CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: *Jay* on July 14, 2007, 09:28:28 PM
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I took the dogs over to the park for their evening run and when we were getting ready to leave Disney (who was a dying swan earlier ::)) and Aspen had a huge fight. They occasionally have a little squabble every few weeks or so (always at this park and always at the end once their leads have been put on) but it tends to be more noise than anything. This time though they were both covered in blood. Disneys mouth and ear were bleeding and Aspen had blood on his head, his ear was covered as was his front leg. I've got them home and cleaned them up and Disney has wounds on his ear, his foot, his cheek and the corner of his mouth. Aspen can't weight bear on his front leg, has wounds on his foot, his head and his ear :'( :'( They are so so close normally and they are both snuggled up together now as if nothing has happened while I'm still in utter shock over it. I don't know if its anything to do with Aspens age (he is 17 months and it started a couple of months ago) but we will be avoiding that park for a while i think. :'(
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Oh no Gill, here's hoping it was just a 'blip'. Hope everything settles back down from now on.
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OMG Gill what a shock for you. :o Do you think they are unsettled by having a new addition to the family? Hope they settle down and don't give you any more frights >:(
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You poor thing must have been horrible for you. Fingers crossed it's a one off. ;)
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Hope it's a one off too and that they both recover from their war wounds quickly. :o
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Poor pups, I hope they sort out their little dispute quickly - and as the others say.. I hope it's a one off. :blink:
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Sorry to hear that. I hope they're both feeling better soon and it doesn't happen again.
My 2 had a huge fight today too >:D
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I bet you did get a fright, hope they are both ok :luv:
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I hope they both recover quickly and it doesn't happen again. :luv:
Do you walk you dogs in two lots? If so, perhaps you could take Disney and Aspen in seperate groups if they often have a bit of a niggle with each other after a walk. :-\
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:-*
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bloomin eck Gill :o I think I'd avoid that park too, they could be picking up a scent from something and its winding them up somehow :-\
My guys bark more at people when they are on the lead or in the car :huh: they come across as nutters somedays ph34r but they dont go for each other
I hope they're ok and you ;)
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I hope they're both ok Gill, that must have been a really nasty shock for you :-\
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So sorry to hear about this Gill! It's always so upsetting to see two dogs you love really having a go at each other.
I'm no specialist in the field of animal behaviour but I would guess that Aspen could be challenging Disney and that the whole incident was triggered by a scent, as previously suggested. I've had problems with Byron pouncing on Mac when I've had to put them on lead after/during a walk. And each time I had no idea what provoked Byron's reaction. Maybe it has something to do with the confinement of the lead (plus of course what's happening around them).
A few months ago I got myself a copy of Patricia McConnell's "Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi-dog Household" and have often referred to it. She advises against letting your dogs work things out themselves through fighting, that you have to let them know that fighting is unacceptable. I'm sure there are people who would disagree with this approach but it appeals to me and it's what I'm going to try and follow if ever any serious problems develop with Byron and Mac. Time will tell!
Anyway I hope this was just a "one off" with your two and that there were no serious injuries. :D
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Sorry to hear that Gill. I would have wet myself with fright I think ph34r Hope order is restored now :blink:
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Sounds like redirected aggression to me.
the dogs may be frustrated having to go back on lead, and this frustration could be taken out on each other. Maybe as you say one dog was feeling off colour and this could also be a factor.
Dogs can tell when another member of the pack is not at full strength.
I think you are right to avoid this context of the park for now.
hopefully it will be a one off.
mark
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Sorry to hear hope they are OK like you say its you that ends up feeling shaken after and they just carry on as though nothing
happened. I agree with the letting them know that fighting is bad if there seems to be no reason for fight.
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A few months ago I got myself a copy of Patricia McConnell's "Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi-dog Household" and have often referred to it. She advises against letting your dogs work things out themselves through fighting, that you have to let them know that fighting is unacceptable. I'm sure there are people who would disagree with this approach but it appeals to me and it's what I'm going to try and follow if ever any serious problems develop with Byron and Mac.
I will definitely get myself a copy of that book. I have to admit that I thought they should be left to work things out and only step in if you feel one is going to get injured, much in the same way you would with an adult telling a pup off. I did leave them to get on with it but when I saw the blood I waded in to split them up. If it happens again, I might try distracting them so it doesn't get to that stage. We went to another park today and all 3 times, there were no issues at all. They are now cuddled up together in bed as if nothing had ever happened :luv: Hope it stays that way ;)
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Gill - I hope it stays that way too ;)
We went to another park today and all 3 times, there were no issues at all. They are now cuddled up together in bed as if nothing had ever happened :luv: Hope it stays that way ;)
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aw poor you Gill :'(
Fingers crossed they have cleared the air now ;)
I remember a few weeks back now, Billy's behaviourist, who has five dogs , had a dog fight incident. She had been in the house & heard a commotion in the garden, when she went out to see what was going on two of her dogs were fighting, one of them had the other by it's shoulder & was dragging it up & down the garden :o She had to break it up. She said she honestly thought the one being dragged was going to be very seriously injured. Thankfully he was absolutely fine . She'd had these dogs for years and they had always been best buddies, this was right out of the blue.
