New puppy growling and snapping at adult daughters six month old lab

[Bettylove]

Hi
We have a gorgeous nine week old show cocker called Sidney and he has settled in really well so far, he is friendly, happy and confident so far. He is our first cocker as we have had labs previously. I would really appreciate a bit of advice as to what is normal for a cocker puppy. He is quite verbal in play and likes to bark and growl. But when he met my adult daughters six month old puppy he actually looked and sounded quite aggressive towards him and snappy.  The lab was playful but controlled and we watched them closely and eventually Sidney played with a toy with the lab puppy. We only let them meet for a short period. I guess I am asking if this is normal as I am used to having puppies who roll over in a submissive way when meeting an older dog- Sidney appears to not be the rolling over to greet type. I would be really interested to hear other people’s experiences and whether I should be correcting it or be worried about it. I realise normal play growling etc is fine in play.

[Pearly]

We’ve just introduced a pup into our household.  We have four adult Cockers.

We mostly let them get on with it and just keep a watching ‘eye’ in case anything escalates and the pup is harmed.  Dogs can be quite vocal, especially when asking to play (play bowing and growling) the older dog will either engage in play or ignore when they are very small - Kukri is now 13 weeks old and 3 of ours play with her, the fourth is larger than the others so we assume she will be next 

Cockers are known as cockerdiles for a reason - they are much more mouthy/bitey than Labs as pups.  You may wish to stock up on distraction toys, treats plus chocolate and wine for you!

[Bettylove]

Thanks- it’s good to know! We are totally smitten with him but realising quite quickly cockers are very much a different breed to labs. He is very funny and loving but I already get a feeling we may need to be quite consistent and firm when needed - as my daughter would say he doesn’t seem quite so biddable as a lab and already shows signs of knowing his own mind! I just wanted to check about the growling and biting, but you have reassured me as my instinct was to let them get on with it under a watchful eye. 😊

[Patp]

Have you never hear the saying "a lab is born half trained - a cocker dies half trained"??  Welcome to our world 

[bizzylizzy]

Have you never hear the saying "a lab is born half trained - a cocker dies half trained"??  Welcome to our world 

Oh y e s s s s  .   Three years of pacing up and down the exercise field every Sunday morning (all perfect there because he’s the born show off) but then we get visitors at home (showing off of the different kind  ) and its „Tut tut tut, I see you still haven‘t got him trained yet then - how old did you say he was?“ Grrrrrrrr

[Penelope]

Our Maximus is now 15  months old.  We had an issue with our other 2 dogs when we first got Max.  Dexter (the oldest and a cavalier x poodle) immediately put Max in his place and they get on fine.  Max is very respectful with Dexter and things are great.

However, Alfie (whippet x poodle) just thought "Yaaay, a new friend to play with" and he let Max get away with anything.  Chewing his legs, tummy, neck and ears.  I am very much a "let the dogs sort themselves out" kind of person as we had 5 dogs at one point and this method had always worked well for us.

However, Max got to about 8 months and got his big teeth.  All of a sudden Alfie realised it wasn't quite so much fun being chewed so he started trying to tell Max off.  Unfortunately, Max just thought he was playing so carried on.
We seemed to spend days just telling Max to leave Alfie alone..... This has resulted in poor Alfie's ears having a permanent kink in them from the constant scabs that formed where Max kept on at him.   

Alfie does tell Max off but very half heartedly and we still have to keep an eye on Max to make sure he doesn't hurt poor Alfie.

We have had cockers before - but never one quite like Max 

[Bettylove]

Thanks everyone for your replies, it’s really good to hear other people’s experiences
. He is a real character, very loveable and funny and yes I can imagine training is going to be a little more challenging than our last black lab who was always so eager to please. I love the term cockerdile- it makes total sense! We had a break through today my sons husky/lab came over and he is a gentle giant and Sidney although a bit hesitant gave him some kisses. This morning Sidney went to my husbands primary school and was literally stroked by 150 children and loved it! So I think we just need to work on more puppy socialisation with other dogs but i realise it’s very early days.

[Bettylove]

Just an update- Sidney is starting to pick up cues from the older calmer puppy and is slightly less frenzied than initially. I am learning his different noises and starting to differentiate between play growling and ‘I have had enough or getting too silly’ growling so then step in a give each pup some time out. The lab pup is very patient with him and gentle- Sidney just climbs all over him biting him but the lab is starting to let him know when he is hurt by a bite which is good. I just don’t want Sidney to think he can play with all dogs like this- he seems overly cocky at the moment!
Thanks for you advice 😊

[Digger]

Hi I just thought I'd nose in on this in case others are reading with biting issues (the dog-not them!)
Firstly, I think you are very fortunate to have another dog for the pup to bite hahaha!
Our darling puppy only had us and oh my goodness was she ferocious!!!! She literally had me in tears of frustration more than once.  We never had anything like that with our other dog (springer)- yes, the puppy biting as you would expect which stopped in a matter of weeks, but the cocker would literally launch herself at you. She would stalk you in the garden to the point it would creep you out! And it was relentless.

I think they do differ quite a lot dependant on their breeding background and I do think ours is particularly highly strung but the only thing that worked for us was giving her a time out in the boring hallway. Sometimes three times in a row before she got the message... and it took months to improve.
I think the key is to build a good relationship so the dog loves you.

