dog borstal

[Joelf]

Don't get me started about that man or this programme, just seeing the title of the thread makes me angry.

Same here - thank goD we don't have satellite TV

[Simon]

If you dislike the programme so much, maybe you should complain to the BBC? It isn't anything to do with the satellite TV operators, i.e Sky. If you pay your license fee, and you feel as strongly as I seem to think you do, then email them. Personally I can't see what the fuss is about.

[Tommo]

I think thats the whole point of having Mick on the show. It is tv after all. His "character" has developed over the series. Other trainers seem to change but he stays. Wonder if it has anything to do with ratings
It is important to keep dinosaurs like Mickosaurus around to point out the benefits of evolution, and to keep the ancient anglo saxon language alive.

[Michele]

If you dislike the programme so much, maybe you should complain to the BBC? It isn't anything to do with the satellite TV operators, i.e Sky. If you pay your license fee, and you feel as strongly as I seem to think you do, then email them. Personally I can't see what the fuss is about.

Simon, if you do a search through this board about training, you will find that the method contrasts greatly with Dog Borstal. You may find Top Barks (Mark) posts especially interesting.

"There's more than one way to skin a cat" 

[Tommo]

The whole programe seems to be more people training than dog training anyway.

[Michele]

Yes I agree, but it is the methods that they 'train' the humans to use ie. the shaker bottle, yanking your dog behind you as your turn in direction to get it to walk to heel, shouting at it to 'leave'.

As I said in the previous post, if you look at posts by Top Barks, he believes in training the dog with kinder methods that 'persuade' the dog that walking by your side/ coming back to you when called etc. is a great idea, rather than bullying the dog into submission.

I watch the programme regularly and I'm pleased that these dogs get the chance of some order and routine to their lives, and yes, that is by changing the owners attitude.
I am just pointing out to you that the methods used to achieve those results does not always sit well with a lot of COL members 

[Tommo]

Point taken and I agree with you. I have used the gentle touch on my two. It may take longer but the rewards are ten fold, not to mention far less stressfull on the dogs. I may have got it wrong but my perception is that the dogs on the show have gone beyond that and are in need of drastic changes either in their behaviour or their owners. Plus they only have a week. The programe is of course sensationalised, it has to be or noone would watch it ( would please some ) At least it does have a positive outcome, on the whole. Even if it makes some veiwers think about how they treat their dogs. It may even land Mick a walk on part in Life on Mars

[Top Barks]

Point taken and I agree with you. I have used the gentle touch on my two. It may take longer but the rewards are ten fold, not to mention far less stressfull on the dogs. I may have got it wrong but my perception is that the dogs on the show have gone beyond that and are in need of drastic changes either in their behaviour or their owners. Plus they only have a week. The program is of course sensationalized, it has to be or no one would watch it ( would please some ) At least it does have a positive outcome, on the whole. Even if it makes some viewers think about how they treat their dogs. It may even land Mick a walk on part in Life on Mars

The dogs on Dog Borstal are no worse than dogs I deal with and I use only positive methods.
There may be extreme circumstances where the use of aversives may be needed, but these are methods that should not be attempted by the general public.
It is obvious from the posts I read on here that people do copy the methods shown on this programme and this worries me.
I appreciate they do not have long to achieve results with the dogs and shaking a bottle at a dog seems to make better tv than rewarding the dog for doing something right.
I do not like the whole concept of the programme which makes out the dogs are criminals and are in the last chance saloon.
Dogs are not naughty, they are just dogs in need of guidance by owners who take the time to learn about dogs and their behaviours to guide them in the human world.
I have complained to the BBC and had conversations on forums about DB with one of the trainers from the programme but everyone is entitled to their own oppinion.
I believe my education regarding dogs and their behaviour allows me to make an informed choice of training methods that sits nicely with my conscience.
Mark

[*Theresa*]

I appreciate they do not have long to achieve results with the dogs and shaking a bottle at a dog seems to make better tv than rewarding the dog for doing something right.

Can I check something. I have never watched this programme so I am not sure what you mean by shaking a bottle at the dog. We have discovered with Glen that if we take a small tin with biscuits in it when we go out a walk and we shake it at the same time as calling his name his recall is perfect. It also works in the house and means no matter where he is or what he is doing he stops and come and sits at my feet to get a reward. I am not shaking it at him and I can not see the harm in it but just wanted to check if this is the sort of thing you mean and if so why you would advise against it. 

[Nicola]

I appreciate they do not have long to achieve results with the dogs and shaking a bottle at a dog seems to make better tv than rewarding the dog for doing something right.

Can I check something. I have never watched this programme so I am not sure what you mean by shaking a bottle at the dog. We have discovered with Glen that if we take a small tin with biscuits in it when we go out a walk and we shake it at the same time as calling his name his recall is perfect. It also works in the house and means no matter where he is or what he is doing he stops and come and sits at my feet to get a reward. I am not shaking it at him and I can not see the harm in it but just wanted to check if this is the sort of thing you mean and if so why you would advise against it. 

This is not the same thing at all. The 'rattle bottle' used on DB is a coke can or plastic bottle filled with pebbles which is shaken right beside the dog's head when it goes to do whatever it is that they don't want it to do and at the same time as shaking it they also yell 'NO!' or 'LEAVE!' or whatever and maybe give a good yank on the lead as well in case the dog isn't scared enough already     It has absolutely nothing to do with reward whatsoever.

[*Theresa*]

I can see thats not the same thanks. Glen loves his tin and its not to scare him we use it its just to get his attention. Works like a dream too and I was a wee bit worried that it might be something I should not be doing and I would have to try something else. He took off last night and had managed to get 3 doors down no matter how much my OH called showing no signs of returning. One shake of the tin and he was sat by my feet like a rocket. 

Hmm now I come to think of it I claimed he was not manipulative..... I think Im being played. 

[*Adele*]

I watch this programme as well but wouldn't use their techniques, I just find all these programmes fascinating to watch, anything to do with doggies! LMAO! I certainly agree that the training is more about the owners in the programme and there are some very scarey techniques used! :O

As for shaking biscuits, we always did this with our cats when I was a kid, if it was tea time we'd open the door and shake the biscuit box and they'd all come running!  Things are different now though as the cats have dry food down all the time!  That will have to change though when we get a puppy! 

[Nicola]

As for shaking biscuits, we always did this with our cats when I was a kid, if it was tea time we'd open the door and shake the biscuit box and they'd all come running! 

That's the only way that my friend can get her two cats to come home! She has to stand in the garden rattling a box of Go Cat until they reappear!

[Top Barks]

You have conditioned your dog to this sound which glen now associates with receiving receiving a biccie.
By doing this you are using what is known as positive reinforcement.
The more a dog is positively reinforced for doing something the more it is likely to repeat the behaviour.
It is a fabulous recall signal.
I do the same with my whistle.
Basically to the dogs two peeps on the whistle means it's chow time if we return to dad.
Mark

[Tommo]

Mark, would it be a viable option to to show a similar program but showing either yours or similar techniques, or would the producers not deem it sensational enough. I am very cynical of all media.
I am not sure if you missunderstood my post with regards to my own training "regime" which is most definitely pink and fluffy and would have Mick turning green. He is after all ex military and ex police and they have specific training methods for very specific needs. Which I would humbly suggest does not really transfer well to "civvy" street.
I think that the program does issue a warning that the methods seen should not be tried at home