how to stop stealing

[winewood]

Problem cocker, Indi has always been a pain in the """ when it comes stealing and going through bags and eating anything. So far candles small round ones, chocolate, Edinburgh rock, and yesterday Dimetapp capsules!!!! Although on count back I don't think she ate the dimetapp, split the capsule had a taste and left two on the floor!!!!!! and left the rest,  but yes I did panic, called the vet was told to give her charcol tabs in case  tried to get one of the charcol capsules (in my panic brought capsules instead of tablets) in and she spat it out then just crunched it so she ended up eating the rest out of my hand I've been in tears worrying at the thought of what could happen to her she must stop eating everything and taking great delight in rumaging through bedrooms, and bags to see what she can find.
The rules around here now are bedroom doors must be kept closed (chocolate found in bedroom) and now after yesterday has to be in the same room at all times so I know where she is, she is 3 years next month so not a naughty puppy. My plan is to set her up for stealing out of bags and then yell or do something to stop her from doing it. My vet suggested a water pistol, but I think she would enjoy this, I need suggestions, don't want to use a balloon as working on field work so don't want to frighten her with loud bang, will I be able to stop her.
My friend told me her cavalier is the same and said I will never be able to stop her she should never be trusted and treat her like a two year old child. I have never owned a dog like this before, Kody my boy is quiet and such a mummys boy he never leaves my side a year younger and has never done anything like it.
Help very worried, she is going to make me a very grey old lady before my time, 

[Cob-Web]

I don't like the idea of *setting her up* to fail in order to punish her - surely it is easier just to keep bins/bags out of her way?

My two will rummage if I leave a bag on the floor; it hasn't occurred to me that it is something I need to train them out of 

[suzysu]

My two would eat anything ...edible or not  if I left it around.  Try hard to make sure everything of danger is out of her way ..I know its difficult 

[Aearoniel]

I'm sure that you'll be able to train it out of her but it will take time. I agree with cob-web, setting her up to fail isn't a good plan you want to be finding ways to praise her for not doing it.

In our house anything and everything dangerous is kept from theiving cocker level. (She's had 5 toilet rolls so far!) but we have been working on her leave it command, we put treats infront of her and keeping a hand near it ask her to leave it after a few seconds (build time up) she can have it. Then when she is older we will let more things be at her level and any interest she shows "leave it" and praise plus treat if she doesn't touch.

[Robbie34]

I don't agree.  It's important that Indi's behaviour is modified, otherwise she could end up in very serious trouble.  Setting her up is probably the only way to do it. 

How does she react when you shout?  I don't like the idea of bangs or a water pistol.  I always told my dogs "NO," when they were doing something that I did not approve of, and it was effective.  None of them were thieves, and I can leave anything within reach of Charley and he wouldn't dream of taking it.  You could try this approach and reward her with a treat when she responds.  I think it will be a long process.



 

[Cazzie]

In an ideal world you will put everything away that they shouldnt pinch. I have this problem everyday in life and spend most nights retrieveing stuff from outside that was inside. I think the next house I move to will have nothing in it 

[Cob-Web]

The problem with using aversive techniques (shout/pistol/no) is not only that they carry the risk of causing additional problems unless they are applied by experienced trainers, but also that they require you to be present every time the behaviour happens, not just in a training environment.

If you use aversives "sometimes" then what happens is that the dog is punished for the behaviour when you are there, and rewarded (by stealing/chewing etc) when you are not there - and there is a real risk that you teach the dog is to steal when you are not around    If you "set her up" to train her, you would still need to move everything when you are not there to supervise her until the training is successful and the behaviour is reliable - and it could take several weeks - by which time, you will be in the habit of putting stuff away and out of reach anyway 

My house was already puppy-proof, with everything out of reach, when Molo arrived because lil'bit was three years old; and toddlers are just as bad as, if not worse than, pesky pups.   Perhaps I could have used a water-pistol on her....... 

[jakesmum]

I agree with Cob-Web. With aversion therapy you may be able to stop her from scavenging whilst you're there - but what about when you're not?