They are fine now but she said she had no idea what caused it, maybe there had been something going on between them that she had not noticed. It was just one of those things and thankfully hasn't happened since.
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I bet you were shaken up!
My two have done this in the past but mainly before they were 1. They've not really hurt themselves but I know that I couldn't stop shaking and my heart was pounding like mad.
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Been there too, very scary when they fight :'(. Mine were all noise until very recently but then it got serious and we had blood and wounds and a trip to the vets. Poor Jasmine was so traumatised she would shake uncontrollably when she saw daisy so she had to go to my mums ( where we go a lot) and we tried to bring her back home a few times but she just could not cope with Daisy and her behaviour so we found her a lovely retired lady to live with.
But what I really want to know is if two dogs are fighting seriously how do you separate them without getting bitten. I used a garden chair to try and negotiate between them as a barrier and it worked but without that what do you do? Jasmine responded when I shouted leave and she was the victim but Daisy just ignored me totally >:D. I have heard water can suprise them but would appreciate some feedback as to what others have done? Always good to be mentally prepared.
Amanda x
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Well, we had another incident this morning but this time it resulted in Aspen needing veterinary treatment :'( I have no idea what caused it as we were just walking along the street when Disney started growling at Aspen. I tried to jolly him along and distract him but he just launched himself at Aspen and the pair just let rip at each other (great wake up call for the people living in said street ph34r). Finally managed to split them up with blood dripping from the pair of them :'( I have to phone the vets back tomorrow to speak to the girl who runs the behaviour clinic to see if castration would help. I'll be gutted if that has to happen but its so horrid to see two dogs who normally get on so well fighting like that :'(
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aw no Gill I'm so sorry :'( :'( That must have really shook you up too
Hope they have some good advice for you tomorrow.
Enjoy the rest of the day, have a nice bath & a big bar of galaxy :-*
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So sorry to hear this Gill - I hope the behaviourist can help you get to the bottom of the problem :'(
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You must have got the shock of your life, Gill. On the odd occasion (usually bone stealing induced ::)) when Bramble has gone for Poppy, my heart is in my mouth and I can almost feel my blood pressure rise.
I hope you can get to the bottom of this.
sending big hugs to you and healing thoughts to Aspen. xx
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Gill I'm sorry they have done it again, you must have been so shocked. I hope the vets can help you but if they do advise castration, I think I would think about it. Suppose lowering the testosterone levels might help.
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Awww, Gill, I'm sorry. I hope you manage to sort it out, Ham and Indie have the odd spat, and neither of them are castrated either. Best of luck
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I'm so sorry to hear this Gill - its so horrid isn't it? My two scrap big time every now and again, with it always being Dyl ending up in the vets for a couple of stitches or staples.
Dont' rush a decision about castration - Clive is neutered and Dyl isn't and they still row, normally over a toy on walks. Do you think its to do with Aspen's age? Is he pushing his luck at all?
Best of luck with sorting it out
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Dont' rush a decision about castration - Clive is neutered and Dyl isn't and they still row, normally over a toy on walks. Do you think its to do with Aspen's age? Is he pushing his luck at all?
Thats the thing - Aspen really isn't pushing his luck. He is so submissive to him right up until Disney goes for him then he fights back. He always comes off worse. His mouth is so swollen that he can't eat :'( Obviosuly if neutering is the way to go, then only one of them will be done but I'll be very annoyed if it has to be Aspen cos he's done nothing wrong - Disney deserves it >:( ph34r But no, I certainly won't rush into it ;)
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aw Gill I really feel for you , you can tell from your post that you are really upset :'(
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Has it been warm today, Gill ? It has here, and there was more argy-bargy than normal at Agility tonight; the weather/heat seems to affect some dogs quite badly ph34r
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No, been freezing :lol:
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I had 4 huge Male Labs fighting tonight at the kennels, its an awful thing to see but Cazzie the referee stepped in and took control :police: , some dogs just have a thing for others as the big male dog that started it kept trying to have another go, it was poor Dram he picked on to start with then :'( another 2 joined in >:( . The situation soon calmed down thank goodness :angel:
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Oh I am sorrry for you Gill .I know how upset I felt when mine had a scrap and it was nowhere near as bad as yours :'( I really hope you can get some help and things sort themselves out ..sending you lots of luv and hugs x
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OH Gill, I've only just seen this.. so sorry for you and your boys. It sounds so upsetting, really hope things start to calm down soon.
