CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: barnfind on March 16, 2015, 06:49:10 PM
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Have switched from the 'Feeding' section to here because I now suspect a more serious problem.
When I rescued 'the Lad' I noticed his poo was not good and solid. Despite my comment to the rescue kennel, I was reassured that it was probably stress due to being in the kennels and took this on board!
Having had Barney for a few weeks now I can categorically confirm that he is not stressed or aggressive (this note is for any insurance company rep that may be looking!!!) and despite my best efforts with an easily digestible diet ( yes, you insurance guys don't have to pay) his output remains loose to runny, and now has blood in the looser deposit. Furthermore, he has lost weight although he is still as active and doesn't appear ill?
A sample has now been taken to my vet for analysis and we await the results.
It is such a shame that rescue organisations (even KC approved ones) do not pass on the information a rescuer deserves!!!!
A case of caveat emptor again!! Totally p**d off!
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Hang on in there and keep your fingers crossed. Henry once had blood in his poo and runny stools, turned out to be nothing, and it settled down just fine.
How long has barney been ill for? Or do you not know?
Hope he's OK though........ :bigarmhug:
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Hope its nothing serious.
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Sorry to read Barney is not well - this sounds similar to Colitis which Minstrel suffered from as a young pup, if so his was treatable but I do have to be careful what food and treats he has.
Hope Barney is feeling better soon and you can find out the reason behind his illness :luv: My vet told me at the time that Colitis can be bought on by stress.
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Do hope Barney's vet can sort the sweet boy out and he is soon well. It is so worrying and the worse thing is was this known. I would see what the vet says and can advise.
When you get results I would certainly discuss with the rescue...I would like to believe they have a responsibility of care to Barney and certainly need to assist you. Do you have any idea if he was fostered while with rescue...
Hope some one can advise you more...
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Blood in stools always looks extremely alarming, but if it's bright red and fresh looking it's very often just that something has scratched or irritated while on it's way through the dog's digestive system.
Fingers crossed that it's something very simple that perhaps a change of diet and perhaps adding something like Dorwest Tree Barks Powder will sort out. Weight loss always sounds alarm bells too, but because you've only had Barney a short while it might just be that you need to feed a bit more or something different until you find the food that suits him best and the amount that keeps his weight stable. Hope you get some answers soon and that he's OK :D
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Really sorry to read that Barney is unwell - hope the results give some answers and whatever it is, is easily treatable
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Thanks all for your concern and support. I was a bit >:D yesterday but have calmed down now! :D
I am currently trying the Three Barks powder but as this has gone on for so long without a significant improvement I thought it best to take a sample to the vet for analysis. I also think it is Colitis but the lab will test for everything so I guess a course of anti-b's or somesuch will be prescribed.
Sadly, my e-mail some weeks ago to CAESSR about this has gone un-answered and the insurance will not cover for pre-existing conditions. Let's hope it is something simple!! ;)
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Hiya
Sorry to hear your lad isn't improving.
i posted about our Ellie had terrible colitis
when she first came and wasn't house-trained either!
It did take a while for her to settle digestive wise, as i posted
I used Acidopihilus caps from Holland and Barrett and
pro-bio goat yog as a matter of course for some weeks then gradually#stopped both
my feeling was that she needed to repopulate her gut with
better flaura and fauna and sure enough once the horrible greasy,
messy output stopped everything firmed up and was fine .
If he's having anti-b's the Vet might suggest pro-kolin paste
which does the same thing.
hth steffxxx
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Have you tried giving him yoghurt? If he doesnt actually seem ill, just doing runny poos, it sounds like IBS/Colitis which can be easily fixed by adding a spoonful of pro-biotic yoghurt to his food.
A few years ago, I had Nelly who had this condition. The vet prescribed some kind of paste which was quite expensive but which I managed to get all over my hands, but none into Nelly. The vet then said try pro-biotic yoghurt and it worked wonders ;)
I recently adopted Vera from a show kennel. All was fine with her until I got her spayed, then she got an infection in her wound, requiring a short course of antibiotics. This cleared up, but then the wound started to open up and she got another infection in it. She then needed a long course of antibiotics and predictably, she got the squits (often in my bedroom overnight). I'd forgotten about the yoghurt solution until someone reminded me. I bought some Activia and started giving her a spoonful on her breakfast and all is well again now :D
It's worth remembering if ever a dog has to have antibiotics, a little pro-biotic yoghurt can quickly restore the flora in his/her gut.
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Many thanks for your yoghurt suggestion I will discuss with my vet when the results come back.
As he is now loosing weight as well as the occasional blood/mucus in his stools, I thought it was time for professional treatment.
As a matter of interest, what weight are your young adult (18 months) dogs. Barney is now down to 10.5kg (from 11.6kg when I first had him) and the vets seem to think he is 2kg underweight?
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When Harry came to us at 8mths the weight dropped off him for the first few weeks, and he didn't need to lose any, I think it was all the stress of the move etc. he was about 10kg for a year and was a skinny thing.
Hope you get is sorted :lol2:
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A while back, the girls had what I assumed was colitis but I just couldn't get on top of it for some reason. I took a sample in from Kali and it turned out to be campylobacter. Hope you get some answers soon x
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Many thanks for your yoghurt suggestion I will discuss with my vet when the results come back.
As he is now loosing weight as well as the occasional blood/mucus in his stools, I thought it was time for professional treatment.
As a matter of interest, what weight are your young adult (18 months) dogs. Barney is now down to 10.5kg (from 11.6kg when I first had him) and the vets seem to think he is 2kg underweight?
Minstrel 18months was weighed last week and he is 12.6 kilo, which the vet said was good for him, but he did not need to put on any more. Minstrel suffered from juvenile colitis and it was quite a while - probably when he got to 12-15 months before he filled out and maintained his weight.
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CAESSR may be as much in the dark about Barney's medical history as you are I'm afraid - dogs are often surrendered to them with little or no information depending on the circumstances - in some cases they are stray dogs :/
I am aware that the team at CAESSR have some "challenges" with IT so it may be easier to call John or whoever your point of contact is to discuss his condition - hope you get some answers soon
I've not had a dog suffer from colitis but have got a rescue cat who developed it about 6 months after she came home - she was a stray handed in to my vets, who then asked me to take her rather than putting her into a rescue - it seemed to coincide with her starting to relax and settle in to the house. She's also had a recent bout of pancreatitis which was definitely my fault ( let her have some sardines in oil) so I now know that she has to have a very simple / plain diet. My preference would be to have her on a good brand/high protein food but actually she thrives on the cheap stuff :o
Also had a cat come home (age 12 weeks) with giardia - now that is unpleasant diawotsits :020: - then picked up campylobacter about 12 months later. She is also on a simple diet and will not eat human food, thank fully! Both conditions took some identifying but we're easily treatable.
Pearl cannot tolerate any of the better quality kibbles, she is predominantly raw fed but I do move her on to kibble while we are on holiday in the caravan. It appears that anything over 30% meat protein upsets her digestive system and I have to confess to feeling guilty that's she's on Vitalin Senior when my budget would stretch to much better quality food ph34r
I suppose what I'm trying to share is that it can take a long time to establish what works well for one of our furry friends and sometimes it's not the obvious choice! Wise decision in my view to get him checked. I hope it rules out anything more serious than an imbalance in his gut,
Jayne
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My Archie (now 19 months old) weighs around 11.6kg. He struggles to put on weight or maintain it (even though he is castrated). He was looking really skinny around 3-4 months ago (hipbones/spine etc clearly visible) so I put him on Millies Wolfheart gundog mix and he has improved a lot. I don't think he'll ever be anything but a very lean dog though. I feed him the daily amounts for a 15kg dog (around 85g x 2 feeds). Hope Barney feels better soon.
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CAESSR may be as much in the dark about Barney's medical history as you are I'm afraid - dogs are often surrendered to them with little or no information depending on the circumstances - in some cases they are stray dogs :/
I am aware that the team at CAESSR have some "challenges" with IT so it may be easier to call John or whoever your point of contact is to discuss his condition - hope you get some answers soon
I've not had a dog suffer from colitis but have got a rescue cat who developed it about 6 months after she came home - she was a stray handed in to my vets, who then asked me to take her rather than putting her into a rescue - it seemed to coincide with her starting to relax and settle in to the house. She's also had a recent bout of pancreatitis which was definitely my fault ( let her have some sardines in oil) so I now know that she has to have a very simple / plain diet. My preference would be to have her on a good brand/high protein food but actually she thrives on the cheap stuff :o
Also had a cat come home (age 12 weeks) with giardia - now that is unpleasant diawotsits :020: - then picked up campylobacter about 12 months later. She is also on a simple diet and will not eat human food, thank fully! Both conditions took some identifying but we're easily treatable.
