CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: Chocolate Hero on March 17, 2014, 07:49:03 PM
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Just after a bit of advice, unfortunately after a few weeks of ups and downs with the bloods we seem to be on a larger decrease to 31%. The vets has decided steroids just are not doing the job for him and are now wanting to try azathioprim as a last resort. His white cells just will not quit at attacking his red cells. The vets are going to be contacting Edinburgh tomorrow to get more advice.
It feels like were hitting the end of the road, but just don't know when that is. We have both said how ever hard, we would rather him be happy and have had a good quality of life. I know he's not in pain but he hates not getting to do the things he loves. If we know the end of road is near we think we would rather lift his restrictions and let him live life as he has always loved rather than as an ill boy.
How do you know when the time comes to start coming to terms with making decisions, when there not in pain, but not getting the quality of life they deserve and just fighting to maintain a basic level? Never had to make the tough decisions with such a young dog, it seems cruel to think about it but i know we need to rather than it spring up at us. :'(
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So sorry to read this I had hoped things were stabilising, I don't really have any advice but just wanted to send love and say I am thinking of you. :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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Thanks, its good to know COL's out there helps as you all get how much a cocker becomes your life. Just thought we would have another 10years, not having to think this way after 2.
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Thinking of you Becs, really know where you are coming from re living his life not as an ill little boy, big hugs x
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I am sorry, not able to help you. Just wanted to say that I so sorry you are having to deal with all this and I hope you can get some help from somewhere. :bigarmhug:
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Oh this is so awful for you all. I have everything crossed that it will never come to you having to make such a hard decision. As we all know and love the cocker zest for life, it really is such a hard thing to have to think about but if it does eventually come to that, you know your boy better than anyone else and you will know what is the absolute best thing for him, even if that is the worst thing for you. Sending you all lots of positive thoughts and lots of :luv: :luv: and :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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So sorry things are not going well :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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My heart goes out to you :bigarmhug: You really shouldn't have be thinking of this with a dog so young :'(
I agree with Redked ....you know your boy :luv: I hope and pray that the vets can give him his quality of life back :huh: and that it won't come to that :-*
Sending :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: for you both xx
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This is just too awful to comprehend. Poor Jethro and poor you :bigarmhug:
I can't imagine not being able to exercise him - he must be so confused. Have you been advised not to? Or would it really set him back?
I sincerely hope the vets can sort out something that works. Life can be so unfair sometimes.
Thinking of you all xx
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I am so sorry. My heart goes out to you.
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He's to be kept calm (what ever that is to a cocker) he's allowed 15mins of walks a day which isn't enough but he can't cope with much more anyway as he gets out of breath.
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Can he go out in the garden? Maybe you could play 'find it' out there for a change? To be honest, if he has to be kept calm the barking is probably worse for him than a run around the garden. :bigarmhug:
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yea we play find it type games a lot but he's getting bored. At the moment its the drug changes & outcome thats the most worrying. Outcome depends what we do about restrictions. were getting by with the restrictions.
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:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: for you both :luv:
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I'm so sorry, what an awful predicament for you. This is just so unfair with such a young dog.
I really hope that the new drug makes a big improvement and that Jethro can have more exercise and less restrictions :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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Oh this is so awful for you all. I have everything crossed that it will never come to you having to make such a hard decision. As we all know and love the cocker zest for life, it really is such a hard thing to have to think about but if it does eventually come to that, you know your boy better than anyone else and you will know what is the absolute best thing for him, even if that is the worst thing for you. Sending you all lots of positive thoughts and lots of :luv: :luv: and :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
Absolutely agree.
I'm so sorry things haven't been going so well. Sending lots of positive thoughts and hope that things improve with the new drug. :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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I echo Emma's note above
So very sorry to read that Jethro's current regime is not doing what you all need it to - really hope he turns a corner on the new medication x
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Over 40 years ago a dear friend of mine was very, very ill, the medics said her white blood cells were attacking her red blood cells; In recent years (the past 10 years ) it was discovered that she had severe LUPUS an autoimmune condition, she is now much better now that they know what they are treating.
