Hamish

[Annette]

How's Hamish today, Shona?

Do hope you can get to the bottom of this soon, so that the treatment can be started and you can get on with life again.


Hugs

[shonajoy]

Really sorry to read this - is he still on preds - what dose ?  or have you weaned him off the drugs now ?
When the second set of bloods were taken was he on preds - or had he had the steroid injection - I think he had, so maybe thats why nothing showed up on those results ? (because the immune system was temporarily suppressed) or am I getting confused.
The first blood results you posted said his platelets and pcv were very low didn't they ?

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The first set of results that were normal, was before his steroid injection, so should have nee accurate. They took more yesterday, and there are apparantly enough platelets in it. A serum sampkle has been sent to the lab but of course the guy who is reviewing it all is off on holiday now for three weeks.

He's stable on pred daily just now, and his conition is responding well to it, so we just stay like this for now until more testing is done. They also did a bleeding test and that was normal!

[shonajoy]

Oh Ham, just when it looked like you were a veterinary science oddity, I hope he is OK and the tests eventually give you some answers, hugs from me

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He still is - one of the vets looked at his slides yesterday, and saw a clover leaf shaped platelet. Apparently thats rare.
He's fine in himself though.

[DIANNE32]

Hope Hamish is feeling much better today.

[Penel]

I am still confused - when the bleeding started again this week - was he on pred, or not ?
If he was off the pred, or you had weaned him down, that - to me - would explain why he started re-bleeding because you had not suppressed the immune system for long enough.  It takes a while to get it under control and keep it that way... if it is an auto immune disease that is...
I wish things would settle down for you both.

[shonajoy]

Sounding more like an auto immune issue Shona.  Only piece of advice I can give is don't get hung up on the drugs.  Hamish will need what he needs, whether it be steroids or steroids and another immunosuppressant (as in Chloes case) and if he cannot be weaned off them then the next best thing is to get down to as low a maintenance dose as possible.  Obviously I would choose not to pump Chloe full of drugs if I had a choice but these same drugs have kept her alive for over six years.  Getting a negative result on the Coombs test is common, Chloes was as I remember.  Mind you, she has always been a non conformist type of dog!  Fingers and toes crossed for you both doll. 

Sheryl, Holly and Chloe (who could do with her own steroid mine!)

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Absolutely, so lobng as he's here I don't mind, and am just glad we caught it

thanks hon

Shona xx

[shonajoy]

I am still confused - when the bleeding started again this week - was he on pred, or not ?
If he was off the pred, or you had weaned him down, that - to me - would explain why he started re-bleeding because you had not suppressed the immune system for long enough.  It takes a while to get it under control and keep it that way... if it is an auto immune disease that is...
I wish things would settle down for you both.

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[/quotYes, he was, but a lower dose. The vet wanted to see what effect that would have, but he'd also had voren a week previously.

It's so confusing, the vet brought in a text for me and Im trying to read up on it. The thing Im oconcerned about it she said she reckoned vaccinations would still be an option, when what I've read says a definite no no.

 ::

The good thing is that three of the vets are keeping up on it, and two of those are the senior ones who have recently attended the conference about it specifically, they are all really interested so its good to have three opinions.

[shonajoy]

Hope Hamish is feeling much better today.

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He's great, Dianne. You honestly wouldn't know he's ill. Mad as a brush.

He's been sleeping a bit later too, which is fab, but during the day he's the same wee guy as always. Love him to bits.

thanks

[LindaW]

Sorry to hear that Hamish has had a setback but sounds like he is responding now to the steroids.  Hope he continues to do well bless him!

[Penel]

Any dog with an auto immune disease - vaccinations are a big nono.  You don't want to stimulate the immune system which is what vaccinations do.  Also if a dog is on steroids, vaccinations do not "take" anyway. I can find info on this for you if you'd like.

From what you have said, the reduction of the pred dose had enabled the disease to take hold again, this is common - often vets advise reduction too fast.  The steroid injection would only last up to 72 hrs, no longer - unless its something new that I'm not aware of.

He needs to be on a proper immunosuppressive dose Shona - which is 2 - 4 mg per kg per 24 hrs split into two doses, with a gastroprotectant to protect his tummy as steroids are very hard on the insides.  If he is not on this dose, he will keep relapsing - I have seen it happen time and time again.  If you reduce too early, he will relapse, again I've seen it time and time again..... each time they relapse its harder to get the immune system under control again, and you end up taking the pred dose higher and higher.  Thing is there is a limit - and then you have to add in other immunosuppressive drugs like Azathioprine - which can have other implications long term.

I really hope the vets get it sorted soon,

[shonajoy]

Any dog with an auto immune disease - vaccinations are a big nono.  You don't want to stimulate the immune system which is what vaccinations do.  Also if a dog is on steroids, vaccinations do not "take" anyway. I can find info on this for you if you'd like.

From what you have said, the reduction of the pred dose had enabled the disease to take hold again, this is common - often vets advise reduction too fast.  The steroid injection would only last up to 72 hrs, no longer - unless its something new that I'm not aware of.

He needs to be on a proper immunosuppressive dose Shona - which is 2 - 4 mg per kg per 24 hrs split into two doses, with a gastroprotectant to protect his tummy as steroids are very hard on the insides.  If he is not on this dose, he will keep relapsing - I have seen it happen time and time again.  If you reduce too early, he will relapse, again I've seen it time and time again..... each time they relapse its harder to get the immune system under control again, and you end up taking the pred dose higher and higher.  Thing is there is a limit - and then you have to add in other immunosuppressive drugs like Azathioprine - which can have other implications long term.

I really hope the vets get it sorted soon,

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I'd love some infor on the vax thing, if you have a link and its not too much trouble. He's on 10mgs a day which sounds about right then, he's only 9.5kgs. I'll ask about a gastroprotectant too, we are seeing the vet tomorrow. thanks, thats all very useful.

[sweetie]

aww sweety,give hamish a big fat snog off me,he,s been such a brave boy,
and pour yourself a large one hun,,you certainly deserve it..
lots of love to ya hunny pie   xxxxxxx

[shonajoy]

aww sweety,give hamish a big fat snog off me,he,s been such a brave boy,
and pour yourself a large one hun,,you certainly deserve it..
lots of love to ya hunny pie   xxxxxxx

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lol zIGS, WILL DO, XXX

[kookie]

Aww poor Hamish. He's really tugging the heart strings that little man.
Hope he gets better, 'properly better' soon.

[Penel]

He's on 10mgs a day which sounds about right then, he's only 9.5kgs. I'll ask about a gastroprotectant too, we are seeing the vet tomorrow. thanks, thats all very useful.

Shona, 10mgs a day is not an immunosuppressive dose, it is what is called an anti inflammatory dose.  

The minimum dose to suppress the immune system for a dog of 9.5kgs would be 19mgs a day, split into two doses....

he is on half the recommended dose -

so I'd ask your vet if they think its enough - the thing is a lot of vets try and keep the dose as low as possible - but its sort of a false economy - because it won't keep the disease under control - as you have found out already....

I will find links in a bit and post them here,