I would think it's fairly natural behaviour for dogs to get into bags etc when they're within reach so I personally wouldn't be up for setting her up and punishing her for doing what comes naturally. Certainly in my house I expect that if it gets left within reach, it gets snaffled by Jake..but then again, he is just a puppy and I don't know if it might settle down when he gets older.

Mind you, one thing I have learnt so far is that different training methods work for different people and different dogs, so give it a go if you think you've tried the other, positive reinforcement, alternatives. Or, just keep everything out of reach!

Good luck

[MacTavish Boys]

i totally agree with everything Rachel has said, George, who is 3 next month is forever trying to steal things most dogs if you leave something within their reach, especially food of some description,will try and steal it. i have learnt from my mistakes and try and keep things out of their reach i certainly would not use a water pistol or any other negative means in which to stop them

Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx

[Robbie34]

Saying NO is not an aversion technique.  The dog simply has to learn the boundaries of good behaviour, otherwise you have a dog that cannopt be trusted.

To suggest that the dog is being punished by saying NO is nonsense.  Dogs have to learn, just like children.  Many people think it's hilarious when puppies misbehave and they make no attempt to check them.  It isn't rocket science to say no and not allow a puppy to indulge itself.  When that puppy becomes an adult the same behaviour is no longer funny.  Dogs are naturally inquisitive but there is a limit to how far this can be allowed.

My dog knows the meaning of no: he also knows the meaning of stay.  When we are out walking - he is on a long lead - and we are going to cross the road, Charley will stay at the kerb.  Sometimes, he stops and then goes on, so a swift NO stops him in his tracks.  When I say OK, he will cross and I say Good Boy.  Constant reinforcement is necessary in all aspects of training.

[AnnieM]

Saying NO is not an aversion technique.  The dog simply has to learn the boundaries of good behaviour, otherwise you have a dog that cannopt be trusted.

To suggest that the dog is being punished by saying NO is nonsense.  Dogs have to learn, just like children.  Many people think it's hilarious when puppies misbehave and they make no attempt to check them.  It isn't rocket science to say no and not allow a puppy to indulge itself.  When that puppy becomes an adult the same behaviour is no longer funny.  Dogs are naturally inquisitive but there is a limit to how far this can be allowed.

My dog knows the meaning of no: he also knows the meaning of stay.  When we are out walking - he is on a long lead - and we are going to cross the road, Charley will stay at the kerb.  Sometimes, he stops and then goes on, so a swift NO stops him in his tracks.  When I say OK, he will cross and I say Good Boy.  Constant reinforcement is necessary in all aspects of training.

Totally agree with this, my three all learned the 'leave it' command and I can now walk out of the room and leave my dinner on the coffee table, just point to it and say leave it and even Archie who is very food motivated won't go anywhere near it.  It was just built up over time using something on the floor that they could never have (maybe a sandwich) and walking them past it on lead, a sharp tug if they tried to go for it and the 'leave it' command, this carried on until we could walk past it off lead and gave the 'leave it' command.  It takes a long time, but a dog can definitely be taught not to 'touch' things that are not theirs, you still have to be careful though as like children they all have their moments.  Medicines, chocolates, chemicals etc.  and high value posessions, should never be left within a dogs reach.

[Aearoniel]

Saying NO is not an aversion technique.  The dog simply has to learn the boundaries of good behaviour, otherwise you have a dog that cannopt be trusted.

To suggest that the dog is being punished by saying NO is nonsense.  Dogs have to learn, just like children.  Many people think it's hilarious when puppies misbehave and they make no attempt to check them.  It isn't rocket science to say no and not allow a puppy to indulge itself.  When that puppy becomes an adult the same behaviour is no longer funny.  Dogs are naturally inquisitive but there is a limit to how far this can be allowed.

My dog knows the meaning of no: he also knows the meaning of stay.  When we are out walking - he is on a long lead - and we are going to cross the road, Charley will stay at the kerb.  Sometimes, he stops and then goes on, so a swift NO stops him in his tracks.  When I say OK, he will cross and I say Good Boy.  Constant reinforcement is necessary in all aspects of training.

