Aggressive behaviour

[shonajoy]

I've been hesitant to post this as if I do he'll get better, it's sod's law!

Anyway, Indie has really been getting aggressive towards the kids recently, and bit Megan (9) last night. She was walking through to the kitchen, and Indie lunged at her ankle, he often follows the kids and tries and grabs their trousers, and growls. I always tell him no for doing this, but there's not much improvement.

I shouted *NO!* , and physically put him in another room for 5 minutes. I'm worried about this though - he was wagging his tail as though it was a game, but he was snarling and shaking his head at the same time. He looked mad, really angry.

I'm worried to be honest, he's 18 weeks old, and I want to stop this. Any ideas?                    

[*Jay*]

Hi Shona,

Some people may remember I had the exact same problem with Vegas, my orange roan.  I honestly thought he was the dog of the devil and his nickname was Vegas 666 :twisted:  One of my main problems was when I took him outside to do his business, he would grab my trouser legs and snarl and tug at them. At one point, I had my leg in the air with a cocker dangling from it - he just wasn't letting go :x  I just had to keep saying 'NO' very firmly and then try and distract him with something else. It did take an awful long time for it to sink in with him - he was a complete horror until he was about 7 months(this was partly down to the fact that Ped Chum was making him hyper - something I now know in hindsight) I would say that what you are doing is probably the best way to go - a stern "NO" and then giving him a time out for a few minutes. He will soon learn that the behaviour means that he doesn't get the pleasure of your company. When you are putting him into another room, don't say anything at all to him - just put him in and leave him. After a few minutes, go back and let him out and just forgive and forget. If possible, try and get the kids to stand still and not to make a huge fuss about it as this makes the game seem more appealing to him - thats what i found with Vegas anyhow. A bit difficult i know with a dog attached to your ankle :wink:  Just persevere and be consistent and I'm sure he will grow out of it.                    

[Jane S]

I agree totally with Gill's advice but would just say that Indie is not actually being aggressive in the sense you mean - this is how puppies play with their litter mates so in effect Indie is treating your children as he would his litter brothers & sisters. It may sound aggressive but it is just rough playing. This sort of rough play does involve lots of nipping & growling but it is fairly normal.  It takes a while for puppies to learn that they cannot play with their humans as they would with another puppy - some pups take longer than others :wink: If you persevere with Gill's advice though, you should see a gradual improvement                    

[PennyB]

Ruby was an absolute demon when she was a pup of the same age and my legs took quite a battering. I used to have to stand up and remove myself from the vicinity of her teeth if ever this happened. Thankfully, when Wilf went through this stage he took it all out on Ruby                    

[shonajoy]

Hi Shona,

Some people may remember I had the exact same problem with Vegas, my orange roan.  I honestly thought he was the dog of the devil and his nickname was Vegas 666 :twisted:  One of my main problems was when I took him outside to do his business, he would grab my trouser legs and snarl and tug at them. At one point, I had my leg in the air with a cocker dangling from it - he just wasn't letting go :x  I just had to keep saying 'NO' very firmly and then try and distract him with something else. It did take an awful long time for it to sink in with him - he was a complete horror until he was about 7 months(this was partly down to the fact that Ped Chum was making him hyper - something I now know in hindsight) I would say that what you are doing is probably the best way to go - a stern \"NO\" and then giving him a time out for a few minutes. He will soon learn that the behaviour means that he doesn't get the pleasure of your company. When you are putting him into another room, don't say anything at all to him - just put him in and leave him. After a few minutes, go back and let him out and just forgive and forget. If possible, try and get the kids to stand still and not to make a huge fuss about it as this makes the game seem more appealing to him - thats what i found with Vegas anyhow. A bit difficult i know with a dog attached to your ankle :wink:  Just persevere and be consistent and I'm sure he will grow out of it.

Oh, Gill, you have no idea how happy I am that I'm not alone - the vision of you with a dog hanging off your leg made me smile, thanks so much for sharing that.

I was just getting to the stage again where everything I say is no, he seems to be very strong willed indeed. I'll persevere, I'm glad to know that Vegas got the message, Vegas 666 lol!

He's on Burns mini bites/nature diet, and I'll keep at it, thanks!