I am wondering if your young dog could have something like this :huh: only because of the blood cells first being thought to be the problem for her. It may be "clutching at straws" but anything is worth looking into.
Hope you find the answer soon. Julie.
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:bigarmhug: I don't really know what
to say
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So sorry to read this I had hoped things were stabilising, I don't really have any advice but just wanted to send love and say I am thinking of you. :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
Wasn't expecting to be reading this Bec's :luv: I can only echo what Ben's mum has said :luv: really hope you can find some meds that will help your boy :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: x x x
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I know first hand what it is like to have a very poorly youngster and I'm also sending you lots of :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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Just want to say how sorry I am to read of about Jethro, no advice but some gentle hugs for you all. I hope his new medication does the trick.
:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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What a heartbreaking time. Hopefully the vets at Edinburgh will be able to advice you more. How long will you know if the new drug will work? I think you are right though, in that the quality of life for Jethro is also very important. Cockers were born to run wild! :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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Thinking of you and Jethro :luv: :luv: and praying, that his new medication does the trick :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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Try not to see the addition of another immunosuppressant as a last resort. It's merely an addition to help control what's going on. This is the usual protocol for dogs who cannot manage on steroids alone. They used them with my dog Chloe and it gave us another 7 wonderful, happy years with her. I'm not saying dealing with AIHA isn't a struggle because it does change your life but it is doable.......once the drug regime stabilises things xxx
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I too was not expecting to read this :(
No advice but I am thinking of you and Jethro :luv: , willing his medication to work, and know that you will do what is the very best for him :bigarmhug:
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Thanks everyone for the support it means a lot. We had a nice walk at the beach this evening with fish and chips in the car, Jethro got a sausage so is a very happy dog. Cant say he isn't spoilt.
No news from Edinburgh, The message the vet was saying yesterday made it sound like this is the last option and not to get our hopes up of it working, and to consider the effects on his bone marrow. It wasn't our normal vet though as ours is on holiday. It sounds like they would like to be seeing an improvement either in levels or stability within a couple of months and ween off the steroids if they can. They still sound like aiming for a maintenance dose of one or the other drug is the plan if he takes to it.
Im still hopeful, husband on the other hand is needing a bit of a push to keep the hope up.
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Im still hopeful, husband on the other hand is needing a bit of a push to keep the hope up.
It must be so hard to remain optimistic all the time so I can quite understand it. On COL people who have been here a while will know that while we have seen some sad losses over the years of cockers taken too young :'( but we have also seen lots and lots of occasions where against all the odds cockers have pulled through from some difficult situations, I am constantly amazed by the fighting spirits of our little cocker dogs and how many times we follow a cockers progress and just see things pick up and improve even when you think it is impossible. If the power of good wishes and love on here helps recovery then you can rest assured that at the moment it is all coming Jethros way :luv: :luv:
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Just a quick update. Edinburgh have got back to us, the specialist doesn't think the dip is due to the IMHA and is possibly a consequence of the drugs. Were awaiting a full haematology to be able to see for definite what is going off. The other possibility is he has a minor gastric bleed. The specialist wants his steroids reducing as apparently they should have been kept high for so long. We have started a second gut preserver while waiting for the other medication and blood results, apparently his response to drop his blood levels like he has is unusual, with us keeping fairly stable. If we can get the medication reduced and him get back up and stick to the 38% the specialist will be happy with that.
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I do hope this is the beginning of good news and they can find a level of medication to stabilise him.
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I can't add anything to what has been said already.
:bigarmhug: to all three of you
You know if you and OH would like to go out for a meal or just a bit of time out together, we can offer some doggysitting time for you?
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I do hope this is the beginning of good news and they can find a level of medication to stabilise him.
Me too :bigarmhug:
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I do hope this is the beginning of good news and they can find a level of medication to stabilise him.
