Author Topic: At our wits end  (Read 2639 times)

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Offline thedurbs

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At our wits end
« on: January 16, 2015, 08:19:51 PM »
Hello.  This is my second post here.  I first posted about our puppy Jasper about three weeks after we had him.   He is now 18 weeks old and has turned our lives upside down.  We all adore him and he really is lovely BUT he is still biting and toilet training is going backwards instead of forward.  He just is not getting that the garden is the toilet and not just anywhere in the house.  It is difficult because of the weather but I just cannot see how we can overcome this.  Is it too late for us?  Is he too late to learn?  I hasten to add we had a lovely Cavie for 15 years who was really easy to train and we never had a problem with biting.  Are boys harder to train?  Any suggestions would really be appreciated. Please :(

Offline Jan D

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Re: At our wits end
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2015, 10:13:39 PM »
When he goes into the garden to toilet do you go with him and wait until he has performed and then reward him?

The biting will eventually stop but it does sometimes take a while - one of the joys of puppyhood I'm afraid.

Someone will be along soon with some advice I am sure but don't give up - it can be frustrating but you WILL get there - we all go through trials and tribulations with pups and live to tell the tale. You will find many,many posts on this site expressing the same frustrations that you are going through - might be worth having a look?

Good luck  ;)
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Offline elaine.e

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Re: At our wits end
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2015, 10:35:21 PM »
Some puppies take longer than others to get the hang of toilet training, so don't worry, it's not too late and he'll get there eventually. I think winter puppies often take longer than summer puppies simply because the bad weather and dark evenings and mornings make going outside less attractive to puppies and owners :D

Go back to basics. Take him outside every time he wakes up, after eating or drinking or playing, and in between times watch him like a hawk for signs such as sniffing and circling. If he hasn't had a pee or poo after several minutes outside, take him back in and stay with him and watch him if that's the time when he's most likely to go. At the first sign that it's imminent take him straight back out again. Praise him when he gets it right.

When he pees or poops in the house don't tell him off, not even a sigh of frustration. If you tell him off for peeing in front of you in the house he'll be wary about peeing in front of you in the garden. Result, a confused puppy who may think he should only pee when people aren't around or in hidden places like behind the sofa.

Use either a shop bought pet stain and odour remover, or a solution of biological laundry liquid or powder to clean up. The enzymes will remove the smell of pee whereas ammonia based cleaners and bleach smell like pee to him and will encourage him to use the same place again.

At 18 weeks he's probably still teething and may be grumpy and bitey. If he doesn't have lots of sleep and is on the go a lot he may also be overtired, which will also make him more likely to nip. I don't know what you've tried so far, but if giving him a large toy or a chew when he goes to bite isn't working, you could try walking out of the room without saying a word and leaving him for a minute.

You could also try quietly praising him and rewarding him when he's being nice and quiet. Not enough to get him over excited, but a gentle smooth and word of praise so he knows that being relaxed and quiet brings rewards.

Hope this gives you some useful ideas :D

Offline JeffD

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Re: At our wits end
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2015, 11:52:55 PM »
Lots of pups take longer than 18 weeks to be house trained nothing unusual I am afraid, it will come.

The biting can take a while longer but it will stop I promise I had the worst biter in the world, I am an experienced dog owner with 12 pups under my belt but nothing prepared me for Teal. I tried every trick in the book, nothing really worked other than letting her grow out of it although she still likes to have a munch on my feet and hands at two and half years this is her favourite indoor game, She has great bite inhibition now and never hurts me. 

Tiredness as Elaine has said will make it much worse.

In a years time you will be on the sofa with a cocker keeping your lap warm and smile  when you read posts from folks going through what you are going through right now.
Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly

Online Mudmagnets

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Re: At our wits end
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2015, 12:09:27 PM »
Agree 18 weeks is still very young - you will have to be a bit more patient yet a while - copious amounts of wine and chocolate are allowed (for hoomans) at this time
Remembering Smudge 23/11/2006 - 3/8/2013, and Branston 30/8/14 - 28/10/22 both now at the Bridge.

Offline Koslg

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Re: At our wits end
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2015, 06:16:18 PM »
Hi. At times we made Hukbug stop and go n-nites. We would sit on the sofa and cuddle him. Or tell him n-nites then put him back if he moved. We made him always have a nap after lunch/meals. At 4 he still does!

Offline Gertie

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Re: At our wits end
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2015, 09:22:31 PM »
At this age, our puppy was awake 2 hours then slept 2 hours and slept from 10pm til 6 am.
We used to put her in her crate for her sleep and at 8 months still do, stops her getting cranky and grumpy.... Just like her owner who also can't do without sleep! It will improve, hang in there :-)

Offline KeresleyKate

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Re: At our wits end
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2015, 03:55:07 PM »
Hi. As the others have said 18 weeks is still young.  Some cockers do seem to take a while to pick things up but they do get there eventually.  Arvy took much longer than our previous springer to learn and I thought he might never.  Taking him out regularly and rewarding him with a premium small treat for going outside helps, although Arvy would sometimes do a pretend wee to get a treat :005: Remember its cold out there for a little puppy so they need encouragement. Also Arvy would toilet in the house sometimes because he wouldn't stay outside if he thought it was time for his meal or something nice so I had to be quite firm that he didn't get fed until he'd been.

 I recommend time out for biting it worked really well for Arvy (at 18 weeks I was beginning to hate him as I couldn't touch him with being bitten). Whenever he bit i either left the room or put him in the kitchen for 2 minutes - not talking, strictly neutral and then let him back in, repeat as necessary. Same goes for furniture chewing or other attention getting trouble. A training line helps with this. Enough sleep is essential too. Also keep your temper as if you get angry the situation gets worse.