Pearl cannot tolerate any of the better quality kibbles, she is predominantly raw fed but I do move her on to kibble while we are on holiday in the caravan. It appears that anything over 30% meat protein upsets her digestive system and I have to confess to feeling guilty that's she's on Vitalin Senior when my budget would stretch to much better quality food ph34r
I suppose what I'm trying to share is that it can take a long time to establish what works well for one of our furry friends and sometimes it's not the obvious choice! Wise decision in my view to get him checked. I hope it rules out anything more serious than an imbalance in his gut,
Jayne
Hi Jayne, thanks for an informative post.
This is the first time in all my dog history that I can remember a problem of diet that I couldn't fix or didn't appear in the first place! I used to feed the Springers on the cheaper stuff from my (then) local farm shop/feed supplier that, if my memory serves, was about £6 for 20kg and they never had an issue with it or their weekly 'roast dinner'!!! ;)
I would prefer to use Skinners Field and Trial as it is fed to many (occasional) working dogs that I know and they all thrive on it and it's cheaper than Burns or AG that I have been using.
Having been told by CAESSR when I collected Barney that the diarrhoea was due to separation issues I trusted this opinion despite my better judgement and treated him accordingly giving him plenty of time and tlc to get over it. I even insisted on having a sample bag of food from the kennels to keep him on the same diet although they didn't think this was important.
Hopefully this can be now be resolved and he can be gradually weaned onto a big bag of Salmon/rice from Skinners!!
Peter
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Hi,
I hope that you find the answer. My little rescue dog had similar symptoms and a very dramatic weight loss. She was eventually diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease which was unfortunately very difficult to treat. These little rescue dogs often have such sad underlying problems but then give so much back to the people that love them . With our best wishes.
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Hi Peter,
Confession time! Pearl has had anal gland problems (now removed and no longer a problem!) so I've tinkered with her diet over 4 years.... She's manly been on Skinners muesli or salmon and potato but did seem to lose condition with the latter. Although a show type I do work her - Ok she gets to run over fields and in hedges with no collar on ;) - and choose to move her on to raw for each season. This last year was her third season. The Vitalin was a standby purchase and is lower in protein. It's topped up with kronch oil. She does have a lovely coat now and seems to be doing well on the mix of raw and kibble (not in the same 12 hours for the BARF purists on here :D).
I will be buying the muesli again for the summer as it seems to suit Pearl best.
Hope you find the food to suit Barney soon. Have you spoken to Skinners? They will normally send out bags of samples (and vouchers ;)) I think it's Glenn that can advise on the best product.
J
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Sending Barney healing thoughts and you get good news soon
:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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I had terrible problems with Esme and her stomach when she was younger. Had all similar symptoms as you have mentioned, runny stools, blood in stools, weight loss etc. but she was absolutely fine in herself, running around with the others. Many trips to the vets and lots of £'s spent I moved her onto a raw diet with the help of a gastro-intestinal food from the vets to gradually change - hey presto, problem solved!! Happier pup and better poo's! I understand how worrying it is, I thought I would never find a food that actually suited her. Hope Barney is feeling better soon! :luv:
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My girl Brodie has suffered from stomach problems on and off since she had a bout of pancreatitis a few years back - the slightest thing (such as a change in the way her last food was cooked or a stolen titbit) leads to an upset tummy and horrible poos, often complete with blood. I've found the best way to deal with it is to stick her on a really bland food that she can cope with (chicken and potatoes) until things settle (which can be quite a while), and then slowly try to wean her onto a new food. Sachets of Yumpro added to her food helps as well. Unfortunately it can take a bit of experimenting to find a food that agrees with her :-\. She is on a very restricted diet now, as much as I'd like to spoil her with different treats etc., it's just not worth it!
