losing confidence?

[bluesmum]

twice in the last couple of months blue has taken a nasty bite on the nose,  once from a border collie :evil:  that he usually walked with and then from a westie  :evil:  that just jumped on him and attacked him!!!!!!!!!! both times blue was walking on the lead!? now whenever blue see's the collie who he refuses point blank to walk with anymore he just wants to run in the opposite direction :?: but still seems overjoyed to see other dogs he knows  :?:  he used to be such a confident little guy  but now seems to just stand still whenever we pass a strange dog and wont budge till they've gone!!!!  :oops:                    

[Mary]

The same happened to Lottie a few months back.  She was attacked twice, both times when my husband was walking her and she was on her lead.  Both times it was by larger dogs and although she was OK going for walks she was also fairly edgy when other dogs approached.  I would always let her off her lead and continue walking, giving a confident appearance to reassure her there was no problem.  She'd give larger dogs a wide berth :wink: If he is on his lead, jolly him along in a confident manner.

It took a little while for her to regain her confidence but she's absolutely fine with larger dogs again now. She actually played with one over the field on Sunday which was almost identical to the one that bit her The only dogs she seems dubious of now are boxers.  Some seem to have a fairly aggressive stance though :?                    

[bluesmum]

Thanks mary,

I feel like i've tried everything, i.e.: telling him to walk on, ignoring him, i've even tried treats!!  :wink: but nothing seems to work!

As you said in your reply mary, it's going to take time, and i'll keep trying with the confident approach you suggested and hopefully Blue will be back to his happy little self very soon.  


Maria & Blue                    

[Kim]

I think that I would probably just let him stop & watch, while a strange dog passes him, until he regains his confidence.

My Frankie used to do this whilst out walking, every time a car or person/bike/pushchair went past.
Once he realised that none of these things were going to "kill him" he gradually learnt to ignore them.

Don't reassure him in any way tho, as this can compound his fear that there is something to be wary of, once he starts moving, just say "good boy".                    

[bluesmum]

Hi Kim, at the moment Blue himself gives me no other option than to stand and wait with him! :oops:  - he being the stubborn little rascal that he is!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted:

  Maria & Blue                      

[bluesmum]

Just thought i'd update you on Blues progress, or should i say lack of it!!

well he's no longer losing confidence which is a good thing  but the problem i'm having now is that maybe he's gained a little too much confidence :shock:

We were with Emma and Indie on the beach on friday when we came across a puppy and Blue really growled at him, I put this down to the fact that he was protecting Indie and that maybe Indie is coming into season, I have never seen this side of Blue before and he has always been a submissive dog and always friendly towards other dogs :? and then again today he growed at Nell who he loves and has played with since a pup!! :shock:After the initial growl he then quite happily settled down to play with Nell :?

Another thing that he's just done that he's never ever done is wee'd in the house!!! :evil:  now i've always been so lucky with Blue and this is the first time that this has happened! I just dont know whats going on or what to do about it?

I'm so confused as this is all so out of character for Blue!?                    

[Mike]

If I didnt know any better Maria, I'd say it was Blue who was coming into season! But of course, that cant be so, so maybe it is connected to his own hormones, or those of Indie who may be due? It's difficult to say to be honest. My own cocker is 2 in March and has in the past month or so become a bit 'flighty' around other dogs after seeing off one who went for my springer - she now seems to have fallen into protective mode automatically whenever other dogs approach - even ones she has played with over the last 2 yrs or so - barking at them and at times, also chasing them away (not every single time, but enough for me to take note). She's turned into a rude dog! Based on this, I think I'd lean more towards Blue's current behaviour being related to his experiences with the Collie and the Westie. How you (we) move forwards from this I'm not entirely sure - my current approach is not to avoid situations with other dogs - if I do that, she'll never learn - but actually seek them out, then try and guide Daisy into being a bit more polite - I think it might be a gradual process and in time she'll hopefully forget that she needed to be protective in the first place - sadly, this will probably only be until the next time someone else's dog is rude to mine                      

[Colin]

Mike could be right, Blue has reached adolesence and has discovered that some dogs will now view him differently as a result. They will be less inclined to tolerate behaviour they accepted from a puppy, especially other males. He's now a potential rival. Maybe his experiences of being bitten have told him he needs to discover a whole new language and he's trying things out, see how far he can go...... practising on easy targets like a puppy and laid back Nel. That's just me guessing, mind you.

