Author Topic: working harness  (Read 8428 times)

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Offline Londongirl

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Re: working harness
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2017, 01:03:41 PM »
Sticking my oar in here rather cheekily as I don't have a working dog and have never used a slip lead. But just wanted to say that SOMETIMES there is a better way of doing things, even if the current way is almost perfect, and looking to find an alternative is always an interesting pursuit. History is full of people doing things the best way, until a better way comes along.
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline ips

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Re: working harness
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2017, 01:08:58 PM »
Sticking my oar in here rather cheekily as I don't have a working dog and have never used a slip lead. But just wanted to say that SOMETIMES there is a better way of doing things, even if the current way is almost perfect, and looking to find an alternative is always an interesting pursuit. History is full of people doing things the best way, until a better way comes along.

Exactly my point LG but rather more eloquently than my attempt. Slip lead, in fact lead and collar must go back thousands of years. We now have some excellent harnesses available not to stop pulling per se but for the comfort of dog and owner. The problem is that nobody has designed one suitable for a beating line and or between drives. I can picture exactly what I think would work but cannot find it. Maybe I have a dragons den moment 😁
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline ips

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Re: working harness
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2017, 01:13:19 PM »
This is the closest thing I have come across that "might" work

However ideally it would be thinner (so it is small in your pocket or around your neck) and simpler similar to the wydwl concept and the lead part needs to be part of it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B002SZ66YO/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1


Ps
I bet you could put this on pretty much as quick as a slip. Once adjusted its one buckle, job done 👍

Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline Londongirl

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Re: working harness
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2017, 01:21:33 PM »
Can I suggest you get in touch with Meg Heath -https://megheathdogleads.co.uk? She designs and makes leads and harnesses of the best quality and might be interested in designing something with you as a prototype.
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: working harness
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2017, 01:36:46 PM »
Sticking my oar in here rather cheekily as I don't have a working dog and have never used a slip lead. But just wanted to say that SOMETIMES there is a better way of doing things, even if the current way is almost perfect, and looking to find an alternative is always an interesting pursuit. History is full of people doing things the best way, until a better way comes along.

Exactly my point LG but rather more eloquently than my attempt. Slip lead, in fact lead and collar must go back thousands of years. We now have some excellent harnesses available not to stop pulling per se but for the comfort of dog and owner. The problem is that nobody has designed one suitable for a beating line and or between drives. I can picture exactly what I think would work but cannot find it. Maybe I have a dragons den moment 😁

getting a bit lost here... why would you need a harness if your dog has been taught not to pull?  Because then the slip lead wouldn't cause any discomfort, and is cheap and simple and available.
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline ips

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Re: working harness
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2017, 01:53:27 PM »
Can I suggest you get in touch with Meg Heath -https://megheathdogleads.co.uk? She designs and makes leads and harnesses of the best quality and might be interested in designing something with you as a prototype.

Thanks, that may be very interesting.
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline ips

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Re: working harness
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2017, 01:58:20 PM »
Sticking my oar in here rather cheekily as I don't have a working dog and have never used a slip lead. But just wanted to say that SOMETIMES there is a better way of doing things, even if the current way is almost perfect, and looking to find an alternative is always an interesting pursuit. History is full of people doing things the best way, until a better way comes along.

Exactly my point LG but rather more eloquently than my attempt. Slip lead, in fact lead and collar must go back thousands of years. We now have some excellent harnesses available not to stop pulling per se but for the comfort of dog and owner. The problem is that nobody has designed one suitable for a beating line and or between drives. I can picture exactly what I think would work but cannot find it. Maybe I have a dragons den moment 😁

getting a bit lost here... why would you need a harness if your dog has been taught not to pull?  Because then the slip lead wouldn't cause any discomfort, and is cheap and simple and available.

Sorry probably my fault for not explaining properly.
Lead training coming on very well BUT unless I can proof it on birds then i expect another season of being pulled around the beating line during those enforced lead moments, obviously during those times I cannot spend time training loose lead and I don't like the pressure she puts on her neck with a slip. Plus I just don't like things on her neck it feels wrong to me, she never ever wears a collar on its own. Plus as LG so eloquently put it I am looking into a more modern alternative.
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: working harness
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2017, 02:27:21 PM »
Sorry probably my fault for not explaining properly.
Lead training coming on very well BUT unless I can proof it on birds then i expect another season of being pulled around the beating line during those enforced lead moments, obviously during those times I cannot spend time training loose lead and I don't like the pressure she puts on her neck with a slip. Plus I just don't like things on her neck it feels wrong to me, she never ever wears a collar on its own. Plus as LG so eloquently put it I am looking into a more modern alternative.
Not meaning to sound argumentative, but if you aren't able to enforce your loose lead training during drives/on the shoot then you're very unlikely to succeed with it in this context.  Dogs are clever creatures and despite some suggesting to the contrary - they are able to work out different behaviours are acceptable in different contexts.  If you behave differently on the shoot and put a harness on her so pulling is less uncomfortable for her and so allow her to pull, she will just learn that pulling when beating/between drives is acceptable, but pulling on normal walks/while dogging in isn't.  You'd either need to be harsher with her, or be prepared to continue your loose lead training while actually working her.  Back to: if you need a harness on the shoot (or anywhere else), then you've sort of already given up on having a proofed reliable heel.
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline vixen

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Re: working harness
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2017, 03:02:28 PM »

  Dogs are clever creatures and despite some suggesting to the contrary - they are able to work out different behaviours are acceptable in different contexts. 

