constant crying

[gina]

Can anyone help with our one year old cocker, Barkley??

My partner and i cannot go anywhere in the house, this includes nipping to the loo, or going upstairs, without Barkley cryingand fretting for us to come back.

We have had him since he was 9 weeks old and he is not allowed upstairs at all, sounds cruel but my partner did not want him in the bedroom as he would follow us upstairs if he could.

We have changed his diet on the advice of a behaviorlist, as she said this would help and although he is alot calmer when he is with us, he still frets when he cannot see us.

Barkley is left alone for periods in the day and although a little distructive, (wallpaper off the walls etc) we understand he just settles down and sleeps whilst we are out, he also has kongs and the like to entertain himself.

Any advice would be welcome, i know he just wants to be with us all the time, but this is not always possible.  

He's fine at night and sleeps at the bottom of the stairs (we have a gate  so he cannot get up the stairs). When we got him the idea was for him to sleep in the conservatory, but he would not settle in there and as we are open plan and have no doors into the kitchen he has just got into the habit of sleeping on a rug at the foot of the stairs.  He will also cry in the morning when he wakes until one of us gets up.

He is my constant shadow when we are together which is one of the things i love about him, but at the same time i am worried that it is not healthy for him to be worrying all the time that he cannot get to us.

Sorry to go on, other than this problem he is adorable and i would not be without him for the world.

Any suggestions welcome!!!                    

[Eljay]

Hi Gina,

I know what it's like to have a cocker who is a bit vocal :?  Alfie is adorable but he is very attached and if we go out he would howl  :oops:
So much so that when he was a pup my neighbour, (who works from an office in her bedroom) would hear the noise and ring me at work to ask if she could get him as he sounded so pityful :oops:  :oops:
He wasn't left on his own much as my hubby is there most of the time during the day. Anyway someone on this site told us about a D.A.P. diffuser. It plugs in to a socket a bit like those room freshners you can buy and it gives off a hormone smell like that of their mother, it's supposed to calm them down. Well I would try anything as I was getting desperate and so far it seems to work. I kept it plugged in for a few weeks at first to build up the smell for him. (Humans can't smell it by the way) Now I just use it if I know I'm going to be out for more than an hour. I got mine online as the local pet stores don't seem to have it.
www.naturalpetcare.co.uk if it's any help.
Good luck with Barkley, I'm sure things will get better in time. Alfie is now 19months and seems to be more settled.    famous last words.                    

[PennyB]

Sounds very much like your dog has separation anxiety. Ruby had that for a short while. I work at home but the dogs aren't allowed upstairs and she began weeing on the floor every time I went upstairs to work. At 1st I didn't associate it with this and thought she may have forgotten her housetraining. I solved the problem by every time I came downstairs for a break and then went back upstairs I didn't give her a fuss. I totally ignored her for about 5 minutes or so until she'd settled down and then gave her a fuss on my terms. Some people don't always agree with Jan Fennells books (Dog listener) but I found it worked. We show our love for our dogs a little too much sometimes and they then begin to feel responsible for our welfare and worry about us when we are not there. Dealing with separation anxiety can involve showing them that we don't need looking after by them.

I have recently had to help a friend rehome a dog she'd had only for a month becuase he had severe separation anxiety. He'd had 4 homes in 4 years and was very insecure to the point where they couldn't have a good nights sleep—she wasn't in a position to deal with this as she also had other personal issues going on so the vet had to give her dog sedatives for a couple of nights. This is quite an extreme case and also has a happy ending—I found a lovely rescue in West Wales who helps and rehomes dogs who have behavioural probs among all the other dogs they rehome, and he's very happy there waiting for his new home.                    

[Anita]

I have just read Jan Fennells book - over the weekend! and I thought it was great. Phoebe is a little love but can be a bit grumpy at night if we make a fuss of her. So I thought I'd read the book and see what I thought. A lot of what she says we have done with Phoebe when she was a pup but we're doing the ignoring on return to emphasis our status in the pack. We don't have any other issues with her or her behavour just the grumpiness.

Its starting to work already. To me it did make a lot of sense and what really struck me was that the dogs get upset when we leave them becuase they think we're their children rather than the other way round. How would you feel if you  didn't know where your children were or whether they were ever coming back to you.

I know that everyone will have a different view on her book but I enjoyed it and it struck a cord with me.                    

[LindaW]

Barkley is suffering from separation anxiety.  It is best to get him used to being left for short periods of time to start with and don't make a fuss or talk to him when you leave .  When you return to thehouse, don't immediately go to him especially if he is barking.  When he is quiety go to him and praise him.  It will be difficult.  If he starts whining before you leave and you say something to him then you are effectively reinforcing his fear.
It will be difficult and will take time.  
To stop him from being bored maybe you could get him a kong toy and stuff it with something tasty to keep him occupied.  Good luck                    

[PennyB]

Barkley is suffering from separation anxiety.  It is best to get him used to being left for short periods of time to start with and don't make a fuss or talk to him when you leave .  When you return to thehouse, don't immediately go to him especially if he is barking.  When he is quiety go to him and praise him.  It will be difficult.  If he starts whining before you leave and you say something to him then you are effectively reinforcing his fear.
It will be difficult and will take time.  
To stop him from being bored maybe you could get him a kong toy and stuff it with something tasty to keep him occupied.  Good luck

This is good advice from Linda even though Barkley is suffering from separation anxiety if you are in the house with him not when you leave the house. May sound bizarre but Ruby did this but I followed the jan Fennell advice of ignoring her when I went upstairs and then not fussing her when I came back down (this also means no eye contact).                    