I had a similar problem with Jimmy at around the 18 month mark. He got attacked a couple of times and became very suspicious of other dogs and very defensive. It was always with other males. For about 2 weeks it was a nightmare walking him as he was getting into constant scrapes. All but one time it appeared to me that he was the innocent party, although I can't be sure as he may have been sending out the wrong signals with his body language. These things can be really difficult for us humans to spot.

I'd be inclined to just keep an eye on him, returning him to the lead may give him the impression he was right to be edgy and just compound the problem. Hopefully he'll learn this new adult doggie ettiquette pretty quickly and things will go back to normal, apart from the occassional run-in they have with Jimmy. Whenever things look potentially confrontational I get a ball out for Jimmy and put on my most positive , cheery doggie voice to distract him. It usually works.                    

[bluesmum]

Thank you both very much for your replies and i do think also that it is probably his hormones.

At the time of the incident with Nell i was playing ball with Blue (Ive been using this to better Blues recall) After Blue growled at Nell I told him "no" had him sit then released him to carry on playing where he played ok after that for a good half hour with no problems.

Am I doing the right thing?                    

[Mike]

Blue could have a protective-thing about his ball... the only time my two ever get snippy with each other, is over chewies... or over a tennis ball! It's not enough to give them one each - Daisy always wants the one Jazz has, and Jazz always wants the one Daisy has... dogs  :roll: My springer especially is very ball-centric. So Blue's growl towards Nell could just have been an example of this.

It doesnt sound like you're doing anything wrong Maria, so it's probably best to chalk this one down to experience, and just keep an eye out for any instances/scenarios in which Blue might display similar behaviour  :wink:                    

[bluesmum]

It doesnt sound like you're doing anything wrong Maria, so it's probably best to chalk this one down to experience, and just keep an eye out for any instances/scenarios in which Blue might display similar behaviour  :wink:

Thank you Mike, I really needed to hear that  

i also posted about Blues change in behaviour onto another site for some help and it was said by a dog trainer that Blue had probably wee'd in the house as a result of me telling him "no" and called me an "angry owner!" :shock:  - An angry owner! she couldnt have been further from the truth :roll: Also the way that people use the forum was terrible they were so rude! :evil:  

Needless to say that I will not be posting on there any more, and will stick with you guys, who are a much nicer group of people. :wink:                      

[Colin]

Hi Maria

I've just seen the thread on the other forum, they can be like wild savages on there sometimes. :roll:  Some of the advice the rude lady gave you was quite good, gawd knows why she found the need to be like that though. She actually lifted some of what she said directly from another source passing it off as her own...... it is copyrighted too. :roll: Here is a link to the full article....  

http://www.flyingdogpress.com/sayhi.html

It's a long article but very interesting, Jane sent it to me when I was having these problems with Jimmy. Reading it does make you realise that growling, barking etc are just natural dog responses to certain situations and not necessarily signs of aggression. You'll need an hour to take it all in though.

Incidentally the one bad incident that Jimmy caused was over his ball, it rolled into the lap of another dog,  when he went to get it the other dog objected resulting in a fight. This dog was the same age as Jimmy and they been friends since pups, neither of them trust each other anymore but they can be walked together again, which wasn't the case for a while.                    

[bluesmum]

Thanks Colin,

going to take a look now. :wink:                    

[Hel]

Hi Maria

The response you got on that board by that person beggars belief!  

I love this bit:  "A dog that plays with 50 different freindly dogs a week and gets 'attacked' by one is less likely to be affected by the bad experience than one that meets, say, 2 dogs and one is freindly and one isn't.

It sounds true but so often isn't.  A bad experience can very often seriously affect any dog, as many owners will know.  

My rescue Pip was fine with every dog he met on a walk (and he met a least 50 in a week ) despite him being on a lead.  That was until both Fletch and Pip were attacked by an off-lead and out-of-control atika intent on a kill.  Since then, Pip is a bit of nightmare, desperately trying to warn off dogs bigger than him.  I find walking him with a friend who has two big dogs off lead makes him feel more comfortable and he doesn't then feel the need to warn off other big dogs that we meet.

Helen                    

[bluesmum]

Helen - The attack on Fletch and Pip must have been awful for both the dogs and yourself, and i can quite understand the need for Fletch to warn off bigger dogs, maybe Blue is feeling the same, - although he was attacked on a much smaller scale to Fletch and Pip, i dont suppose his feelings will be any different.

Colin - A most interesting read, that will make me much more aware of Blues feelings in the future :wink: