Keli's Reverse Sneezing Diary- Mast Cell Nasal Tumor FINAL UPDATE 29/01/10.

[Wendy G]

Hi Sorry that you are having such an awful time. I have had a dog with nasal
cancer, and he used to sneeze and spray blood  (so no blood in pools)
We kept him going for about 18 months on different tablets

I have also had a dog with Addisons that was on prednisolone for about 5 years, we had her PTS in august and she was 12.

Hope that you can find out what is wrong soon and start to get it sorted

[Mel]

Thank you all so very much. It's so nice to talk to people and although I know I must be rambling on, people offering sound advice and a caring, patient attitude. Sheryl thank you for your lovely PM, I'll reply later or tomorrow as I have to get mum sorted this evening - non bloomin' stop!

He is on 5mg preds once a day for 7 days then once every other day for 7 days, then I don't know what. I guess we shall have to evaluate the situation then.

Unfortunately due to shopping, mum's doctor, (she has a urine infection and is currently speaking to a non-existant cat), and the pharmacy getting mum's script lost, (waited nearly 2hrs for them to still not find it but produce some meds for her), poor ole boy only had the preds at 5.30pm. Not ideal I know. I shall do it in the morning in future for him.

Within 20 minutes he was a right figit digit but has calmed down a bit and is now asleep in his posh bed behind me as I type. He has reverse sneezed a few times since the preds and breathing is ok but a bit squeaky. I don't know how long they take to kick in, especially on a low dose.

I find he suffers with breathing troubles more from about 6pm anyway, and for some weeks now I have been awoken everynight at least once with him reverse sneezing or snorting or trying to mouth breath. Last night he was a tad more settled as I have totally blitzed the flat, triple hoovering everywhere. So, I still have a tiny bit of hope he may have allergies.

I suppose I had better introduce you all to him.

His name is Kelynen Mr Bojangles - Kelynen was the name of the cottage in Cornwall where the lady who bred him lived. He was also born on St Patrick's Day 1997, so Kelynen or Keli for short. This is a misnoma as Kelynen is Cornish for Holly - his mother's name, so he has a girls name and most people think he's a girl because of the name Keli. My aunt had, years ago a male golden cocker called Kelly - he used to guard my pram as a baby and not let my mum near it!

His mother as far as I know still is a black and white particolour and blue roan mix and his father a pure blue roan. He has mostly blue roan in his line with one or two black and white particolours and one or two goldens way back - though he does show some golden in the sunlight, if you look carefully. He has more white on than my other cocker, Niki who was almost pure black with light roan white flecking.

Without being snobbish as I am not, but he has a good line with a number of champions in. He was the first born of the litter and was the only one to inherit one droopy lower eyelid and one tight lid - one from each of his parents. The second born died at birth and thus he remained rather disconnected from the rest of his siblings and to watch him, (yes I have video of minutes after he was born til when I picked him up at 15 weeks), he looks like the runt of the litter as he was always busy doing something and being left behind by the others.

He is very intelligent and I taught him both verbal and visual commands, so damn useful now he is deaf. He loved toys til about 2yrs then it was a case of "Ok, so it does that, lovely, next!" 

He has, as my other dog did have, more names than hot dinners, including The Specialist, Linny, Kelsin, Linnington, Linnius, Stink Winkerton, (I know don't ask I come up with the most stupid names), Woosifer and Kelly-belles. He has also been known to answer to "Dog-dog" too.

He has been plaugued by eye and ear infections all his life. He has had 2 ops for grass seeds, one for one small tooth, one for removal of said testicular region and this last one for exploritory, and 2 teeth removed. He has terrible lips fold eczema and I am furious the vet when he was younger didn't sort it out and told me it wouldn't be an issue, "it's just cosmetic" - yeah, ok! He also is getting cataracts.

I could relay so many stories but I'm sure you all have very similar ones to tell because they are cockers and that's why we love them, they do the cutest things.

So here he is, Kelynen Mr Bojangles

[Mel]

Oh sorry just to add, to the kind person who mentioned full x-rays/scans: I would but for the fact that my vets have just had near on £1000 for the current treatment and I have used up my allocated £1000 per ailment per year. I know some people argue if you can't afford a dog, get rid of them, but I have struggled to keep his insurance going and pay for small stuff instead of claiming, whilst being a carer. He has never suffered, but I just don't have funds for more x-rays or scans.

He had tons of lumps some quite big which have been there at least 2 years, some even more. I know that doesn't mean they are never cancerous, but I'm sure we will know rather soon if any of these dramatically shirink with the preds or he shows other ill signs.

He's still fast asleep!

[Sheryl]

Oh bless his beautiful face Mel   He is gorgeous!

[Mel]

Thank you. 

We all have one photo which sums our babies up to a tee and this is Keli's one entitled, "Mr Hairy-Head". 

Oh I forgot to say he also has a full tail - I searched high and low for an undocked cocker as my first one was undocked and he was born in 1984 - so he was very unusual.

We seem a tad quieter on the reverse sneezing front so far - fingers crossed!

[Mel]

I'm gonna turn this into a diary if that is ok?