Hopefully the sample you've given to your vet will lead to a clearer idea on how to treat/feed Barney :bigarmhug:
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Have an update for you!
The stool analysis has ruled out any severe illness, thank goodness, but Barney is still loosing weight (now 10.1kg) so the vet has prescribed a course of antibiotics to hopefully clear any underlying infection in his gut, and to continue his bland diet for now. Follow up appointment next week.
We had proof of my suspected intolerance to chicken on Monday night following him stealing a couple of small pieces of cooked chicken from his pal Eddie on our morning walk.
Without too much detail, the scene that greeted me on Tuesday morning at 6.45am was all the proof I needed to avoid chicken for the foreseeable future!!!! :o :o
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Thanks for the update i had been
wondering how Barney was going on :D
Worrying that he's still losing weight :huh:
Could he have 3 meals a day?
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Well that sounds promising that it is nothing very serious, always good to get these things ruled out.
Hoping the anti's sort it out once they kick in. Minstrel is not good with chicken either, I don't think peeps believe you when you tell them this, as it seems to be a regular standby for dogs with dicky tums, but it certainly made her's worse - with much the same result as you faced ph34r
I feed Minstrel 3 meals a day I started when he had Naturediet Puppy food and the amounts recommended were too much (I felt) for him to have in two meals. He gets on well with this so have not changed. Puppy Branston is also on 3 so it works well.
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Thanks for your 3 meal suggestion.
I should have clarified that until the 'chicken episode' on Monday, Barney had been improving and has not had diarrhoea being fed on Burns Sensitive Pork and Potato (with a small amount of Chappie) and I have been giving him a little extra as I felt that the 110g/day was not enough as I have been closely monitoring his weight and, with it gradually falling, wondered whether I was underfeeding. I can tell you that he is back to normal (for him) today.
The vet thinks he may be deficient in certain minerals but until the antib's have had a chance to work then I am to continue feeding as I currently am. We may need to have a blood test next week if they don't improve the situation.
His is full of energy and doesn't look ill but the weight loss must be reversed and that will be the next step.
Peter
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Would say that since Naturediet had all their problems I changed Minstrel over to Forthglade Lamb - I have since noticed that they put Chicken in this 'Lamb' dinner, so will have to see how we go. Had a few loose motions for a while - but things seem to be ok at present - so will stick with it until I have to restock. I do wish that the companies would label their food a bit clearer though. Both ND & FG are 'wet' foods.
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I think you could increase the food quantity to 150% of the desired weight. As others have said, when you've used antibiotics, the gut flora is wiped out so you need pre and pro biotics to recolonise with the right balance .
If the poop is cowpat consistency and yellowy - grey, ask your vet to test for EPI and check out website Epi4dogs.com. My rehomed springer had this, and it's lifelong and not on many vets' radar. They lose weight rapidly , being deficient in digestive enzymes. These can be supplemented.
Let's hope it's simpler.
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Interesting article on the news yesterday about the meat content of dog food often not being the same as the label. The quote was a beef meal that contained 70% chicken - on being challenged the manufacturer stated that "it was still animal product and was considered meat!" No consideration to dogs that are intolerant of chicken!
Glad you seem to be getting to the bottom :005: of Barneys issues - hope he starts to put with on soon
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Interesting article on the news yesterday about the meat content of dog food often not being the same as the label. The quote was a beef meal that contained 70% chicken - on being challenged the manufacturer stated that "it was still animal product and was considered meat!" No consideration to dogs that are intolerant of chicken!
Glad you seem to be getting to the bottom :005: of Barneys issues - hope he starts to put with on soon
Yes, I read that article and wasn't surprised by the findings! :o Animal feed is a huge business and very profitable so it comes as no surprise that clever marketing of the product is more important than using the correct ingredients that the unwary customer assumes they are buying.
Anyhow, Barney is much better after the antib's although his output is not ideal but we have, I think, got his stomach working properly as his weight has also increased by 1/2kg in a week.
Will be back to the vets again next week for another weigh-in and check over.