[gina]

Thank you for all of your advice, we have already tried ignoring him, as suggested, but will try again and will try to ignor him better (if you know what i mean)

Gina                    

[Magic Star]

Hi Gina

So sorry to hear your having a few problems with Barkley   I just wanted to let you know that I have also been through this, with my old GSD rescue "Sheba" she came to us at the age of 4 1/2 and was in a terrible state both emotionally and physically, she had a lot of health issues that we managed to sort with medication.  However, the emotional side of it was the hard bit!  She started howling the minute there was noone in the house :roll:  she was scared, she had had so many different homes and been dumped so many times  She was basically an insecure dog through no fault of her own, her howls where cries for help! The neighbours soon got fed up, and started to complain :roll:  which I suppose I couldn't blame them really, I had to do something about it, or it would mean yet another home for Sheba :cry:

I had a pet behaviourist come out, who although was good, she didn't really give me any other advise, that I hadn't already tried :?  The leaving for very short periods of time, basically I would put my coat on, and you could almost see the sadness in Shebas eyes, that she knew she was going to be alone :wink:  then I would move to the door, open and close it and go back in, then I would actually go through the door for literally a few minutes, come back in, I made the times longer and longer, I would say nothing to her atall, not even look at her, although it was really hard for me not to   I did this over about 2 weeks, increasing the times and inbetween mum would go in and see to her too   It was very hard work, and at first I thought it wasn't going to work :roll:   But she started to improve, she would still howl for about 5 mins after I left but then would stop, I used to walk up and down outside to see if I could hear her :oops:  It was heartbreaking to hear her, but in the long run this was going to benefit her as much me and of course the neighbours

To cut to the chase she improved about 75% which was not perfect but was certainly a great achievement on her part, she had gained trust back, and realised that she can cope without me and vice versa   What I am trying to say is stick with Barkley follow some advise, either from your vet or from boards like this one, things are sure to improve with Barkley in time, hes maybe thinking that he just can't be without you for a second, teach him he can, it takes time, patience and tears, you will get there eventually

Good luck with it, please let me know how you get on                    

[T]

We have the same problem with Charlie-Spud!!

He isn't allowed upstairs either, follows us to the downstairs loo too! and is a shadow! Well, the other night he sat at the bottom of the stairs crying and eventually barking as I tried to relax in the bath for 10 mins!  

A few weeks ago he started barking/howling more after us & has also started crying really bad in the morning, which we've put down to the lighter mornings ( it's our first year owning a dog so getting use to the seasons & changes so still learning, just as he is really! )

We're currently doing a strict ignore with no eye contact when going up & down stairs, coming home, leaving a room, coming back to a room ... and boy it's soooooo hard!!    BUT ... we have already seen an improvement which is great for us but more so for him as like you we thought it can't be good for him to get so worked up!

                     

[gina]

I'm glad there is someone out there going through the same thing!
When you ignor him (no eye contact etc) after you are coming and going, how long do you ignore him for??

Also, how long have you been doing this, and how long until you saw an improvement?

So many questions                    

[Magic Star]

Hi Gina,

I used to ignore Sheba for however long it took her to lose interest in me :roll:  ranged from 5 mins to 15 mins.

Hope this helps, stick with it                    

[markjcage]

I haven't read the Jan Fennell book but am interested to know why she feels that 'we are their children' when we leave them. To me it seems more likely that the dog would feel that we are off 'hunting' during the time that they are left at home, and that they are the 'children' left in the 'den'.

Any thoughts?                    

[Maria]

I haven't read the Jan Fennell book but am interested to know why she feels that 'we are their children' when we leave them.

My recollection is that Jan works on the basis that our dogs act with us as if they are in a feral pack, where each member has a particular place in the hierarchy. If by our treatment we have 'elevated' our dogs position, so that they think they are 'top dog' of our pack, then they feel responsible for the protection,safety and welfare of the rest of the pack (ie us). Therefore , if we go out without them, they may feel unable to protect us and this may cause them some stress / anxiety (similar  to parents when their children first venture out alone). It is this that can then cause them to bark, howl, cry etc etc. Her advice (based on observing  dog behaviour) is to correct your dog's position in the pack , and part of this would include the ignoring when first reunited. I have to say I found her book made a lot of sense to me, but there are obviously, other schools of thought who don't believe that the pack theory relates to humans.


I'm sure if I've remembered this incorrectly some other wise person will assist!                    

[T]

... how long do you ignore him for?? ...

... ranged from 5 mins to 15 mins. ...

Yep, very similar, it was at least 5 mins but could be longer, but now it's only 2-3 mins before CS sits down and waits. It is hard even if he is jumping up, cos normally we say 'Down' but we even stopped this as it wasn't 'ignoring'!  :roll: now we just turn to the side or step back and he gets the hint.

... how long have you been doing this, and how long until you saw an improvement? ...

About 10 days now for us ... that's why it was so good to see your post as it was such a coincidence and we felt that 'not alone' feeling too!    Within the first few days he started to realise, and we felt soooooo bad as he'd look sooooo cute & sad like "what have I done wrong?"!!!! In the last few days it's still not there, but getting there and yeah he still crys at the bottom of the stairs but now stops & starts rather than continuously.

Mmm ... he's not stopped the morning crying at all tho'    ... we're looking for a blackout blind for the backdoor.

Love to know how ya getting on!!

                     

[gina]

Hi All

Many thanks for your replies, we going to start the ignoring thing in ernest tomorrow, have already tried a couple of times and by the look on Barkley's face he's quite confused :shock: .

Has anyone else got any other tips for removing Barkley from the top of our pack, things we can do to help get the message across, as i'm sure once he knows he doesn't have to worry about us all of the time, everything will hopefully fall into place.

Thanks again to all of the advice.

Gina