Shona                    

[shonajoy]

I agree totally with Gill's advice but would just say that Indie is not actually being aggressive in the sense you mean - this is how puppies play with their litter mates so in effect Indie is treating your children as he would his litter brothers & sisters. It may sound aggressive but it is just rough playing. This sort of rough play does involve lots of nipping & growling but it is fairly normal.  It takes a while for puppies to learn that they cannot play with their humans as they would with another puppy - some pups take longer than others :wink: If you persevere with Gill's advice though, you should see a gradual improvement

Thanks Jane, that makes a lot of sense, I'll keep at it. I feel much better

Shona                    

[cindere528]

That all reminds me of when Robin was a baby (19 years ago).  My son, Duncan, was 6 at the time & Robin took a dislike to Duncan's ankles/feet.  Poor Duncan kept asking me to send the puppy back, he said he didn't like him because he bit his ankles.  I refused, & told him he must stand quite still when Robin did this because by shaking his feet about to shake Robin off, or by trying to run away he was making a game for Robin. The poor child's ankles got quite scarred by all the bites. Looking back, I could have been prosecuted for child abuse! Anyway, Duncan is now a happy, healthy well balanced 25 year old & Robin went to the bridge nearly 3 years ago, so he had a very long & happy life.

Keep up the good work Shona, tell the kids to keep still when Indie starts "biting" & they'll all get over it.  It may not be a good idea  to have other children round to play though until Indie is over this phase in his playfulness.  If Indie "bites" a child from another family, they may not understand that it was just puppy play.                      

[PennyB]

Sam, our 1st cocker managed to rip my sisters ear when she was a pup. My sister was about 12 at the time and was screaming the place down...because she was worried Sam might have to be put to sleep! She wasn't of course                    

[shonajoy]

That all reminds me of when Robin was a baby (19 years ago).  My son, Duncan, was 6 at the time & Robin took a dislike to Duncan's ankles/feet.  Poor Duncan kept asking me to send the puppy back, he said he didn't like him because he bit his ankles.  I refused, & told him he must stand quite still when Robin did this because by shaking his feet about to shake Robin off, or by trying to run away he was making a game for Robin. The poor child's ankles got quite scarred by all the bites. Looking back, I could have been prosecuted for child abuse! Anyway, Duncan is now a happy, healthy well balanced 25 year old & Robin went to the bridge nearly 3 years ago, so he had a very long & happy life.  

Keep up the good work Shona, tell the kids to keep still when Indie starts \"biting\" & they'll all get over it.  It may not be a good idea  to have other children round to play though until Indie is over this phase in his playfulness.  If Indie \"bites\" a child from another family, they may not understand that it was just puppy play.  

Thank Cindere, that's good to know. Megs is good at standing still, and he's been slightly better today, the scamp.

I haven't had any kids over recently, and when I have I supervise him constantly, I totally know what you mean, and I'm paranoid about that happening.

Many thanks

Shona                    

[shonajoy]

Sam, our 1st cocker managed to rip my sisters ear when she was a pup. My sister was about 12 at the time and was screaming the place down...because she was worried Sam might have to be put to sleep! She wasn't of course

Indie scratched Harry's ear about a month ago, and he was worried about the same thing! Bless.

Shona                    

[Tuuli]

Hi.  I have just joined CockersOnline. I have a blue roan 12 week-old cocker called Bailey.  I was working in the kitchen when I suddenly felt a little nip on my leg and then a bit harder nip.  Bailey was trying to bite me!
Where have I gone wrong!  I told him Off! but he seemed to think that it was a game and surged forward again. First I tried to walk away from him but it was no good. I had to take hold of his collar and guide him outside.  We have fenced the patio for him so it was safe to leave him there for a while.  Otherwise he is a lovely puppy. He has never kept us awake during the night.  He learned to sit very quickly and now he has learned (almost) to wait until I say Go! before he can touch his food.  He comes when I call him by his name.  With all this I thought that he is perfect!  And now this!  I was so revealed when I read that this is quite common and that there are ways to to stop this behaviour.                    

[PennyB]

I wouldn't worry that this is it and 'where have you gone wrong'. Pups are trying at the best of times and have very short concentration spans so whatever we try to teach them at this age can take a long time to deal with.

I wouldn't use his collar as a means of getting him to do something as this can have repurcussions further down the line. I'd basically put him out by carrying him.

This is an awful phase they go through (if only being one of the most painful) as Ruby was the same but you've just got to be persistent and patient as it will take time and won't be remedied overnight as they really are still babies at 12 weeks.