APC Tablets

[htc]

Hi aplogies for my first post being a question I will do an intro, I have a nearly 6 year old working cocker who is a little angel normally until its time to go to the vets and then she becomes super aggressive and becomes very distressed the last visit we had to muzzle her and pin her down for her jabs which was horrible to see.

My vet has given me 6x 25mg APC tablets and has told me to give her one before the actual day as a trial run so I can guage how much she will need on the day, I have been reading lots over the last few days and it seems this type of drug is not very nice and I am very concerned to give it to her.

Any advice on this drug would be very helpful.

[*Jay*]

I've known quite a few dogs who had to have ACP for their vet appointments - I know that if it's a longer term thing, such as for fireworks etc, then Diazepam would be given instead, but ACP was always dispensed for one-off things. What is it that concerns you the most about it? Was the vet able to check her heart etc before dispensing it or did she put up too much of a fight?

[htc]

No the vet did not see the dog he has done before hence why he has suggested these tablets, I'm not happy about the fact I am told to do a trial run surely drugs should be given according to weight size and so on not just pot luck.

I have read some horror stories on the internet about this drug and the effects it has I cant really find any thing positive about it, most info I can find says the dog will still have fear but it will be worse as the dog will be heavily drugged.

[catcmartin]

Hi i know how you feel our Charlie 11y/o working cocker also hates going to the vet, but that bad memories he has of all he has been thru.  It is the waiting room he hates once he is in the treatment room they can do anything to hi  without a murmur.  have you ever tried bachs rescue remedy which you can buy in a spray and a couple of sprays into the mouth might calm her down enough to get things done and wont have any lasting effects.  Can be bought over the counter even in Tesco.

[fifer]

I understand your concerns, ACP (Acepromazine) should not be prescribed without examination, which kind of defeats the purpose in this case.  It depends on weight AND reaction (each dog differs).  I don't think the vet should have left it up to you to decide how much to give her either, having just had to advise someone on another forum to go back to the vet, that she should not be giving her dog 50/100 tablets on his worst days!!  TBH it's a wonder her dog was still alive.

Personally, I wouldn't give ACP to a "vet aggressive" dog, because as you so rightly point out there can be a deep seated fear instilled due to be tranquilized/immobilised but unable to react.  I would however *always* muzzle the dog prior to an appointment, uncomfortable for you to watch I know, but better than giving drugs.  

Perhaps diazepam would be a better option for this occasion but longer term I'd be tackling the problem by taking her to the vets, walking round the surgery etc at every opportunity just for the visit and socialisation - without anything being done to her - as this will help to ease her fears.

Hope you manage to sort it out, sounds like she is very unhappy at the vets.

[*Jay*]

The thing with these types of tablets is that it can be trial and error with regard to the dosing - the vet will obviously have a rough idea what your dog weighs so will have based the initial dosage on that. I know that when I put my dog on Diazepam, the vet gave me an initial dose going by body weight but he needed a bit more for it to be effective but I've known dogs need less than the recommended dose due to being completely zonked! Perhaps chat to your vet again and ask about using Diazepam instead if it's a fear based issue?

[Sharon]

One of my girls was given ACP after a stressful litter, she ended up having really bad fits (biting through my hand at one stage, obviously not knowing what she was doing)  but from now on I tell my vet under no circumstances to give ANY of my dogs this drug.

At the time, my vets backed each other and said they had never heard of a problem with this drug.....recently on a vets visit I again mentioned the ACP and he said 'oh I didn't realise cockers reacted to it, we won't use it on Boxers as we know it reacts badly with them!!!!!!'

So if it were me, after seeing what happened with one of my girls, I definitely wouldn't use it.

[htc]

To be honest I havent tried anything before the last 3 years I have taken her have got worse each time, it was following her being spayed that this problem started. The first time she showed aggression towards the vet we pinned her down and got on with it although she was screaming and wee'd every where, the second time she actually bit the vet quite badly and the third time the vet tried to get near her but she came out with teeth flying, so we took her outside muzzled her and brought her back in, we still had to practially pin her down all the time she screams and wee's.

I'll pop to tesco/pet shop and have a look to see what they have in the way of natural products, I might be making a big deal over these apc tablets but I can not find any good reports about them, I may phone a differnt vet today and ask there opion.

Thanks for you post fifer much appreciated I am not going to use these tablets I think I am just going to have to take her muzzled and deal with the aggression when I get there and look for a long term soloution to the problem.