Sometime down the line someone might be experiencing similar problems with their cocker and it may be of some help to them.

Day 1 - I know he had some reverse sneezing last night before bed. He drank for England but also had an accident on the stairs of the communial hallway. Not happy about that as the neighbours will go ape as it's not concrete but carpeted. Cleaned it up took him down to go to t'other and he wee'd AGAIN! Blimey!

I think sleep time was quiet. I wasn't awaoken as I have been, but as it is some 10 weeks now, I may be sleeping through the noise if it's not too bad.

He started with having a bit of a cuddle with me but after 5 minutes kicked out and "escaped" to the safety of the floor and ultimately his bed. This is VERY encouraging as he will never spend more than 5 minutes with me. He is much like a cat - comes to you for affection and on his terms so when the night before he slept for about 40 minutes in my bed being cuddled, it was nice but un-nerving.

This morning he was up bright and sparky. We had reverse sneezing again which seemed to increase when I put the heater on. He is really sneezing hard and may hurt his larynx and trachea even more.

I put down one of mums bed mats on the kitchen floor incase of accidents - nothing.

Gave him a couple of chews with the Preds quite a bit of reverse sneezing to begin with. He's been out for a wee but he's not drinking as much this morning, infact quite normal drinking - i.e. just one small drink about 8.30am. He was racing about like a mad man when the treats were out, but he's been sleeping now for nearly 2hrs. He had some reverse sneezing about 45 minutes ago but he's as quiet as a mouse now. Oh ok just had a squeak.

Don't know how long Preds take to work - apparently 20mg (very low), dose on humans takes around 3-4 days to kick in. Initial gut feeling is nothing will change. Only this diary will determine if I am right or wrong.


Just found some of my old threads - here's Keli:

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=18349.msg224367#msg224367


And how did I forget this?:

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=27834.msg369758#msg369758

[Countrygirl]

What a lovely boy he is.  Really hope the medication helps him and it is nothing more serious.

[Penelope]

Really hoping the medication works and all is well for your gorgeous boy.
A diary is a great idea - it will help you too cos it will put your thoughts in order.
Healing hugs from us here in Kent.   

[Mel]

Well Day 2 has been not so great.

He was very lethargic most of today, in fact at one point he look positively stoned out of his head. He wasn't interested in much. I telephoned the vet, worried at his quite obvious change. I got one of the trainee nurses who had to go and ask the senior nurse when the Preds are likely to work. I was told another 3-4 days and I should see a positive reaction. The trainee had said she would fetch the Senior to the phone, but was told she was now at lunch. I said it would have been useful to have spoken to a trained nurse or vet as I had a few questions to ask. She was very blase, and gave me a politically correct cover-all answer of, "I would just carry on as you are."

I told her that with due respect, it was obvious she was not a senior nurse or a vet and I was giving him steriods which can be dangerous if not administered correctly and if they produce certain side-effects. I was stunned by her reply of "Are you going to insult me any further?"

I told her I wasn't trying to insult her but if she were either a fully trainer nurse, senior or vet, she would have already told me, been able to deal with my initial question and would no doubt been able to give me further information. Her reply was "that's your opinion". I told her I was stunned at her attitude and that almost £1000 had recently been paid to try to find a solution to my boy's ailments and I am not impressed with her attitude nor customer service manner. I then vented a little that my boy's been on so much medication and no-one seems to have a clue what is happening and I'm very unimpressed with the whole thing, especially considering I am trying to be a sensible and pro-active owner and be accurate in everything I am doing - which in every circumstance would involve reporting a change in behaviour when new meds are started.

She then said, "And so, have you anything further you want to add to that?", at which point I asked her who the bloody hell did she think she was talking to, I was a paying customer and I would report her to her companies' head office, which I did.

I later, whilst out shopping, got a message left by the senior nurse wanting to speak with me because she was unhappy with the way I had spoken to her nurse and she needed to speak to me about this. Oh and she was right, she checked with the vet who confirmed the Preds need another 3-4 days to kick in and for the antibiotics to kick in too. The tone was rather that I was a naughty little girl. She asked me to ring tomorrow.

Now I may be being neurotic or maybe just rather over emotional about this, but surely that is the job of the nurses, trained or not, to calm and reassure clients who may be quite well aware that their beloved pets may be dying or at least very sick. How on earth would this girl deal with someone who when mental because their animal had died in theatre? It does happen.

I have been with that practice since it was owned by a local vet it that village, some 12yrs. It's now owned by a large company and has been for 5yrs. I am a loyal customer who travels about 30 minute journey to go there, it's not very local to me.

Very disappointed.

Keli is still reverse sneezing, though it's coming in batches, it is still quite harsh. It's more frequent too. I do hope this does kick in and actually do the job of reducing the inflammation. He's not drinking loads and certainly not gagging for food. Last nights drinking was not what occured today. He was brighter this evening and has eaten nearly all his dinner. He has a runny tummy but I guess that's to be expected.

Roll on tomorrow.