Totally agree with this.  My two girls never pull me when walking on a lead, as I don't allow it.  They have learnt that if they pull me, we simply don't go anywhere  ;)  When they were younger and tried to pull, I just stood rigid until they stopped.  However, if someone else walks them, they soon realize that I am not at the end of the lead and will take advantage by pulling  :005:
I also don't allow my dogs on the sofa so they don't attempt to get on when I am in the room.  However, my youngest daughter likes cuddling up to them and they will craftily get up when I am not at home  :005:
Max (GSP)  always in my heart

Offline ips

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Re: working harness
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2017, 03:04:15 PM »
Sorry probably my fault for not explaining properly.
Lead training coming on very well BUT unless I can proof it on birds then i expect another season of being pulled around the beating line during those enforced lead moments, obviously during those times I cannot spend time training loose lead and I don't like the pressure she puts on her neck with a slip. Plus I just don't like things on her neck it feels wrong to me, she never ever wears a collar on its own. Plus as LG so eloquently put it I am looking into a more modern alternative.
Not meaning to sound argumentative, but if you aren't able to enforce your loose lead training during drives/on the shoot then you're very unlikely to succeed with it in this context.  Dogs are clever creatures and despite some suggesting to the contrary - they are able to work out different behaviours are acceptable in different contexts.  If you behave differently on the shoot and put a harness on her so pulling is less uncomfortable for her and so allow her to pull, she will just learn that pulling when beating/between drives is acceptable, but pulling on normal walks/while dogging in isn't.  You'd either need to be harsher with her, or be prepared to continue your loose lead training while actually working her.  Back to: if you need a harness on the shoot (or anywhere else), then you've sort of already given up on having a proofed reliable heel.

Um, yes I see your point 👍
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline ips

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Re: working harness
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2017, 03:06:08 PM »

  Dogs are clever creatures and despite some suggesting to the contrary - they are able to work out different behaviours are acceptable in different contexts. 

Totally agree with this.  My two girls never pull me when walking on a lead, as I don't allow it.  They have learnt that if they pull me, we simply don't go anywhere  ;)  When they were younger and tried to pull, I just stood rigid until they stopped.  However, if someone else walks them, they soon realize that I am not at the end of the lead and will take advantage by pulling  :005:
I also don't allow my dogs on the sofa so they don't attempt to get on when I am in the room.  However, my youngest daughter likes cuddling up to them and they will craftily get up when I am not at home  :005:

WHAT, you mean doggie isn't sposed to go on me sofa 😁
Oh bother....too late now 😁
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline Londongirl

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Re: working harness
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2017, 03:09:38 PM »
Are these examples of the dog 'working out' that one behaviour is not allowed with a certain person / in a certain circumstance, or is it in fact example of the dog have sets of rules that are mutually exclusive, depending on the combination of circumstances? The dog pairs a person and a situation and knows what behaviour is expected. It's not that the dog is thinking "X isn't here so I can be cheeky and get on the sofa' but rather 'Y is here therefore sofa time is acceptable'.

Projecting human reactions like 'taking advantage' and 'sneaking' may not be the best way of understanding what's going on in the dog's head.
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline ips

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Re: working harness
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2017, 03:26:20 PM »
Are these examples of the dog 'working out' that one behaviour is not allowed with a certain person / in a certain circumstance, or is it in fact example of the dog have sets of rules that are mutually exclusive, depending on the combination of circumstances? The dog pairs a person and a situation and knows what behaviour is expected. It's not that the dog is thinking "X isn't here so I can be cheeky and get on the sofa' but rather 'Y is here therefore sofa time is acceptable'.

Projecting human reactions like 'taking advantage' and 'sneaking' may not be the best way of understanding what's going on in the dog's head.

Interesting observation.
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline vixen

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Re: working harness
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2017, 03:40:41 PM »
Yes, my girls have worked out what I consider acceptable behaviour as they do get off the sofa pretty sharpish when I get home and find them there  :005: :005:
Sometimes its difficult to stop 'projecting human reactions' on to them as they are such a close part of my family  ;)
Max (GSP)  always in my heart

Offline TheAdventuresofBarnaby

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Re: working harness
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2017, 03:41:21 PM »
Are these examples of the dog 'working out' that one behaviour is not allowed with a certain person / in a certain circumstance, or is it in fact example of the dog have sets of rules that are mutually exclusive, depending on the combination of circumstances? The dog pairs a person and a situation and knows what behaviour is expected. It's not that the dog is thinking "X isn't here so I can be cheeky and get on the sofa' but rather 'Y is here therefore sofa time is acceptable'.

Projecting human reactions like 'taking advantage' and 'sneaking' may not be the best way of understanding what's going on in the dog's head.

I agree with you Londongirl.  Our old girl Betty definitely followed contextual rules. 

Example: Not allowed on sofa at the apartment EVER.  OK to go on sofa at house if only I were there with her.  BUT not allowed on couch at house if Sarka was home.

And it wasn't a matter of it being a different couch as the couch from the apartment was moved to the house and Betty applied the same contextual rules.