Hannah xxx
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I missed your original post Gill, so I'd no idea they'd had their first fight. ph34r
I'm really sorry, I know I'd hate it if mine faught. Hopefully the behaviourist will have some ideas that will help.
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Aww Gill im really sorry to hear that they have had a fight, hope they are both ok.
I know exactly how you feel, a lab started a fight with Scoobie not so long ago and Scoobie fought back as well, but this was a massive lab and it got Scoobs by the neck and he sunk his teeth in. Scoobs had blood everywhere and i was in tears as well.
So sorry to hear about Disney and Aspen
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so sorry that things have gone like this. Would be a real pity if you had to rehome one of them but sadly sometimes thats the only answer, hope having the chop helps the situation.
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I've only just read this thread, how awful for you Gill. I'm so sorry that they are not getting on. I wonder what it is that's causing it - maybe since the first big scrap when they were onlead they are now alot more nervous of each other on the lead? I know my two really pick up on each other so much and it's more pronounced onlead.
My two rarely have a cross word but last week Zorro really went for Bella because she was moving around (actually trying to leave the room) and he had a scrap of hide chew - it's the first time they've had anything like a proper scrap, he just hurled himself at her (he's a year old but neutered) and that was bad enough (no blood, just two very upset dogs for a while).
I really hope you can get to the bottom of whatever it is - it must be so horrible for you at the moment. :'(
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Sorry to hear this.
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Hi Gill
How is Aspen today? Have you spoken to the behaviourist?
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Sorry to hear this Gill.
I tried to jolly him along and distract him but he just launched himself at Aspen and the pair just let rip at each other (great wake up call for the people living in said street ph34r).
I believe that if you're going to try and distract them it's got to be with a sharp, loud noise, something that's going to really startle them.
I've got to the point where I can literally feel the aggression coming on and I try and nip it in the bud by bascically letting Byron know that there are limits and I won't tolerate any extreme aggression. It seems to be working - touch wood!
What advice has the behaviourist given you?
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Hi What an awfull time you have been experiencing. I do hope things have calmed down and Aspen has recovered ok.
Claire
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how are the boys getting on gill???
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Sorry for not updating sooner but still havent managed to get hold of the behaviourist. There have been a few growly incidents towarsd each other but it hasn't come to anything. Aspen is fine and his wound is healing well. They are curled up together on the sofa right now >:D
Edited to add that they have had another one tonight. They were at it for a few minutes before I managed to split them up and Disney was bleeeding from his mouth :'( Vegas had pinned Aspen to the ground for trying to nick his precious ball and Aspen squealed then Disney just ran in and set about him. If I can't get hold of this lady on Monday, I am going to have to try someone else
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Oh no not again, I'm so sorry. I really hope you can get this sorted before it becomes too frequent. :-\
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Oh Gill I'm so sorry. :'(
If only we knew why. I'll keep my fingers crossed for a peaceful weekend for you and hopefully you can track down this lady on Monday.
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I have a friend that has several different breeds all male and all different ages (collies, deerhound, brittanys) when the pups got to an age where they start to flex their muscles alot of fights happened as it upsets the balance. But she also had a problem when her eldest dog who would usually sort out the fights and keep the peace got ill and the two younger dogs were fighting all the time, it got worse when her older dog died. I know people don't believe in a pack mentality but sometimes it does make a little sense.
I know Sue sorted out her dogs problems with alot of time patience and training. I can ask if you can pm her if you like?? She's a lovely person and might be able to offer you a little support?
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I can ask if you can pm her if you like?? She's a lovely person and might be able to offer you a little support?
That would be great - I would really appreciate it
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can you pm me your email address with a little info I can forward to Sue.
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when the pups got to an age where they start to flex their muscles alot of fights happened as it upsets the balance.
I know Sue sorted out her dogs problems with alot of time patience and training. I can ask if you can pm her if you like?? She's a lovely person and might be able to offer you a little support?
What age is that roughly :huh: ph34r
Hope your friend can help Gill ;)
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AW Gill I'm so sorry :'(
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when the pups got to an age where they start to flex their muscles alot of fights happened as it upsets the balance.