[smartietopdog]

Re. your problem with the message box - do you have Internet Explorer 8? I had the same problem when I upgraded to it and solved it by pressing the compatibility tab while on COL. It will be to the right of the toolbar at the very top of your screen (so next to the box with the COl web address in it) and looks like a sheet of paper with the top left corner folded down and a green zig zag going across it.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for that!! I have that problem!!

Mel, any option of changing vets? I can't be dealing with companies like that at the best of times, but when it is about a beloved pet, I don't think that kind of attitude is accaptable. Lets just say for arguments sake (promise ) you were out of order with the way you spoke, they should deal with it in a calm and sensitive manner, allowing for the fact you are hugley worried about a major part of your life being ill, NOT come back on the attack at you. And no I don't think you were wrong to ask to speak to a senior nurse, you wouldn't let the cleaner or receptionist at the drs diagnose you would you?

[Sheryl]

I agree, I would be changing vets pronto.  I would also be asking (the new vets) about the chance of AI disease, just to get it checked off the list of possible causes xx

[brownsugar]

Sorry if I'm a bit blunt, but a good vet should have the best interest of you and your dog in mind, and to me this doesn't sound like it at all. It's IMO very understandable that you are worried, we're not talking about a broken dishwasher or such, but about a member of your family who is possibly very ill. (Though hopefully will be allright.)

Agree with previous posters, could changing vets be an option for you?
We've moved house a lot with our animals and had a lot of vets. Some were good and caring and others we were not so happy with (and we have changed vets for that reason). You have to be able to trust your vet!

BTW, can't remember diarrhea as a side effect of prednison. Would think it a bit odd, as corticosteroids are given for some cases of chronic diarrhea?

Hope things will take a turn for the better.
(And wishing you the best with your mum too, such an awful disease.)

[Mel]

Thank you all for your replies.

With regards the upset tummy - it's getting better but I think it's the Baytril upsetting him a bit.

Day 3. Well I dealt with the senior nurse today. The trainee was accusing me of calling her a liar and of course I was accused of terrible language to the trainee. For the sake of the dog at the moemnt I put my side to the senior nurse and said I was not going to be accused of something I didn't do. To cut a long story short, she had to agree I have never even raised my voice to any member of staff there, let alone be verbally aggressive. She also had to admit I didn't even know the girl so it couldn't be personal. I implied that as the girls attitude changed after speaking to her, that maybe she felt I was a right royal pain but I am trying to be a proactive owner and if I had justed "carried on" and the dog had died, did she not think it would be a cause for litigation?

Complete change of tack by said senior nurse. "Maybe our nurse took what you said the wrong way!". No real apology but to be honest, the dog hates vets anyhow, so changing might not be for the best.

I'm not impressed but at this moment I'm thinking of the dog.

I agree with you Smartytopdog & Brownsugar - if I had been bloody rude, which I wasn't, there is still no excuse, she should diffuse a situation not make it worse.

Now, onto Keli - good news so much less reverse sneezing yesterday and none on Tuesday night either. Slept quite a bit but was a lot brighter than the previous days. Even had a playful bark which I had to stop him doing for the larynx sake.

However, I had had a surprise visit from someone mum used to work with last night. Manic clearing of chinese laundry to create a nice sitting room. Stuff dumped on my bed. Keli had a 5 minute burst of reverse sneezing - could be anything, stress, excitement, dust, etc. But after she went I was moving stuff back into the room to clear my bed and Keli started serious reverse sneezing. I was in a real panic as it went on continuously for over 30 minutes.

When I went to look where he had sat on my bed, I found in the stuff I'd brought out, 2 open packets of incense sticks.

Now, I have not burned any smelly candles for many months however, looking back in my diary - don't ask me how, but a couple of weeks before he started this, I had been burning incense quite a bit. But I have not burned any since, so it's not like I am exaserbating the problem.

It may also be a secondary allergy to something else and could be completely seperate and due to him having a nasal flush and being far more sensitive to things he had not previously been sensitive to.

He has had a little reverse sneezing this morning - it is obvious his throat is inflamed today by his breathing so it's almost like going backward to Tuesday with regards the soreness of his throat.

It's a shame in some ways as he is now on day 4 with 3 full days left on the preds and a week weaning off. However, it's interesting to find this out.

Y'know whilst he was having this bad attck, I panicked, cried, etc, then thought maybe offering a small soft treat would clear the throat. He only bloomin' ate it whilst reverse sneezing and wagging his tail, finally asking for another looking like he was gonna die!

I don't think this was larynx/trachea issue - the tongue and lips were not tinged with blue. I maybe wrong though.

We shall see, this could be allergies and how lovely that would be.

He's fast asleep behind me now with reasonable quiet breathing.

[Mel]

Sorry to add, he's just had another reverse sneezing fit, not very long but has been retching and coughing very deeply. He's now wandered off for a sleep elsewhere.

Looking it up it's either kennel cough or tracheal collapse. So, maybe these steroids are not actually doing anything because he didn't do this before.

[smartietopdog]

I'm dreading what I am going to read next...............keep hoping I'll come here, and you will say he's turned a corner, and it's all sorted.
Fingers crossed x Hugs to Keli