Me too :bigarmhug:
Yes same here, hope things start to improve :luv:
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Thanks Emma, thats really kind of you.
Thanks for the continued support, it really does help get us though.
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A little bit of hope, it is always a good thing. Hope this works out for you all, sending :bigarmhug:
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Hope with all my heart that the change in medication helps Jethro.
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Me too :D
Sending you and Jethro :luv: a whole
heap of positive vibes through the Ether... :bigarmhug:
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I can only repeat all the good wishes everyone else has said :bigarmhug: from Julie & Kez
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Continued healing and positive thoughts for Jethro from all of us too :luv: :luv: :bigarmhug:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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Lots of positive hugs, snuggles & thoughts continue to be sent to you all.
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Our last cocker had an autoimmune disease where her platelets were destroyed. To be honest our own vets although lovely would not have been able to save her. However, we were eventually referred to a specialist in glasgow and they got her better. Its like seeing a consultant instead of a gp, they have so much more expertise in a specific area. Our cocker needed to have azothioprine added but it was stopped after a few weeks once her platelets were stable. The steroids were then reduced over the course of a year. She was happy throughout that time and we had several wonderful years after that on no medication at all. We were so so grateful to the glasgow vet school. I know that all dogs fespond differently to treatment and not all are so lucky but I hope you are.
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Our dog Buster was diagnosed with IMHA a year ago and it has been a roller coaster of a year with him now on medication for Addisons, another autoimmune disease. He is off all medication for the IMHA though with his PCV stable at 40. He had been on steriods and also atopica as just steriods weren't working. I don't know whether this is the same drug as azathioprine but it certainly worked for Buster. Its an expensive drug but we got it online with a vets prescription and its a fraction of the price of the vets. Hang in there and while there's life there's hope.
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Our last cocker had an autoimmune disease where her platelets were destroyed. To be honest our own vets although lovely would not have been able to save her. However, we were eventually referred to a specialist in glasgow and they got her better. Its like seeing a consultant instead of a gp, they have so much more expertise in a specific area. Our cocker needed to have azothioprine added but it was stopped after a few weeks once her platelets were stable. The steroids were then reduced over the course of a year. She was happy throughout that time and we had several wonderful years after that on no medication at all. We were so so grateful to the glasgow vet school. I know that all dogs fespond differently to treatment and not all are so lucky but I hope you are.
Yes, Wilf developed an autoimmune problem recently which was diagnosed as immune-mediated thrombocytopenia as a result of a bad urine infection - I asked for a referral straight away - my vet had a hunch it might be something like this or worse cancer. The following day we went to Langford (Bristol vet school) and their 1st tests revealed he had no platelets. Their treatment was vincristine, high-dose steroids and antibiotics. Then it was each day at a time, now it is every 2 weeks (he has to have blood tests then).
I'm pleased I asked for a referral as the vet school had everything that is needed to support, diagnose and treat your dog and even now my vet is still working with their vet at every stage which makes me feel better at least.
Vincristine was their drug of choice as it gets them out the hospital faster and they can administer it better there as its also a cancer drug (used to stimulate the bone marrow). Wilf is still on steroids and antibiotics.
Wilf is still holding his own and I know I've done my best for him even though I also know it could change any time
Would it be worth Edinburgh actually seeing your dog and him staying up there - or are you already doing this - I would rather my dog be within vet school at this stage than everything being done 3rd hand all the time.
As has been said don't think of what they're suggesting as a last resort. When I was at Langford another cocker was in after Wilf and she was still on steroids 1 year on but being managed well
Hope you get better news soon
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Just a quick update. We have got the haematology results back in. manual PCV is 35.6% so coming back up from the dip (over the moon). His white blood cells are sky high which is to be expected. I need to do a bit of re-reading as my haematology is out of date and can't remember what all the other immune cell presence means. We are starting the Azathioprine in the morning, we have been given a nice treat from our vets as they couldn't get the make they wanted of tablets so have got double the amount of tablet this time and they haven't charged us for the extras so set for 3months :D, the staff at the vets are absolute stars.