[JennyBee]

I'm sorry, but pinning her down is not going to help her at all, and will just have confirmed her fears that the vets is a bad place to be . It sounds like she is very scared of the vets, I have no experience of this medication but I hope you can figure out a way to help ease her fears

[htc]

I'm sorry, but pinning her down is not going to help her at all, and will just have confirmed her fears that the vets is a bad place to be . It sounds like she is very scared of the vets, I have no experience of this medication but I hope you can figure out a way to help ease her fears

I am fully aware pinning her down is not helping it causes a lot of stress to her and me and I dont want to see my dog in such distress it brakes my heart to see it, but its the only way the vet has managed to do her jabs for the last few years, I think I should maybe look to change vets as if i'm honest I dont like my current vets and my dog defo doesnt.

Do vets do home visits for situations like this.?

[cdpops]

Hi
Charlie is exactly as you describe your dog to be at the vets, it's a horrible experience, I have tried all sorts to make it better, but his tail goes between his legs and he starts to shake as soon as he gets out of the car.
My vet makes it easier, by coming out to car when its time for him to go in, so he hasn't got to wait in surgery, having the vacination ready to give etc, and if I know he's going I give him Zylkene and sculcap and valerian for a few days before (Charlie not the vet  ). The other thing that makes him less stressed is me staying calm, which I know is easier said than done.
I have thought about the vet coming to our house to treat him, but it bothers me that he then might start to fear all males coming into the house.
  to you and your dog. Hope you find something that eases the situation.

[JennyBee]

I'm sorry, but pinning her down is not going to help her at all, and will just have confirmed her fears that the vets is a bad place to be . It sounds like she is very scared of the vets, I have no experience of this medication but I hope you can figure out a way to help ease her fears

I am fully aware pinning her down is not helping it causes a lot of stress to her and me and I dont want to see my dog in such distress it brakes my heart to see it, but its the only way the vet has managed to do her jabs for the last few years, I think I should maybe look to change vets as if i'm honest I dont like my current vets and my dog defo doesnt.

Do vets do home visits for situations like this.?

It must be really hard to see, I had a fear aggressive dog and while he was usually great at the vets, there was one time it all got too much for him and he ended up attacking the vet . I would look for a vets that is willing to help build her confidence up, I believe I read on here once about a vet who would see the dog in the car park as he just got too worked up in the consultation room? Hopefully someone will be have some advice, Rescue Remedy is good at calming dogs down but I'm not sure if it would work too well with your girl.

Welcome to the forum btw


ETA posted at the same time as cdpops!

[hollyd443]

I have a 10yr Old Collie (Sophie), who at the age of 2yrs had a very nasty injury to her foot which meant lots of treatment and built up a HUGE dislike for the vets that still remains today.  We're very lucky to have a very understanding vet who doesn't make eye contact with Sophie and keeps her back to her so to be as less a threat as possible. When it comes to the actual vacc, she has her muzzle on and is lifted like a forklift (one arm under her chin and round her neck and the other around her waist) which immobilises her temporarily while the vet puts the vacc in her bum (instead of her neck). It means she can't have a check up but the vacc is over and done with very quickly with as little stress as possible. Luckily *touches wood lots* she's only really ever had to go in for vaccs over the years and has only had to be examined once which was for a grass seed which meant sedating her.

[Hurtwood Dogs]

I'm sorry she's got to this stage.. I've never heard of APC but from what I've read here, I wouldn't give it. It's so important for dogs to have good experiences and feel relaxed at vets that I'd definitely move to a different practice - for the change of scene for your dog and also to find a vet that will help her rather than pin her down to get the job done.

My vets are very good and always use positive methods with the dogs and reward them with treats afterwards etc but I still have an issue with anyone else handling them for painful things - I'd rather do it because I know I can 'ask' them to be patient and they will, whereas if someone else scares them I maybe wouldn't have that trust anymore. None of my dogs have reacted well to being pushed or forced into things but if they've been allowed to get there under their own steam, it's somehow a lot less stressful for them and I've seen ALL of them look worried but try really hard and stay calm when I've asked them because they know there is good stuff in it at the end for them. Teaching commands like 'wait' and rewarding with high value treats at the end (do this out of the vets then practice it there without anything bad happening first etc)

There are lots of things you can try - distracting her with a tasty treat and slowly building up what's asked of her etc.. Starting with visits to a new vets where she litterally just walks around the waiting room and consulting room and is rewarded and goes home again will all help her initially too..

From my experiences (two cockers of very different temperament and one very big strong rescue Weimaraner who gets extremely stressed in new situations/confined spaces and with people/animals she doesn't know) you can build up trust and help dogs remain calm through procedures that are painful or situations that are scary for them.. so don't give up

[Helen]

my advice would be to firstly change vets - this one sounds horrendous TBH