What age is that roughly :huh: ph34r
I'm basing this on what I've read and info from two vets. ;)
There are supposedly two phases in a pup's life where he may tend towards serious aggression when dealing with another dog. The first one is anywhere from 6-9 months when he first starts to mature and the second is around 18 months when his testosterone levels will be at their highest.
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when the pups got to an age where they start to flex their muscles alot of fights happened as it upsets the balance.
What age is that roughly :huh: ph34r
I'm basing this on what I've read and info from two vets. ;)
There are supposedly two phases in a pup's life where he may tend towards serious aggression when dealing with another dog. The first one is anywhere from 6-9 months when he first starts to mature and the second is around 18 months when his testosterone levels will be at their highest.
Blimey sounds like I could hav my work cut out then ;) as Fern is 18 months and Braan has just come into the equation and is now 14 weeks :shades:
Thanks for the info ;)
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Blimey sounds like I could hav my work cut out then ;) as Fern is 18 months and Braan has just come into the equation and is now 14 weeks :shades:
Thanks for the info ;)
Don't worry! It all depends on the individual dog and his/her personality and anyway a female/male relationship tends to be less problematic than a male/male or female/female. May your worst fears never come to pass - 'tis far better to be aware that there could eventually be a problem and never have it happen. "Be prepared". :D
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Thanks - the way they have all (Jock included) settled together is un real - I couldn't have wished for anything better they have all been great ;)
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Hi Gill , just wondering how the boys are getting on now.
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I have just read through this thread, what a nightmare for you Gill :o
Hows things now ?
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Just thought I would update as things have not been great. Last week they had a really bad fight whivh resulted in Aspen needing veterinary treatment for a badly swollen mouth and being unable to use one of his front legs. That was last wednesady and they have had a few fights every day since. Both of them have huge chunks ripped out of their faces and Aspen has wounds on his leg and ears. They are not getting a chance to heal as they keep getting reopened with every fight. Normally they would just forgive and forget after a fight but now they can barely be in the same room as each other. I'm constantly on edge which is certainly not helping them. I've spoken to a few behaviourists and they have all said the same thing - neuter Aspen. Its got to the stage where I have to try it because the only other option is rehome one of them which would absolutely kill me but we can't go on as we are :'(xsd
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I'm so sorry to hear this Gill, it cannot be easy for you. :bigarmhug:
If only we could sit them down and talk things through. :-\
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I hope it works for you I really do, what a shame you have had to go through all of this, good luck :luv:
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Oh Gill. What a shame.
I do hope the op does the trick.
Any idea when you will have it done?
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really feel for you Gill, it must be terrible to see them literally at each others throats :'(
Have everything crossed that the neutering will do the trick.
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So sorry to hear this Gill - I must be really stressful. >:( Hope the snip does the trick ;)
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Really really hope it works for you.. keeping everything crossed.
Thinking of you lots :-*
Hannah xx
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Oh Gill - I really hope things work out for you once Aspen has had the op
xxxx
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I had hoped that things had started to settle down a bit for you. Having been in that perminant stage of "on edge" when we had Millie, I understand how you must be feeling, and it really isn't nice.
I hope the neutering works out for the boys - it really does sound like there is no other option.
Sending you big hugs ((( )))
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Hope things work out Gill ;)
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I hope the op does the trick.
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Do hope this works. Mine have the odd spat but so far it's just been a lot of noise but no physical damage. It must be so upsetting when this happens.
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Aww Gill I am so sorry to read this :'( ..it must be breaking your heart (((hug)) I really hope the neutering helps..
Thinking of you all xxxxx
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I'm sorry to hear what you are going through. I also hope the op makes a big difference for them and for you. :)
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Aww GillI know its not what you want to do but I really hope it puts an end to all this for you :'( :-*
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Any idea when you will have it done?
He's booked in for Monday - the day after his 2nd birthday. What a great present ::)
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Any idea when you will have it done?
He's booked in for Monday - the day after his 2nd birthday. What a great present ::)
Sounds like the best thing you can do Gill. If it does the trick then a more harmonious home will be better for you all! How long do they say it will take to have an effect - not sure if it takes a while for the hormones to leave the body?? :huh:
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Really sorry. It's a rotten situation to be in for all of you. :'( :'( It worked for my old retriever who was also quite a lot happier afterwards. Fingers crossed for your poor boy.
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Am so sorry Gill :'(
Don't beat yourself up about the neutering hun :-* :-*
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Gill - you have my complete sympathy. Its so horrible when they fight, especially when it causes injury. Dylan has been nursing a big lump right by his eye socket this last week after they had a huge fight on a walk :'(
You may hate the idea of neutering Aspen but for his sake, and the sake of the others, it sounds like the only option.
