Keli's Reverse Sneezing Diary- Mast Cell Nasal Tumor FINAL UPDATE 29/01/10.

[Mel]

This is quite a long story but I need to relay it to give you all the info.

About 2 and a half years ago my boy, currently a 12 and a half year old blue roan, had to have his little bits removed as he had a prostate issue and started passing blood.

All went well, except about 5 days or so after the op he started reverse sneezing. Of course I thought it was very serious and after a day or so and a trip to the vets, it passed. He has in that time had maybe a handful of time when he reverse sneezed once or twice. I never worried about it.

about 6-8 weeks ago - I can't quite remember now, he started again and after it was carrying on for about 7 days, I realised this wasn't right. You know sometimes it's only after such a time you realise how long it's been going on. It was mainly at night.

At around the same time he had gunky eyes which normally requires a tear duct flush. However, I tried some Maxitrol and this seemed to clear it a bit but after 7 days again it hadn't cleared properly. I decided it was now vets time. The morning of the vets he also had a slightly yellowy discharge from the left nostril.

Unfortunately, we didn't see our usual vet, but the lady put him on Synulox for 7 days, Maxitrol ointment and claimed he had the most terrible heart murmur and put him on heart tablets.

I need to point out he had also been suffering from increasingly noxious breath and although I had been cleaning his teeth regularly, he really needed a dental. However at 12 and a half I felt concerned about him having to be put out for just a dental. I lost my last cocker at 12 and a half. He had a dental at 12 and was never the same dog after - all his character went.

OK so the noxious breath went and the eyes cleared a bit but the reverse sneezing still there.

To cut a long story short we tried antihistamines and still the reverse sneezing persisted. The only way was an endoscopy to ascertain what was wrong.

The endoscopy showed nothing - no growths no foreign bodies and the swabs just showed a large area of mast cells which the pathologist suggested due to a lack of growth, was chronic inflammation and suggested Rimadyl to reduce the inflammation.

The only other thing found was my boy went blue on the op table because he has a slightly collapsing larynx.

The vet assumed the reverse sneezing was due to the collapsing larynx and gave my man months or weeks. I was in pieces. However, I now know dogs can live with both collapsed larynx and trachea with careful management, so I decided to go the positive route. The Rimadyl worked at reducing the inflammation of the larynx so much so that the vet has said the is a "positively marked recovery" though complete recovery may not be attained.

However, still reverse sneezing with now added clear sticky mucoid discharge from one nostril. He has times when his breathing great and he sleeps soundly, but mainly at night he gets what sounds like a very snotty nose, bubbling and reverse sneezing. You can see him swallowing the stuff down. It's not infected - he is currently on Baytril plus I am giving him Dorwest's Garlic and Fenugreek tablets. I have also ordered some Pulsitilla and Silica homeopathic drops from Denes as these apparently clear up excessive catarrh. Everything points to rhinitis or possibly a missed foreign body - but I am very worried, lacking in sleep and really not wanting to start him on the slippery slope of continuous steroids for the rest of his life - the vet has given me some prenisolone but  I am loathed.

Any help of advice would be appreciated and I'm sorry if there is spelling mistakes but I am typing this blind as the message box keeps flicking back up to the top so I can't read what I have written.

Sorry just to add he is no longer on the heart tablets as he doesn't have a terrible heart murmur - only a very very mild one.

[elaine.e]

No advice about his condition, but maybe you should get a second opinion from another vet in case the first one has missed something. It sounds like you're old boy might be quite uncomfortable when he's having a bad night.

My first Cocker lived until almost 17 and was on medication for a heart murmur and heart failure for about 5 years with no side effects or problems, but I appreciate that steroids are different.

Good luck with finding a better solution for him 

[elaine.e]

Re. your problem with the message box - do you have Internet Explorer 8? I had the same problem when I upgraded to it and solved it by pressing the compatibility tab while on COL. It will be to the right of the toolbar at the very top of your screen (so next to the box with the COl web address in it) and looks like a sheet of paper with the top left corner folded down and a green zig zag going across it.