Totally agree with this, my three all learned the 'leave it' command and I can now walk out of the room and leave my dinner on the coffee table, just point to it and say leave it and even Archie who is very food motivated won't go anywhere near it.  It was just built up over time using something on the floor that they could never have (maybe a sandwich) and walking them past it on lead, a sharp tug if they tried to go for it and the 'leave it' command, this carried on until we could walk past it off lead and gave the 'leave it' command.  It takes a long time, but a dog can definitely be taught not to 'touch' things that are not theirs, you still have to be careful though as like children they all have their moments.  Medicines, chocolates, chemicals etc.  and high value posessions, should never be left within a dogs reach.

Saying NO is different to "Leave it" no is a punishment where as leave it is a command which can be followed by praise.

Senario one:

Dog: goes in bag
Owner: NO!
Dog: Huh what what did I do! better run away quick with my thingy.

Senario two:
Dog: goes in bag
Owner: Leave it
Dog: ooh i shouldn't touch this if I stop and leave it I'll get a treat.
Owner: good dog here have a treat for leaving it after a while no treat as the dog should stop going in things.

Eventually with the second option you get a dog that knows he has to leave things that aren't his with the first he is just getting told off with no praise involved so he won't learn.

[Annette]

I actually think both Rachel and Robbie are right

I have no problem with teaching a dog to leave stuff, and in my opinion you can use whatever word you like. I also believe that dogs are smart enough to learn what "no" means in the same way that t year lod children can. When Ben (human) was very small we tried to make sure that we had one command which would stop him in his tracks. This might sound odd, but it was so that we could stop him immediately if we saw his hand going towards a hot plate or fire, and if we saw him heading too close to the road. We used the word "stop" for that but "no" would have been just as good. What we wanted was an immediate response which we could then explain afterwards when he was safe. In the case of a dog, instead of an explanation you would just remove the item or the dog.

However I do really believe that if you leave stuff at dog level you have to accept that it just night be pinched! Dogs scavenge and steal. And like Rachel said, punishment will only teach them to not do it while you are around (our current issue is with access to a chair and sofa!!!! Both usually warm when I come home!).

So, in summary: my opinion is that any punishment is counter-productive even if it is the word "no". But training can include the word "no" if you wish!

[JenSam]

In an ideal world you will put everything away that they shouldnt pinch. I have this problem everyday in life and spend most nights retrieveing stuff from outside that was inside. I think the next house I move to will have nothing in it 

We are exactly the same.

Every morning before we leave for work we need to cover up the house phone, but remote controls out of reach and remove anything moveable out of Sam's reach.  It takes time, but you get used to it.

[Cazzie]

Saying NO is different to "Leave it" no is a punishment where as leave it is a command which can be followed by praise.

Senario one:

Dog: goes in bag
Owner: NO!
Dog: Huh what what did I do! better run away quick with my thingy.

Senario two:
Dog: goes in bag
Owner: Leave it
Dog: ooh i shouldn't touch this if I stop and leave it I'll get a treat.
Owner: good dog here have a treat for leaving it after a while no treat as the dog should stop going in things.

Eventually with the second option you get a dog that knows he has to leave things that aren't his with the first he is just getting told off with no praise involved so he won't learn.
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Agree with this 100%

With Goose my Lab I have to trade so to speak with everything he picks up, when he was younger I used to tell him no when he picked up things or helped himself to what he fancied from every room in the house.

Now as he is a born retriever and I use him to work retrieveing, by telling him no not to pick up stuff his training took a backwards step, he was becoming reluctant to bring things back to me and would turn away from me trying to hide what he had. I changed the way I deal with him picking things up that he fancied by exchanging them for fantastic toys as a reward and lots of praise for doing so. I do have to be careful what I leave lying around but if its something like a towel or bath mat or my jammies I leave him with it and make a huge fuss of him telling him what a great boy he is, it has resulted in him retrieveing to me birds perfectly.