Will be thinking of you and Aspen on Monday :luv:
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Hi Gill,
I'm really sorry to hear that your dogs are fighting. I've been though that.
When we got Bailey (Lhasa Apso) 8 years ago, we had Freddy (Westie) who was 7 or 8 years, and by the time Bailey reached about a year they began to fight, so bad that Freddy ripped Bailey eye lid (the bottom one) and he still have a scar now, in the form of a dip in his lid. The vet said he was very very lucky, if it had been half an inch more and Bailey would have lost his eye. The vet advised on neutering one of them. I can't quite remember the reasons why we chose Bailey, but from then on, no more fights. Well, okay the occasional very-small-no-serous one a couple of times a year, but that was all. They were best buddies until Freddy passed away early this August.
Our new puppy is coming on Monday. I am praying that Bailey will be okay with him as a pup and also in the future when puppy gets to that almost adult stage. I'm praying that there won't be a repeat of the Freddy/Bailey thing. But as Bailey's neutered, I have my fingers crossed that it will make all the difference.
A few months ago I got myself a copy of Patricia McConnell's "Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi-dog Household" and have often referred to it.
I'd like to get a copy of that. Any idea where I can get it from. No luck from Amazon.
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Don't know how I missed the updates on this, but I'm so sorry to hear it's gotten worse :'( Fighting dogs are really a miserable way to live :-\ Hope the op works for them :blink:
How long do they say it will take to have an effect - not sure if it takes a while for the hormones to leave the body?? :huh:
Unfortunately it can take up to 6 months, but usually sooner
I know people don't believe in a pack mentality but sometimes it does make a little sense.
It's not that we don't believe in it amongst dogs, it's just that we don't believe in it as a training method, a la Cesar Milan ;)
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I was wondering just recently how things were going on with Disney and Aspen and was hoping that no news was good news ph34r.
I'm so sorry to hear that the situation has escalated and sincerely hope things take a turn for the better after the neutering.
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So sorry to hear this Gill :'( hope everything turns out ok :blink:
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I'm really sorry to hear things aren't improving, it must break your heart to see two dogs you love tearing each other apart. :'(
I really hope that castrating Aspen does the trick, but as already said it can take up to six months so hang on in there. On the plus side Barney's "male hormonal" behaviour like marking and humping stopped within a week of being done so lets hope its as quick with Aspen.
Don't beat yourself up about castrating him, all boys living in this house are castrated and they're all happy little bunnies. :luv:
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Don't beat yourself up about castrating him, all boys living in this house are castrated and they're all happy little bunnies. :luv:
After todays fight which resulted in Apsen being treated for shock :'( , the op can't come soon enough for me now. Its pretty much our last hope. I managed to get bitten 6 times on my thumb trying to split them up and it feels like its on the verge of falling off :lol: Off to the doctors for a tetanus tomorrrow ::)
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God Gill :o I hope you're ok and I'm really sorry that things have got so bad with the two of them. I think you're doing the only sensible thing in the circumstances though and I hope it has the desired effect sooner rather than later.
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:luv:
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God Gill :o I hope you're ok and I'm really sorry that things have got so bad with the two of them. I think you're doing the only sensible thing in the circumstances though and I hope it has the desired effect sooner rather than later.
Ditto from me too :'(
Keep strong hun :-*
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God Gill :o I hope you're ok and I'm really sorry that things have got so bad with the two of them. I think you're doing the only sensible thing in the circumstances though and I hope it has the desired effect sooner rather than later.
Ditto from me too :'(
Keep strong hun :-*
and me three :blink:
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:o I've just read through all this, how awful for you all Gill, I hope you manage to get them settled. ;)
:huh: Do you mind if I ask you though , why the behaviourists gave the advice to neuter Aspen and not Disney :huh:
I have no experience and I'm not suggesting they are wrong, but my immediate thought was that as Disney seems to be the aggressor he should be the one to be neutered. Is it to do with their ages maybe?
Jann :blink:
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Oh Gill - I just read through this from beginning to end - how awful for you :-\
Don't be worried about castration - Ben was castrated and his personality is still there big time but the 'have a go at someone' and 'humping' is reduced. He didn't have the problems with another dog in the home but it is no worse than getting a bitch 'done' (which seems to be the norm in most cases without the heartache) . In fact it is an easier op and the the recovery is remarkable ;)
I really hope this works for you and ends the fighting :luv:
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Jann, the theory is that you neuter the more submissive dog which is why poor Aspen is having it done. I think the logic behind it is that it creates a bigger gulf between the two dogs status' so there should be less inclination to fight.