Hope that helps.

[*Jay*]

Sorry to hear your boys health issues. Vegas had the reverse sneezing and green nasal discharge a few years ago but his ended up being caused by a secondary infection to kennel cough and was cleared up by the baytril. This went on for about 4-5 weeks.  I'd be inclined to seek a second opinion too and hopefully get to the bottom of it 

[Mel]

Thank you all for your replies. And thank you with regard the IE issue - just pressed compatability view to see if it works!

Went back to the vets today. My boy still has an ear infection on the right side and he has a dry right eye too - so we got stuff for that. I have spoken with other vets and although a couple suggested taking the low dose steroids, I have been advised to take the Pulsitilla and Silica homeopathic stuff - just as a final resort before steroids. These arrived today so I will try him on that first.

The vet said if I try the low dose steroids he has agreed for one week full on, second week one every other day and final week one every three to four days. If the reverse sneezing comes back, we will perform an allergy blood test. If it does not we will just take it from there. The vet says overall he is a very healthy dog for his age, but he has always suffered eye and ear troubles. He has cataracts coming too so he is in the wars, though the last I heard his mother was 14 and a half and blind.

He is already deaf-doo! But a very cheerful soul, possibly happy not to hear my voice 

I'll give the homeopathy a go, but if it fails I will give him the steroids. He is getting quite a good deal of quality sleep so it's only really me who is suffering on that score. However, the reverse sneezing has inflamed his larynx again - obvious really as he is snorting through the nose and throat. He is such a worry. I love him dearly and just want his old age to be more peaceful than his earlier life.

Some good news is the lungs are clear and the heart although a slight murmur "is of no real concern" and not heart disease.

Bless him, he's fast asleep here, breathing as quiet as a mouse and giving those cute little paw twitches every so often!

BTW - you suggestion re the browser seems to have worked  Thank you!

[Sheryl]

It doesn't sound like the steroid dose your vet is thinking of trying is particularly high.  I know people shy away from steroids but I have said it before and I will say it again........sometimes they have their place in the scheme of things.  I know some people hate them but they kept my dog alive for 7 years, without I may add, any of the side effects they can give.  You are not talking long term, only a short sharp blast of them.  I think if whatever you are trying now doesn't work then you should give them a whirl.  I was in the same position myself not long ago, taking everything for allergic rhinitis.  1 week of steroids and I was as right as rain.  It must be awful watching and not knowing what to do for the best.  Hugs to you and you wee man xxx

[Mel]

Thank you for your kind reply.

Yes I have sort of come to the conclusion I may well have to go the preds route.

They are just a 5mg dose once a day so it could be worse.

He has had a Rimadyl earlier this evening and he has been less gunky sounding. The eye ointment the vet made by hand today - yes he sat and worked it all out as it is in an oil suspension - is working already. Maybe I should just trust him a little more. He is not the vet we have had for 5yrs - he left just after the op.

I have always felt my man would live a long time, by that I mean over 14yrs - and I don't want to create further illnesses if the natural route works.

I'll be honest with you I am exhausted by this. I care for my mother who has serious dementia, 24/7, and because he wakes me with the reverse sneezing, I am getting very worn down. I am also very worn down at the fact we can't "fix" him, like I always used to tell him. Poor swine can't hear me, I feel so sorry for the poor sod. It's really nice to be able to share this with others who understand - thank you.

[Helen]

you sound exhausted

I hope the pred helps your boy.  I think you're making the right decision to try it,  and your new/old vet sounds great    If it makes your boy comfortable and happy and helps break the cycle of sneezing then it's worth it   

keep us posted and good luck 

[Holly Berry]

Sometimes I think that Vet diagnosis is hit and miss and that they prescribe meds in the hope that they have a solution if not try something else.