The results have shown his guts fine so no leaky gut and its a continuation of the IMHA, so we can take the alternate route without the extra gut worries. Got to go in next week for full haematology just to check how he's getting on with the drug change. Were also dropping steroid from 7 to 4 twice a day from tomorrow.
At the minute from what they were expecting the bloods to show its reasonable news but were more than happy to take that. As usual the dougle is totally unaware anythings wrong. :luv:
Thanks everyone for the continued pulling us back up when were down . If this starts giving us the results we need i definitely think a celebratory cocker meet up is needed.
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That's really encouraging news :D :bigarmhug:
I hope the Azathioprine kicks in quickly and helps too.
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Great news, keep on fighting jethro :luv:
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That is great news!! :banana: :banana:
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Brilliant news, well done Jethro you star :luv: :luv:
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Wilf's white blood cells were high and it seems we've been told its due to the steroid use rather than fighting infection
Pleased Jethro's doing well
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Go team Jethro!! :banana: :clapdance: :clapping:
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I am so happy for you and Jethro.
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Hugs for Jethro and for you :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: hope things keep improving x
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So pleased for you all :luv: :luv: :luv:
:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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Brilliant news. So pleased for you all :luv:
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:cool4: :cool4: :cool4: Fabulous news. Hopefully it's upwards all the way from now. You must be so exhausted having been on a roller coaster for ages. Well done Jethro!!! Big hugs all round. :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: Diana
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Excellent news. Keep on the up, Jethro x
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Great news :cool4:
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So pleased to hear this news and thinking of you both and Jehro xx
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So pleased everything is going well - hope he goes from strength to strength :luv:
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DeeDee exhausted doesn't cover it to be honest we feel like we could sleep for a month. its certainly a 24/7 worry without even realising it at times. OH went with our friends dog the other day to the vets who had the appointment after us and she seemed shocked that all the staff knew him and didn't even have to check in, followed by the sack full (certainly feel like it at times) of meds, think she's now realised were not making it up when say we can't come out to play as much.
Your all amazing support though. Not so much team Jethro, more Team COL for keeping us going with the uphill battle. :clapdance:
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So pleased. Hope you continue to get good news and the roller coaster you are on will begin to level off :clapping:
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so pleased for you... :banana:
big squeeze for Jethro :luv:
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So pleased for you all, keep up the good work Jethro :luv: :luv: :bigarmhug:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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Brill! Here's to continued good news in the coming days/weeks :D
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That is brilliant news :luv:
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Keeping all fingers and paws crossed, mad hoping Jethro responds well to the new drugs ;)
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Well not the news we wanted, his bloods have dropped from 35.6 to 27. Vets really surprised too, his platelet count is also now rising. Unfortunately results got sent though at 7 so vets are having to wait till tomorrow to contact Edinburgh. Thought we were going to get good news as his whole demeanour has been totally different this week (for the better)
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Was this after a change to Azathioprine?
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yea it was he's been on Azathioprine a week.
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But not steroids? You know I have no knowledge other than what I went through with Chloe but both worked for her and worked well. Maybe they will consider it?
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4 steroids, twice a day and Azathioprine once a day, with 2 lots of gut preservers thrown into the mix.
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Right. Maybe the levels just need tweaking? It is a trial and error game with the tablets. I seem to recall Chloe's Azathioprine starter dose was 50mg. It's frustrating I know.
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thats what were hoping but he doesn't want to play about without speaking to the specialist. I assume we will be up at the vets tomorrow evening.
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Really hope you get good news tomorrow.
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When you have the two tablets it's like trying to tune in two dials on a radio! Hopefully Edinburgh will sort it for you. Good luck xx
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I hope that his medications can be tweaked to improve things and that this is just a bit of a setback :bigarmhug:
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I hope that his medications can be tweaked to improve things and that this is just a bit of a setback :bigarmhug:
Me too :bigarmhug:
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I hope that his medications can be tweaked to improve things and that this is just a bit of a setback :bigarmhug:
Me too :bigarmhug:
Same here., you have all been through so much. Keeping fingers and paws crossed for Jethro
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Hope you get better news today...... :bigarmhug: for you guys and Jethro.