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Sorry to hear all this Gill
hope it works out for the best. :luv:
Was told tonight after castration it takes a good 2 months for hormones to settle - not sure if this is true but something to look into (or you might know already )
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Thanks for that Gill I really do hope it works for you !
Good Luck Jann :luv:
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Was told tonight after castration it takes a good 2 months for hormones to settle - not sure if this is true but something to look into (or you might know already )
Our vet warned my daughter that this was not a 'quick fix' but more of a gradual improvement. This was in relation to having her very stressed rescue Border Collie done.
The deed is being done this morning. I think daughter is now more stressed than the dog!
I'm sure this will work for you.
We had a retriever who was attacked by a Labrador as a puppy and ever after decided that attack was the best form of defence and tried to go for every black Labrador he met. We had him castrated and once he had settled he was so much better...stopped the humping as well!
Hope all goes well
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Don't beat yourself up about castrating him, all boys living in this house are castrated and they're all happy little bunnies. :luv:
After todays fight which resulted in Apsen being treated for shock :'( , the op can't come soon enough for me now. Its pretty much our last hope. I managed to get bitten 6 times on my thumb trying to split them up and it feels like its on the verge of falling off :lol: Off to the doctors for a tetanus tomorrrow ::)
OMG. :o It must break your heart. :'( not to mention your poor thumb! :-\ I am really keeping everything crossed that this will make a big difference to all three of you, you must be stressed out of your head living amongst all this.
Apart from Barney, the big wuss of the family, the other two boys made miraculous recoveries after being castrated. In fact within an hour of coming home from the vets Morgan took off to run round the garden with the other three who were playing ball with OH! So the game had to stop because Morgan just wasn't having any of it going on without him joining in. ::) :luv: In my experience the boys recover so much quicker than the girls so I'm sure Aspen will start to feel back to normal within a day or so.
I'm thinking of you, you take care of yourself.....and that thumb! :-*
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Just caught up with this Gill, sorry you have been having such a dreadful time with the boys.
Hope things improve for everyone xx
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Gill
How did Aspen get on today?
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Just caught up with this thread and all I can say is (((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))
It must be awful to be living with the worry 24/7. I know how I was when Billy first came home and Alfie went for him a few times, felt like my heart was forever in my throat :(
Hope the op goes well and that things do settle down quickly for you. When Alfie was done I noticed a change in a week or two - he was very aggressive before the op - he wasn't perfect over night and still isn't but he is much more relaxed and walks away from situations that he would have dived in on previously (still guards me though :( )
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Hi Gill
I know exactly what you're going through as I went through this with Sebastian and Bart. I took Sebastian to the Vet and had the tardac injection (chemical castration) but it didn't make any difference to him at all then I had Bart done and he became really withdraw and not a the happy little dog that I was used to having around so in the end with a very heavy heart I decided to do the kindest thing for Bart and rehomed him to a lady that had just lost her dog. I still get upset about this to this day but he has a wonderful new life and not the constant fighting that he had when he was living with me.
I wish I had caught this thread earlier because I would of suggested trying the chemical castration before castration because sometimes castration doesn't do what we hope it will do.
Sebastian was castrated due to health reasons last year but it hasn't made any difference to him at all - he will still try and hump other entire dogs.
I really do hope that this is the answer for poor Aspen.
Thinking of you
Dessie xx
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Good luck Gill, hopefully neutering will have the desired impact and make life less stressful for you all.
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Hope all went well Gill, thinking of you and boys and really hope things start to improve quickly for you all now..
Big hugs :-*
Hannah xxxxx
PS. Hope your thumb made a rapid recovery too!
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I too hope the castration has the desired effect, but I'm going to stick my neck out now.
I have to agree with Dessie, sometimes finding another home is the only answer. I did it for Georgia and Otis, if I hadn't I would have had let them live a life of misery.
It absolutely broke my heart to let them go but Georgie never looked back (quite literally) from the day she went, and Otis is in his element being an only dog, I know this as I do a 50 mile round trip every 6 weeks to go and trim him.
Contrary to what some people say, I believe letting a dog(s) go is not failing or giving up, and as hard as it is, is the most selfless act you can do when things aren't going right.
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sorry Gill I dont look in 'behaviour' very much. that is awful. I've been lucky with the groovy gang, but I really feel for you. I hope the neutering sorts it ;) :-*
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Contrary to what some people say, I believe letting a dog(s) go is not failing or giving up, and as hard as it is, is the most selfless act you can do when things aren't going right.