Poppy who is 13 has really bad breath, the vet is loathed because of her age to put her under GA so has prescribed anitbiotics for 7 days every 4 weeks and it works. They are antirobe. I don't know if thats feasible with all the other meds he is on.

Hope you find some answers soon.

[Mel]

Well today I am starting the prednisolone - 5mg once a day with half a Baytril once a day.

However, just a few minutes ago I found a small pool of fresh blood on the floor. No splattering and I freaked. Picked up said cocker and started to examine him for signs of where the blood has come from. Cannot see anything from any orifice and none of his warts have bled. Blood doesn't just drop in one place and then stop - he's very lively this morning and so any blood dripping would have trailed both on the fur and the floor. Blood dripping from the nose would have splattered and when he was passing blood due to a prostate issue some years ago it trailed everywhere.

I have not given the preds yet but will go get him some probiotic yogurt to line his stomach which is still quite loose since having the Baytril.

I have a deep gloom that he has nasal, chest or stomach cancer.

Blood cannot come from nowhere and I'm not bleeding and mum can't walk.

I'll keep you updated.

[Sheryl]

I must say I am not a lover of Baytril, they didn't agree with Chloe but that was her.......  I think the yoghurt is a good idea.  Some vets do prescribe something like Lansoprazole with steroids and some don't.  This couldn't be some kind of auto immune disease could it?

[Mel]

I have no idea to be honest.

I am at my wits end. I am almost in tears. I cannot find out where the blood came from - there was quite a lot really. I did see a very tiny spattering of blood in his right nostral on Saturday, but it actually looked like he had a small cut on the inside of his nose. This seems to have healed over now.

I stand corrected, the cut is still open though not healed over. There is redness in the cut as it were, but that doesn't explain that amount of blood.

I do remember this morning he was rubbing his nose on the lounge carpet and rolling on his back - what I use to affectionately call his "mad moment" - but I know realise they do this with irritations of the ears and nose and is not a "cute" thing.

I don't know. I think the vets are fed up with me not giving him the preds last week and there is still a small amount outstanding on the bill after the insurance pay out and they are already asking for this - even though I have paid for other treatment since!

OK I'm off to get the yogurt and start the preds. If it is nasal cancer, he may expect up to 18 months depending on the severity, or it could be as little as 6 months.

After he has gone I will get another - not because he is a comodity but because I know I missed my Niki too much when I lost him.

I used to smoke - gave up in 2005 - so will ultimately blame myself.

He slept with me last night for quite a time. We had lovely cuddles. He is never like that. I will go now - I'm in tears with my stupid mother shouting out - I so resent caring for her at times like this because the nature of her disease makes he so selfish. And she used to feed him bloody Caeser tinned food constantly and only with my harsher regime has he not become a barrel.

Sorry.

[JennyBee]

So sorry for all your troubles you are having . I have no advice on any of your cocker's other problems but my last cocker once cut his nose a little and there was a lot of blood for such a small cut - I hope this is the case with your boy. Sending plenty of positive thoughts your way

[brownsugar]

Sorry you're having such a rough time of it, sometimes it can just become a bit much all at the same time, isn't?
Just wanted to tell you prednisolone can be a blessing. We got our previous cocker as a rescue. She had lots of health issues (skin, eyes, ears, diarrhea, variable lameness). We were very much against the steroids and went the homeopathic way al long time (having had good experiences with a previous dog) with a registred hom.vet.
In the long run it got so bad we felt we couldn't go on and we went by the prednisolone prescribed by the vet (on suspicion of auto immune disease).
It worked very well. Her itch and diarrhea diminished, as did her very bad lameness. She seemed years younger and much happier and we were able to have some lovely walks and throw her ball again.
It did affect her appetite (more hungry) and we were more wary of infections (as symptoms were masked by the prednisolone).
BTW, it's best to give the pred. to dogs in the morning (cats in the evening) and every other day (or less). That way the body keeps making its own steroids too and you can give less pred. Having said this, our dog did need to get a low dose every day.

[Sheryl]

Have pm'd you xx