Hanandhen 

It would be too big a coincidence for you NOT to be the HHOer of the same name- I should have thought to use the same name on both forums too (this name sucks but I can't figure out how to change it!)

On HHO I'm Ali_M and I am on here because we're picking up our 2mth old black working cocker tomorrow 

Speak soon x x