He's lovely now but I still do time out sometimes if he is bothering the cat as he usually bothers her to stop he coming near me, one time out and he remembers I am not solely his.

Good luck and do persist, you will have a lovely cuddle pet eventually.
Kate

Offline LurcherGirl

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Re: At our wits end
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2015, 01:51:53 AM »
Just wondering whether you are doing any puppy classes with him? What you are describing is quite normal, and sometimes it helps to meet with other puppy owners regularly that have the same problem, just so you realise that your puppy is doing just fine.  ;)

House training is a matter of consistency as others have pointed out. Some puppies learn quicker than others, so just keep going.

Re biting: teaching bite inhibition is very important. Others describe how to do it. First you need to soften the bite, once he bites gently, then you can stop it. Ian Dunbar has written a good article called "The bite stops here" describing this. You'll find it if you google for it. Also don't forget that your puppy's new teeth are breaking through and that makes them more bity too. Playing with plenty of other dogs can also help the biting a bit as they learn from them to control themselves. Also giving them plenty to chew that they can bite (e.g. stuffed kongs, chew toys, carrots etc.) will help. And lastly don't forget to make sure that he gets enough rest... tired puppies are often very bitey and kranky puppies.
Vera Marney
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www.wtdt.co.uk and www.wtdt-eastanglia.co.uk

Offline Rolo12

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Re: At our wits end
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2015, 08:35:37 AM »
i agree that it is much harder in the winter. We got Rolo in June so we left the door open alot of the time but he did pick it up very quickly. The crate was also invaluable for toilet training purposes. He would not want to wet his bed so it taught him to hold it in overnight pretty much from day one.
I remember the biting stage being very frustrating and it felt like it went on forever, just keep going. It will be worth it in the end!!
Caz :)


Offline thedurbs

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Re: At our wits end
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2015, 06:03:31 PM »
Hi everyone and thank you so much for all your replies.  The toilet training really is hit and miss with Jasper.  I would say it is 50/50.  At the puppy classes we were told that by his age he should be completely toilet trained, so I really feel like we are failing. It Is difficult in the winter and our we had our Cavie in the winter but she seemed to learn quicker than Jasper. On the plus side he does hold on all night and he has never got us up during the night to be let out. 
With regards to the biting he really does go crazy with the children.  They are 14 so not tiny but he does still hurt them!  I get in between them and he does stop but he has put multiple holes in clothing and ankles!  I know he will grow out of it but it can be really frustrating at times.
Jasper is the most loving and adorable puppy.  He really is so affectionate and most of the time a complete joy to have.  We all love him to bits and he has brought a lot of love into the house.  I have been told that I am his 'favourite' and he does follow me everywhere!    We are on the waiting list for training which should start in 7 weeks time.  I feel that is a bit too far off but we don't have a choice.  Seems a lot of people in the area have got puppies. 
Thank you again everyone for your replies and advice.  Hopefully my next post will be a bit more positive! :)

Online Mudmagnets

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Re: At our wits end
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2015, 06:15:00 PM »
The toilet training really is hit and miss with Jasper.  I would say it is 50/50.  At the puppy classes we were told that by his age he should be completely toilet trained, so I really feel like we are failing.

This is not necessarily true, puppies can catch on in weeks...or can take a lot longer,and even those for whom it has 'clicked' early they still can have setbacks. Putting  undue pressure on puppy owners is not helpful, as you know yourself it can sap your confidence.  Minstrel took a lot longer than 20weeks , but on the other hand Branston seems to have picked it up fairly quickly - but we still have the odd accident.

Just think of the waiting as a bonus - Jasper will be that much older when you start training classes, so hopefully will be able to 'hold on' that much longer  ;)
Remembering Smudge 23/11/2006 - 3/8/2013, and Branston 30/8/14 - 28/10/22 both now at the Bridge.

Offline LurcherGirl

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Re: At our wits end
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2015, 07:11:13 PM »
I would agree that at 18 weeks old, it sure isn't worth worrying about lack of house training yet. Some pups are quick, others take months... 18 weeks old is still very young.
Vera Marney
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Offline hblower

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Re: At our wits end
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2015, 07:21:15 PM »
i know it sounds really silly but have you tried yelping when he bites you like a pup would? sometimes the noise is enough and also if he does it then stop what they are doing ie; if playing stop the play and say no quite firmly.  when he stops then you can say good no.  also I was taught at puppy classes to put a treat in your hand and curl your hand up like a fist with thumb on top.  let him sniff it and play etc and he will try and nip and scrap but as soon as he licks your hand open your hand and give him the treat.  Orin picked this up REALLY quickly and still does it now.

Offline phoenix

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Re: At our wits end
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2015, 10:47:57 AM »
Biting is natural in puppy play, and I completely agree about the yelp, that's how they learn the limits with their own kind. If we shout at them or sound fierce they don't understand.  I have always found that dogs respond to  higher voice than a growly male voice when they are young. Even when  meeting a strange adult dog off lead on, I notice how they immediately relax their posture if I talk in a silly friendly voice to them.
With toilet training, the weather doesn't help, and do you have puppy pads or newspaper in a particular place where you can plonk him regularly, and reward him with a tree for results. Bt hen when the weather is right , move the paper outside the door , then eventually they won't need it.  It can take till six months , so don't worry.
 Most dogs can be trained  to wee or poo on command if you persist. Just stand outside saying the appropriate word in an encouraging tone till they do it, then treat them.
RIP Marti  the EPI springer age 12,  and beloved black cocker Bobby, 8 yrs old, too soon, from PLN.
Now owned by TInker, tiny hairy grey poodle/terrier rescue from Greece and Jack, local rescue,   scruffy ginger terrier mutt.