any one else really concerned about working cocker health testing?

[fenn2006]

Yes your right,sorry for some reason thought it was Optigen - so again then another red herring you could say?

[Jane S]

Not really a red herring as eye testing is better than nothing at all & will also check for conditions not covered by the Optigen test so it's still worth doing.

[supaspaniel]

Just to add to the debate our friend has Fenn's half brother (same sire) and as he is entire has been lined up for a three keepers dogs around the area, one keeper whom has 6 or seven bitches wants to use Max...bless him for all six ,

Now that's how to lose genetic diversity - mate all the bitches in the area to the same dog Will this gamekeeper really be able to find good, permanent homes for the offspring of 6-7 bitches? I'm quite shocked really - it's the sort of thing you expect from commercial pet breeders who frequently mate all their bitches to one dog but somehow I didn't expect it so much from Working Cocker breeders

My thoughts too Jane - especially as he's not even a proven dog and it's just because he looks 'nice'. 

I find it extraordinary and another example of poor breeding ethics 

Not at all surprised..it is whats going on. 

[Coco]

The lady at Breezybrook didn't volunteer the info, it wan't untill \i asked and she still did say the same old ' Working cockers aren't affected' but then I suppose since she has more than one stud she wouldn't want to make too big of a deal out of it.
I still appreciate that whoever had him tested did so, hopefully she had her bitch fully tested. I wonder if she requested the other tests too but they didn't want him knocked out etc

What is the cost of full testing, all the tests one would need to confidently breed?

[Tasha]

hip scoring can vary dependant upon who you go to and where you live (mine was under £100 though and she was absolutely fantastic) tops I heard have been £400.

Optigen you can get discounts on if you go to the clinics and do more than one dog at a time but that was quite a bit over £100.  The FN testing at antagene is 95 euros (approx £72) plus the costs of the vets to take the bloods or swabs and postage.

General eye tests you can have done again at one of the clinics which reduces the costs again but the gonioscopy costs more and is the basic requirement.

I'd set aside at least £500 to cover all the tests you probably won't spend that much if you shop around a little bit but its worth having the tiny margin.

[Cazzie]

I think any dog should be health tested that is going to be bred and gone over with a fine tooth comb before its ever considered to be 

I certainly know that all my labs parents have been tested in all aspects and think that spaniels should be also. 

I do not know why cockers arent done as I know its certainly not from the lack of cash in having them done 

Whats the way forward in this  Or is it a case of wait till something goes wrong and then worry about it 

I dont think sweepies parents were done but not 100% sure  But I know that in my situation in getting her it wasnt an issue, but if I had been actively looking for a cocker pup now, I wouldnt touch one with a barge pole who's parents were not tested. 

Health testing although ext important, but is not just the bee all and end all, for example, Otter who comes from tested parents, is an abs worry for me, as he is a big boned dog, vey active and likes to jump up, run around. I have to be so careful with him not to put a strain on his joints in his daily activities, as I could be a factor in injuring him, I have now resulted in wrapping him in cotton wool so as to protect him from knocks, running and jumping as I do not wish to end up with him damaging himself. I think health testing along with careful exercise, a good diet is good, but how to convince those less concerned I really just dont know 

[Coco]

I had been actively looking for a cocker pup now, I wouldnt touch one with a barge pole who's parents were not tested. 

You'ld have a seriously long wait/search as I am finding!! But this raises the point that if one found a working cocker that was tested but without proven lines etc, just the sire and dam available to see, over an untested pup from a long list of proven workers but fairly unknown health then what would one do?

[Cazzie]

I had been actively looking for a cocker pup now, I wouldnt touch one with a barge pole who's parents were not tested. 

You'ld have a seriously long wait/search as I am finding!! But this raises the point that if one found a working cocker that was tested but without proven lines etc, just the sire and dam available to see, over an untested pup from a long list of proven workers but fairly unknown health then what would one do?

So it appears which is sad  and is why ill never have another working cocker (although that not being the only reason) till sweepie is no longer here, maybe by then folk will have given themselves a shake  But then I also fear like I said with Otter is there a 100% guarantee that the dog you get from tested parents wont have or get a health problem  So difficult and a worry 

[Tasha]

well the option still is a supply and demand issue isn't it???

