Puppy Aggressive Biting

[trongo88]

Hi

Had a post last week about Ollie who was getting very bitey before bed time. Unfortunately for some reason, he has started being very bitey through out the day, he would start off playing nice, then all of a sudden starts snapping at anything near him. My wrist and hands are full of puncture marks as some times when he bites, he shakes his head around thinking its a tug toy.  We put him in his crate for a time out, and he settles pretty quickly, but as soon as he's out again he's biting and growling. He does fall asleep in his crate after a few time outs. We think maybe it's just coz he's tired and grumpy, but even after a 2 hour nap, he would quite quickly start snapping again. Is this normal puppy behaviour? nothing seems to work like ignoring or yelping etc. he's just so focused on wanting to bite everything and everyone.

We are getting a play pen for him next week for time outs, as don't want to keep using his crate for punishment, and also bought some bitter apple spray. hopefully this will deter him from biting us all the time. He's got lots of chew toys aswell, but just seems to like our hands wrist heels and ankles.

[Ben's mum]

I think some puppies are more bitey than others, I remember Ben was horrible, nothing we did seemed to stop him we tried all the ignoring and yelping and it seemed to work him into a frenzy rather than stop him.  I was a very long time ago and I can't remember how old he was before he stopped, but I am sure more recent puppy owners will be along to give you ideas.  I just wanted to say hang in there as once Ben was through the biting stage he was adorable and a real cuddle monster 

[trongo88]

Thanks For the reply

Ben looks so cute and adorable. Ollie is also a black show type cocker spaniel. That's very reassuring, it's a shame because i feel like i am constantly giving him time outs. Just want to have a nice time playing with him and cuddles etc. but he just gets too out of hand I have no choice but to do this.

Reading other people's bitey post has reassured me, he's only 11 weeks old... so i guess will be a good few months before he grows out of this? Any advice on how to calm this behaviour, only a little bit would be greatly appreciated.

[lescef]

Maddie was a dreadful biter. My arms looked awful with bites and scratches. Bramble on the other hand, never mouthed at all, so they are all different.
Have you read the 'sticky' at the top of this page -The Bite Stops Here. I wish I'd had that to help us through the bitey stage. It seems to be sound advice.

[Pearly]

Please don't use the bitter Apple spray - Ollie is just being a pup......and his sense of smell and taste will be overwhelmed.  That's the sort of aversive training aid for older dogs that have a real problem you are unable to train......having used every last resource 

I posted on here yesterday about the stages of a dogs development.  The puppy phase includes the well documented "cockerdile" stage of a cocker......it won't last months but may be a few weeks.  During this phase Ollie is starting to develop bite inhibition and is finding his way in the world by biting and tasting as he goes......his nose is now developed and his eye sight is yet to fully develop (he can't see depth for at least another 2 weeks).  Your role in his learning is to help him understand what is and isn't acceptable.

If he jumps at you turn your back, fold your arms and ignore him.  If he bites, Yelp appropriately - louder the more it hurts!

There are lots of threads on here about biting puppies....I think most of us joined the forum for this very reason 😉 

How much sleep is Ollie getting? You say he's still wild after 2 hours, could he manage 3 hours sleep?

It does get better but you may want to stock up on wellies, wine and chocolate 

[Archie bean]

They can be very, very bitey and it's a nightmare when you have a really full on cockerdile. My mums previous cocker was dreadful. He was a pup when my Dad died. Not long after, Mum had a little fall and cut her lip badly. She had to go to A and E and while she was there they took her to a small room by herself  and started to ask all sorts of questions about how she was coping after losing Dad. It took her a minute to realise that they were concerned about all the scratches and wounds on her arms....they though she had been self harming. 

Archie was similarly dreadful. The bite sticky is an excellent place to start. I lived in Ugg boots to protect my feet and diverted him from hands with toys. But it's just time that really helps them stop.  Good luck.

[MIN]

time for the wellies and welders gauntlets 

[trongo88]

thanks for all the replies

unfortunately when ever Ollie gets bitey, he does not let go. no amount of yelping or anything works. standing up and walking away from him causes him to bite hard on our heels, whilst shaking his head as if he's playing tug with our feet. we have to pick him up, while he is snapping around at anything possible and putting him in his crate quietly. I hope he will soon learn that biting means he doesn't get to spend time with us.

we have ordered the bitter apple spray, but will maybe look into it more deeply before we use it.

[Pearly]

thanks for all the replies

unfortunately when ever Ollie gets bitey, he does not let go. no amount of yelping or anything works. standing up and walking away from him causes him to bite hard on our heels, whilst shaking his head as if he's playing tug with our feet. we have to pick him up, while he is snapping around at anything possible and putting him in his crate quietly. I hope he will soon learn that biting means he doesn't get to spend time with us.

we have ordered the bitter apple spray, but will maybe look into it more deeply before we use it.