I agree, although it has to be the most difficult thing to have to do :'(
I have a friend who has two bitches that just recently have started to fight like mad. They can't be in the same room as each other. So one stays in the bedroom whilst the other has the run of the house. Then every hour they swap. She adores them and can't bear to rehome one but i think it's going to be the only option soon.
Fingers crossed though Gill the neutering may calm things down a bit :-*
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I too hope the castration has the desired effect, but I'm going to stick my neck out now.
I have to agree with Dessie, sometimes finding another home is the only answer. I did it for Georgia and Otis, if I hadn't I would have had let them live a life of misery.
It absolutely broke my heart to let them go but Georgie never looked back (quite literally) from the day she went, and Otis is in his element being an only dog, I know this as I do a 50 mile round trip every 6 weeks to go and trim him.
Contrary to what some people say, I believe letting a dog(s) go is not failing or giving up, and as hard as it is, is the most selfless act you can do when things aren't going right.
Thanks for your reply and support Michele. I know what you went through with Otis and how much it broke your heart to let him go.
I have to say and this is my personal opinion here that we are the ones that think we can't possibly cope with letting one of our beloved dogs go to another home and that the dog will not cope without us, but in fact it is quite the opposite. I found with my situation as soon as Bart left the household was a totally different place. Sebastian was more relaxed and so was Douglas and of course I was I wasn't on tender hooks all the time waiting for the next fight to happen. I have never been round to see Bart since he left and that will be 2 years in December. I know from friends that he has settled in perfectly and is a very happy.
And as Michele has quite rightly said we have not failed or become a bad owner because our dogs take a dislike to each other ... every dog is different most of them like to have other doggie company but some which I think Bart is preferred not to share his owner with anybody.
Dessie
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I too hope the castration has the desired effect, but I'm going to stick my neck out now.
I have to agree with Dessie, sometimes finding another home is the only answer. I did it for Georgia and Otis, if I hadn't I would have had let them live a life of misery.
It absolutely broke my heart to let them go but Georgie never looked back (quite literally) from the day she went, and Otis is in his element being an only dog, I know this as I do a 50 mile round trip every 6 weeks to go and trim him.
Contrary to what some people say, I believe letting a dog(s) go is not failing or giving up, and as hard as it is, is the most selfless act you can do when things aren't going right.
Thanks for your reply and support Michele. I know what you went through with Otis and how much it broke your heart to let him go.
I have to say and this is my personal opinion here that we are the ones that think we can't possibly cope with letting one of our beloved dogs go to another home and that the dog will not cope without us, but in fact it is quite the opposite. I found with my situation as soon as Bart left the household was a totally different place. Sebastian was more relaxed and so was Douglas and of course I was I wasn't on tender hooks all the time waiting for the next fight to happen. I have never been round to see Bart since he left and that will be 2 years in December. I know from friends that he has settled in perfectly and is a very happy.
And as Michele has quite rightly said we have not failed or become a bad owner because our dogs take a dislike to each other ... every dog is different most of them like to have other doggie company but some which I think Bart is preferred not to share his owner with anybody.
Dessie
Thankyou both for having the courage not only to do that but to post your stories on here.
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I have'nt had experience of this situation ...and hope I never do :'( but I think those of you who have to face this awful situation are soooo brave to even consider re-homing your dogs. It must be a totallly heartbreaking thing to do sacrificing your love for that of your special friends happiness :'( I admire you greatly (((hug))).
Thinking of you Gill and hoping for the best x
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I have nothing to add, just that I have been thinking of you, and i keep reading this post in the hope there may be some good news soon.
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thinking of you .. :luv:
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I think you are really brave to try and work through this...dont think i would have the strength to deal with the situation as you have
it must be so upsetting and unsettling for everyone
i hope things work out :luv:
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How's it going Gill, hope the op went ok and that things have settled down for you. :003:
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I hope the op went ok Gill and Aspen isn't feeling too sore :luv:
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Op went fine thanks. He bounced out of the vets like Tigger on speed and hasn't slowed down since lol. The discharging nurse said that the pre-med didn't touch him either :005: Hes been very good and isn't bothering with his stitches so have spared him the indignity of the mikki hygeine pants for the time being.
As for the fighting, I know that it may come down to rehoming one of them but I couldn't do that without trying absolutely everything. There had been no fights since Friday evening and even then that one was just a small one. Woke up this morning and the two of them were cuddled up together on the bed - something that hasn't happened in the past two weeks. Filled me with hope and then the two of them went at it hammer and tongs ::) They have been fine again the past couple of hours and are sat next to each other - again, something that wouldn't have happened last week. So all in all, I guess things are a bit better but still slightly tense! Luckily I'm going blonde - you shouldn't be able to see the grey hairs so easily then :lol:
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Really hope that these are good signs...