If more people ask about testing and request a pup from tested parents then we might have better luck at the main breeders supplying the demand.  There are some breeders that are doing the tests and ok they might not be the biggies but its got to be a start hasn't it.

I know when I had Ayla done there was a lot of umming and ahhing from the breeders behind her line BUT the two I approached were fantastic and prehaps having the knowledge that ones clear within their lines will encourage more interest.  Alot of the owners of good stud dogs have a list of bitch owners who have used there dogs expecting puppies so if you make a request asking specifically for the recommendation of a tested bitch and are prepared to wait the time it takes to get one then it might encourage them a little more.  Offering to pay for the test knowing that it doesn't need to be published might also be an incentive.

You could also look at the dogs off spring that have been tested to give an indication.  If one of them has a clear result and not a carrier result then you know the parents must also have been either clear or one a carrier etc bit of a guess but a more educated one prehaps.

I would really have like to have been able to test my dogs parents but that opportunity will never arise now as both dogs have either been rehomed or have an uncertain future.

[Coco]

Offering to pay for the test knowing that it doesn't need to be published might also be an incentive.

You could also look at the dogs off spring that have been tested to give an indication.  If one of them has a clear result and not a carrier result then you know the parents must also have been either clear or one a carrier etc bit of a guess but a more educated one prehaps.

But if there is no published list then where would one get information on tested offspring? While looking for Wherry and now in the last about 5 months looking again I must have contacted well over 30 breeders and the closest I have found to testing is that one breezybrook with the current clear eye certificate? 

It's litterally a mine field.

ETA: Ary there any statistics Tasha on how Workers are affected by the types of diseses that can be tested for, or any there any cases on here or elsewhere that I could see? I mean, how likely is it that a W.Cocker will develop these problems?
(I hope that doesn't come across written down as sarcy or confrontational, i mean it genuinely  )

[workingcockers]

Coco - If you look hard enough, you will find breeders that both Optigen test AND hip score their breeding stock.
but as Tasha says it is supply and demand, if more people demanded AND didnt buy from breeders with untested stock, then the message might get through.
With regard to Optigen, I think it is safe to say that as long as one parent is clear, then the pups will never be affected with that form of pra, but there is of course CPRA which there is no dna test for yet. Nothing is guaranteed with hips, so much depends on how you raise the pup, feeding etc as well as its genetic predisposition to it. But on the other hand, if a breeder has bothered to hip score their dogs, it is likely that they are very aware of alll the ifs and buts and will take great care both in riasing their pups and in supplying information and aftercare to ensure the owners know they have an important part to play in minimising any joint damage while pup is still growing.
I have already put the OPtigen stats that I know of earlier on the post. I dont think its fair to list the dogs by name as with Optigen not being a KC scheme, the info is only in the public domain if the owners so chose. I dont and wont seek permission to list them.
with the KC schemes = the eyes and hips, the info is published every quarter in the breeds records supplement. If you wish a list of all dogs that have been through the eye and hip scheme, you can request through the KC information services, a CD with all info to date for a fee. You hve to sgn a disclaimer that you will not reproduce this information witout permission or use for commercial gain.
HTH

K

[Coco]

Coco - If you look hard enough, you will find breeders that both Optigen test AND hip score their breeding stock.
but as Tasha says it is supply and demand, if more people demanded AND didnt buy from breeders with untested stock, then the message might get through.
 
If you wish a list of all dogs that have been through the eye and hip scheme, you can request through the KC information services, a CD with all info to date for a fee.

Could I ask you a big favour to PM me any that you know of, particularly any a little more southern. The only one I've come across so far is you!  I have only spoken to people that I have found through recommendation, well known 'reputable' breeders or via the internet based on kennels that I have knowledge of through trail literature.

Also, re: the KC list, how much would one expect to pay for this?

[Tasha]

I paid £14 for my weim info but there is alot more to cockers so i'd expect it to be a bit more than than its worth it though and if you do buy the disc I'd be happy to buy it from you at a later date as I'll be looking to purchase it at some point for my database.

Personally I'd join NOBs and make a request on there they are a nice bunch and several of the members have gone down the optigen testing path with their dogs.  You could also look at the lab breeders who've got optigen tested stock that also do cockers and see if they would be prepared to help you.