Thank you 😉 It may prove useful yet when he's older and you need to protect skirting boards or other items.....they can be hard work and it sounds as though you have a real biter.....from what you've said, it certainly seems  as though you are doing all the right things.  He will quickly realise that he's excluded if he's poorly behaved.

Appreciate he will still be on the same food that the breeder sent him home with but he may have an intolerance to an ingredient - certainly worth looking at his food if he's a bit hyper 😉

[trongo88]

Hi

Yeah he's currently on wainwrights grain free puppy food. Gets about 70g per portion. 3 times a day, and some treats for training through out the day too. Like little pieces of boiled chicken and some puppy biscuits.

Is this too much for the young pup maybe? Maybe I should reduce his meal portions if he's getting treats too?

What ingredient normally makes a pup go hyper?

[Patp]

Have sent you a message x

[Pearly]

Hi

Yeah he's currently on wainwrights grain free puppy food. Gets about 70g per portion. 3 times a day, and some treats for training through out the day too. Like little pieces of boiled chicken and some puppy biscuits.

Is this too much for the young pup maybe? Maybe I should reduce his meal portions if he's getting treats too?

What ingredient normally makes a pup go hyper?

Hi

Wainrights is a really good food but it is about 30% protein!  Coral came home on the same, looked fabulous but was a complete nutter!  Have a look at the working dog puppy foods such as skinners or chudleys, these are ok and dont attract VAT so about half the price you are paying as well!  Food is an emotive subject but in essence, set a budget and choose a food that suits your dog and your lifestyle best.  Some dogs are fine on high protein and others seem to be hyperactive!  I choose to fed raw now as it seems to suit her best but I appreciate this isnt for everyone

[Archie bean]

I don't really subscribe to the high protein making dogs hyper suggestion. BUT I do think certain ingredients play a big role. When Archie was a pup the only food he would eat was wainwrights wet trays. The only flavour for puppies was turkey. He was a nut job! (Well documented in my early posts here!) When he moved to adult food his behaviour went up and down and I thought he was gradually improving with age. I was buying a mixed case of three flavours - turkey, lamb and duck. I realised that his manic days were turkey days. I did an experiment where he had no turkey for a month and then I gave him one tray of it. He was hyper. I repeated this a few times with the turkey I had left. Same result every time. I cut it out of his diet. I sometimes wonder if much of his puppy behaviour was down to him having turkey all the time.

[Pearly]

I don't really subscribe to the high protein making dogs hyper suggestion. BUT I do think certain ingredients play a big role. When Archie was a pup the only food he would eat was wainwrights wet trays. The only flavour for puppies was turkey. He was a nut job! (Well documented in my early posts here!) When he moved to adult food his behaviour went up and down and I thought he was gradually improving with age. I was buying a mixed case of three flavours - turkey, lamb and duck. I realised that his manic days were turkey days. I did an experiment where he had no turkey for a month and then I gave him one tray of it. He was hyper. I repeated this a few times with the turkey I had left. Same result every time. I cut it out of his diet. I sometimes wonder if much of his puppy behaviour was down to him having turkey all the time.

Some proteins are easier to digest than others such as chicken and turkey which may explain why Mr A  was more bonkers on his puppy food    the nutrition advisor at Skinners suggested their maintenance food for Coral as its beef based and takes longer to digest/release energy.

I've really seen a difference in Coral with the amount of protein fed in a meal - 100% meat and she's a loon, 50/50 meat veg and she's far better (and not hungry due bulk).

Wikipedia has a good description of protein which suggests that there is a connection between good quality protein intake and athletic prowess  . Coral has enough prowess without having to increase the protein level of type 

[hoover]

Hello from another owner of a solid black Ollie, who was a nightmare as a puppy!    We had growling/ biting problems that were related to guarding behaviours (resource, location and his own body guarding) but could distinguish this from his play biting and growling.  It was certainly a very difficult few months but I feel like we are out the other end of it now (biggest change was about a month after we got him neutered at 11 months)

When our Ollie was bad we couldn't even get near him to try to get him to the kitchen or his crate and we used to have him wear a harness a lot of the time so that we could get a hand on him further down his back rather than on his collar where he would twist around to bite our wrists.  Other people suggest a house lead to lead them away. 

I think at that age they love novelty and saving all your plastic bottles for them to chew occupies their mouths for a bit (what with milk bottles, juice, water etc you will probably get through maybe 1 or 2 a day) Put treats and kibble inside for them to try to work out and make it harder if they find this too easy by putting wee bits of chicken or ham in which are harder for them to get out.