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So sorry to read your up-and-down news. Keep going, little Jethro. :luv:
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Hoping you have better news today for Jethro xx
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Yes we hope so too!
:bigarmhug:
steffnelliexxx
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Sorry you are still having ups and downs. I hope you got some help from the vet. :bigarmhug:
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:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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the verdict is to stick as we are as it can take some dogs 3/4 weeks to reach the max potential with the Azathioprine. Back in next week for another lot of external bloods and to take him back in if he seems ill. He's so much more perkier at the minute, if we were just going off his demeanour we would say he was feeling a lot better.
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Thats so good to hear - fingers crossed that it will all start to level out soon :bigarmhug:
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Excellent news!
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Pleased to read your better news
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Thank dog for that keep up the good work guys :clapping: :bigarmhug: :clapping: :bigarmhug: x x x
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I was worried about the latest reply, I'm pleased it's good :luv:
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That sounds positive. Hang on in there Jethro we are all rooting for you. Sending big hugs
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Oh good, just hang on in there. :bigarmhug:
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:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
come on Jetho
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The Latest in the long line of roller coaster updates.
:cool4: :banana: WERE AT 44%!!!! :banana: :cool4:
The vet rang both of individually as he was so excited too. We have gone from the lowest to the highest in a week! His white cell counts still raised but his platelets are back to normal too. Never had his red cell count within normal since this all started back in January.
The lad like to keep us on our toes. Back in 2 weeks now and reducing the steroids again.
Jethro is also so pleased he's falling over backwards.
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s378/ChocolateHero1/IMG_9699_zps6610598a.jpg) (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/ChocolateHero1/media/IMG_9699_zps6610598a.jpg.html)
this is what happens when you get frustrated with a tree root and it breaks on you
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:cool4: :clapdance: :happydance: :banana: Well done Jethro!!!!!!!!!!
I love that the vet is invested enough in Jethro to take such a personal interest, so pleased for you all. :luv:
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That is the best news I've heard all day - delighted for you!
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That is super news, so glad for you and Jethro :banana: :banana:
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Great news :cool4: :banana: :cool4:
Really pleased for all of you :D
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Fantastic news! :banana: :banana:
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Wonderful news for your all!!
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Brilliant news :banana: :banana: pleased Jethro is improving :luv:
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Woo hoo! :banana: :banana: :banana:
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Good Job JETHRO :luv:
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Well done Jethro :luv: mummy's little hero :luv: x x x
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That is just brilliant news :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: Well done Jethro
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Way to go Jethro. Keep improving little man xxxx
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I'm so happy for you and Jethro :luv:
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Fantastic news.
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Absolutely the best news :luv:
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Excellent news!
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Oh I'm so pleased for you :luv:
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:cool4: :cool4: :cool4: You're a star Jethro! Delighted to read your latest post. :luv: :luv: :luv: Diana
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Fantastic news :luv: :luv: :luv:
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Great news. ☺️
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:cool4: whoo hoo
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Such good news! Somehow Jethro has been showing signs of improvement despite the clinical evidence, so the boy knew best ;)
:luv:
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yipee!
go Jethro :luv:
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Brilliant news....Thrilled for you all :D
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Fab news :clapping: :clapping: :banana: :banana: :luv: :luv: i am so pleased for Jethro and all of you
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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Wonderful news - so please for you. Way to go Jethro!!
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Fabulous 😀😀
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Wonderful news - WELL DONE Jethro, keep up the good work.
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Fantastic news :clapdance: :happydance:
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Super news. So pleased for you all. :D
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Great news :cool4: :cool4: :dance04: :happydance: :clapdance:
keep at it big boy
so please for you all :D
Val