Ours is now 22 months old and although she very occasionally and rarely might get a bit eggy at the end of a day ( and I would still exclude her in the same way for it to remind  her) she is 99% fine ( unless you are a bird but that's another subject)..

She plays beautifully with my 2 1/2 year old granddaughter and while I do of course watch them carefully I see my dog being very good. She will step back and let the little one take  her (most highly valued over everything) ball, brush her and generally be around with no problems. Once you get to know your cocker you can see if they're getting a bit over the top and  I think some will, for life. I never had to watch my other dog much-he was so predictable but cockers are different- you do have to constantly read them to make sure you know what's going on.
Saying that, ours has manipulated our life. She loves being with us so much and is so affectionate. We never expected it but we don't mind. We are the ones that get separation anxiety if we are apart for too long!

We have had a couple of slight guarding issues over the months (very common in the breed as I understand) but the other day I was out with the granddaughter and a huge crazy dog we didn't know came bounding towards the toddler and our little petite cocker took it on (noise only) and kept it well away from the baby and then came and planned herself in front of the child. It was very impressive. The owner said 'Wow -what a fantastic little dog-how did you train it to do that?' I didn't of course but they are intuitive intelligent creatures and at the end of the day isn't that why we invited wolves into our homes in the first place? They read danger in a way that we can't.

In my experience cockers (especially if you get a gutsy one) are very hard work indeed but ours calmed down significantly after her first season and now she is just finishing her second season I think we are starting to see the adult dog.
It has been a long haul indeed and ours is not perfect at all but she is safe and pretty good on the whole. I think routine and good habit forming is the way to go with them and they really are a dog like no other in the end.
I personally wouldn't worry too much about your pup with the other dogs. Keep an eye on them but I'd be grateful that the pup is being trained by a dog who speaks the same language-it'll save no end of shredded clothing for you!

[Bettylove]

Thanks, Digger it’s good to hear. We have been trying the hallway time out and it seems to be having a positive effective. He is starting to show some resource guarding behaviour with toys that he gathers up and takes to his bed, so we are working on that one at the moment- all ideas welcome!

[Digger]

I read a thing by Stan Rawlinson, an old hand of a dog trainer who also worked as an assessor for dogs accused of being dangerous. Actualcording to him, 85% of all guarding issues referred to him were cockers! So good to nip it in the bud if you can.
Ours is a little prone to it on occasions so I always stop and think..is the thing she's got going to cause her immediate harm? If not, leave it as she'll probably drop it when she realises I don't care anyway. I find its mostly done for attention. She had a dead rat the other day that might have been poisoned so we had to get that and she would not let it go. We had to prize it off her but I did go straight in with a hot dog immediately it was out.
Ours is very ball orientated and so I often call her to me and DON'T take the ball- just make a fuss of her for coming and let her hold it.
If you can avoid confrontation I think that's always best. Distraction rather an a fight!

On the plus side, our house is never messy. Someone on here said to me that cockers like to keep a tidy home!

And one of the best bits of advice I had was someone who said:'Don't take it personally-you've got to learn to look at your cocker and say 'you idiot' and laugh'.
If you can try that I highly recommend it!!

[Gerryjane]

Gun dogs are often potential resource guarders as they are bred to use their mouths. Very important not to take things from a pup unless absolutely necessary . Also to leave dogs in peace to eat. Teach a solid leave it and trade  any forbidden items for something else. I speak as someone who’s OH needed surgery on both hands as a result of a guarding incident.

[Digger]

Echo that!

Only a few weeks ago my friend needed stitches....over a tissue...!

That's why I say don't sweat the small stuff. Keep things out of reach to avoid the pup getting anything it shouldnt in the first place. Guarding is much less likely to become an established habit if there is no opportunity to do it.

Mine has lots of things scattered around the house that she IS allowed to have and we practice 'leave it' ( swapping for something better) with those things.
If she does occasionally get hold of something we need back quickly, I think first and go and get something really nice and if she leaves it she gets a massive fuss.
Although ours does definitely show guarding tendencies (natural, as above poster pointed out) I'm not overly worried as it is not extreme, but if you do have a dog like that I think it's important to always keep things in check.
All that said, our dog (despite being the biteyest puppy that ever lived..until she was at least a year) has never actually properly bitten us. Even now, she will argue with her teeth if I'm trying to do something she doesn't like but no skin has ever been broken.
She has good bite inhibition- she had plenty of practice!!
I'm sure your pup is fine and the more you get to know it as it grows up it will be much easier to tell what it's thinking. I think it's hard when they're puppies because they're just a zooming ball of flying fluff and you can't really see whats going on for a while!

[Gerryjane]

So right Digger.
Our 16 week cocker pup has shown no guarding tendencies at all but from day one no one has messed with his bowl, instead anyone passing has casually dropped a couple of goodies in with no hands near it.
 Now he is fed using scatters and treat dispensers etc as a lot of his food is used in training. He loves it ..... brings me his stuffed kong to ask for help if he can’t get the bottom bit of food out 

It was our golden retriever who injured my oh so badly ..... as a result of inadvertently being trained to resource guard by previous owner lacking knowledge and taking things off him.

[Bettylove]

Thanks for your replies. Food isn’t really an issue but he does collect toys. It was only at puppy social I started to get a little concerned as he took the toys under chairs etc and wasn’t overly keen to share. Reminded me of toddlers at pre school! We have been largely ignoring it but practicing the up swapping with things we need to get off him which seems to be going well 😊