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Will keep everything crossed for you.
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Really hope it all works out - I think it can take a good few weeks for the testosterone levels to drop after castration, it's bound to be a very tense time for you. Fingers crossed.... :luv:
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As for the fighting, I know that it may come down to rehoming one of them but I couldn't do that without trying absolutely everything.
Of course not!
Hopefully things are taking tiny steps in the right direction. :shades:(http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_29_107v.gif)
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As for the fighting, I know that it may come down to rehoming one of them but I couldn't do that without trying absolutely everything.
We all know that gill hun :-* :-*
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Glad the op went well Gill (((hug))) ..fingers and paws crossed here that this will resolve the situation x
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Op went fine thanks. He bounced out of the vets like Tigger on speed and hasn't slowed down since lol. The discharging nurse said that the pre-med didn't touch him either :005: Hes been very good and isn't bothering with his stitches so have spared him the indignity of the mikki hygeine pants for the time being.
As for the fighting, I know that it may come down to rehoming one of them but I couldn't do that without trying absolutely everything. There had been no fights since Friday evening and even then that one was just a small one. Woke up this morning and the two of them were cuddled up together on the bed - something that hasn't happened in the past two weeks. Filled me with hope and then the two of them went at it hammer and tongs ::) They have been fine again the past couple of hours and are sat next to each other - again, something that wouldn't have happened last week. So all in all, I guess things are a bit better but still slightly tense! Luckily I'm going blonde - you shouldn't be able to see the grey hairs so easily then :lol:
Pleased to hear that the op went well Gill. Everything crossed that this sorts out the problem for you.
Dessie
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Glad he got through the op so well. and really hoping this will sort out the problems for you.
What a nightmare!
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Glad to hear the operation went well, fingers crossed it will have the desired effect. :blink:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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I am glad to hear that he recovered from the op really well. I have my fingers firmly crossed that this does the trick and they can live together harmoniously once again.
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Hi Gill
Was just wondering how things are ?
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Hoping all OK?
On the strength of this thread, we have decided to have Louie castrated - I know Jasper gets fed up with him and although it hasn't come to fights - hope that castration will reduce the hormones and prevent issues. I guess we might never know but don't want to go through what you are if we can avoid it.
Wishing you well.
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We are now at a week without a fight. Considering they were having at least 4 a day, that is some achievement :D The main trigger point seemed to be when Disney was on his lead so he wears a baskerville muzzle when we are out and gets walked on a short lead on the opposite side to the others. Aspen is becoming more like his old self now (he became very withdrawn and miserable) and Disney is more relaxed. I'm not sure if things will ever get back to the way they were with the pair of them, but they are certainly living together happily enough with our new routine and thats good enough for me. Oh and the thumb is healing nicely :005:
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glad to hear things are more settled - long may it continue!
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yay! as Jaspersmum says - it is good to hear things are settling down a bit.... hopefully it will continue to improve even more as time goes by :blink:
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Hope it stays that way. And that your thumb heals really well!
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I'm really glad that things are getting better, Gill. Long may it continue.
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Fab news - so pleased to hear this :D
It is still early days so hopefully things will just continue to get better now ;)
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Great news Gill, I hope it lasts. :shades:
Glad your thumb is healing too. (http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys/thumb.gif)
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great news. So pleased things have improved for you.
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That's great news ;) long may it continue and i am glad that your thumb has healed as well,
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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So so pleased for you! :-*
Will keep fingers crossed it all continues as well.
Hannah xxx
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Great :D .... really pleased for you all x
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Hope things continue on the right track ;)
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Thats lovely to hear, it must make your life much more bareable. :D
I will keep my fingers crossed that it continues and improves. ;)
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This has happened to me before. Its terrible to witness. Olivia is when olivia was 2 1/2 we got another puppy. Olivia is spayed, anyway, she would all of the sudden lunge at the pup (izzy) when she walked by and bit her ear and made it bleed. Might be a dominance thing. when izzy got older they got in another fight that olivia provoked, izzy is much bigger now and she bit olivia in the nose and made her bleed. They worked it out themselves, izzy is now dominant olivia is not. Sorry your fight went further as to cause multiple injuries. they will get over it. once one gives up his or her dominance.
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Does no news mean good news Gill, I hope so. :D
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It does indeed :D
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These are for your boys
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
Fabulous news, I am so pleased :clapping:
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Me too ;) ...thats great :D
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Great news. Long may peace reign!
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Fantastic news - brilliant that the result has been so immediate! :D I thought it might take a little while for the hormones to settle down. :-\
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Ya Beauty!!!!!!