Whether it is a coincidence or not but he is now hoovering up rabbit droppings like mad and has been caught indulging in his own too!! :shades:
I know from other posts that this is not unusual (although infuriating >:D >:D) but has anyone any evidence that it is harmful? I did stop giving him the Dorwest Tree Barks powder while he was on the antibiotics and am wondering if it would help to resume the dose? I see from the 'Pooh Eating' posts earlier that some folk recommend Naturvet digestive enzyme powder as a remedy for this habit. Is this the same stuff, more or less, or do I need to add this to his growing medicine chest?? :huh:
P
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Interesting article on the news yesterday about the meat content of dog food often not being the same as the label. The quote was a beef meal that contained 70% chicken - on being challenged the manufacturer stated that "it was still animal product and was considered meat!" No consideration to dogs that are intolerant of chicken!
Glad you seem to be getting to the bottom :005: of Barneys issues - hope he starts to put with on soon
I had this issue with Forthglade Lifestage foods and their statement was we put in a small amount of chicken as a binding agent instead of using bulking material & nasties' :-\ hmm
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Just getting back to answer my own question............................!! :005: :shades:
Dorwest and Naturvet are different products with Naturvet containing some sort of fungii......................there is also Bionic Biotic to consider that seem to have a large number of supporters?
Good grief, when did dog ownership get this complicated???????????? >:(
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Bless you , there are lots of people on here that can sympathise and have been through similar experiences with their cockers .
Ernie struggled to gain weight and had bouts of upset tummies and colitis . I tried several different foods til I found something that helped him gain and maintain weight and that didn't upset his tummy .It came down to trial and error til I tried Millie's wolfheart gundog mix which suits him well . I still have to be very careful what treats to give him as the majority of things contain grain or chicken which don't agree with him at all .
As for the poo eating it maybe that barney is lacking something and that's why he does it or maybe he's hungry still or maybe it's a habit . Ernie is a poo eater , not his own but other dogs which has led to more upset tummies , he's improving on leaving it but it's taken a hwhile so if you can prevent barney doing it before it comes too much of a habit it makes life easier . Im in the process of trying digestive enzymes to see if they help with poo eating as someone on here recommended it but it's early days yet.
As for the weight loss as the others mentioned you could give 3 meals a day and increase the amount .
Hope you get barney sorted soon as I can really relate to how stressful it can be, my husband often jokes that we spent a lot of time discussing ernies toileting habits and that I'm very happy that his poos are now solid :005:
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Forgot to mention that I give ernie a probiotic too , I used to use bionic biotic but noticed it contained wheat so now he has yum pro bioactiv ;)
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I dont know if this helps but I recently had a very similar problem with my 1yr old cocker. I did the same as you and sent a stool specimin (which came back negative) but luckily my vet gave us Anti b's anyway. Im not normally a fan of random courses of antibiotics without a proven infection, but I am so glad I listened to my vet on this one and it literally cleared up by about 2 doses in. The vet said that often they may have a bug but it just doesnt show up in the sample as they only test for 2 or 3 of the main ones. She also had blood in her poo and the vet said, the infection had caused a mild colitis.
I also switched her diet to Eukanuba dermatosis FP, again on the recomendation of the vet as its very hypoallergenic (fish and potato based). It was a bit of a revelation to be honest, and I have never looked back. Her poos are vastly improved, skin less itchy and dry, and fantastic coat. She also put back on all the weight she lost. Dont get me wrong its not a fantastic food and doesnt rate well on the all about dog food website, but she cannot tolerate a food that is higher in protein, just gives her the squits again. Initially I was going to switch her back to something else once the colitis settled but decided to leave her on it as she is doing so well. The other bonus is that because her main food source is very hypoallergenic, i dont need to be so careful with treats and have been able to reintroduce most stuff with no problems.
I also use a pro biotic (yumpro bioactive) and have found this to be very helpful as well.
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Thanks Vixter for your comments. I have had the same result with antib's :D in fact, Barney proudly presented me with a perfect sample for Good Friday only trouble was he thought I was so keen to see it he left it on the kitchen floor! >:D >:D
Interesting that you are also using Yumpro Biotic and I wonder if this is your long term solution or are you intending to stop adding it after a while??
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I was planning to keep giving it for a while as it does her no harm and hopefully improves her digestive health. Certainly her breath is a lot less stinky :005:
May eventually reduce down to a month on, month off and see if I notice a difference. I also use yumpro oil as well for coat and skin. Makes me feel better about not feeding her a top notch kibble.