CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: Top Barks on December 07, 2018, 08:26:42 PM
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Just looking to find out what you do on walks. Why do you do things the way you do?
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I'll kick this off ;) With Jarvis who is now 13 1/2 and with poor sight and hearing we do whatever he wants to do :luv: :luv: :luv: :luv: :luv: :luv:
With Jago every "walk" is an opportunity to include more training - whether it's heel work, retrieves, quartering, stop whistle etc etc. Those big brown eyes are always on me wanting to know what we're doing next - he's pretty awesome I have to admit :lol2: ;) There's one playing field on the way back that we play around with a ball in - and that's really a goof around with him - he gets to be cheeky and playful and dance around like a loon and I encourage it :lol2: He knows the difference between work and play ;)
On the odd occasions we have to walk "in town" he has a small group of dogs that he likes and will socialise with. He's happy enough to do that, but much prefers our country/woods walk and training and working.
it works for us - he's very focussed on me, and we are a team <3
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Humphrey loves sniffing and retrieving so we take a few home made dummies with us on walks and incorporate various games en route, - I‘ll drop them while walking and them send him back to search and bring them to me, sometimes one, sometimes 3 together, sometimes I hide them, sometimes I drop them while he‘s walking to heel so he has to ignore them until I send him back to search. I never throw dummies or balls for him to chase, he has to sit while I throw and is only allowed to retrieve them on command. All these exercises are to train self control and discipline and discourage chasing wild life and, up until now (although I never say never) we‘ve had no problem with him doing a runner despite living in the back of beyond and being surrounded by deer, boar etc etc. I don‘t entertain him the whole time, he‘s allowed to amble along aswell and sniff and do his thing but I try to include a few sits, down, stays , heels, etc on all walks. He doesn‘t work but we‘ve joined a dog club and do fun activities which involve basic obedience and give him an opportunity to socialize. On the whole, he‘s pretty well balanced, does have his cocker moments but then, he is a cocker after all! 😉
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My 14yo does whatever he chooses - quite weather dependent at the moment! My 5yo worker does mostly off lead walks. Not much training as he knows his job and is reliable. We dog in a couple of times a week from late July through the season and he does agility. My youngest will chase birds/rabbits if left to entertain himself off lead. So he gets 2 hunting sessions (under control) a day with the odd retrieve. Otherwise he’s walked on lead or at heel.
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I think that is a really good point. I was discussing this with another member just the other day about cockers being cockers and managing your expectations. If you have the control that you need then you will carry on as normal. Some folks don't realise they have the control they need and strive for more. This is where the trade off comes in. If
You want more control. Then change your habits, make a plan, stick to it. Before you do, do you actually need that control or have you got something half decent in front of you already ? I was watching a cocker hunt sand dunes last week. There was nothing really to hunt for. The behaviour is hard wired and was always gonna happen. Do you reign the dog in? Well I think a balance between control and letting a cocker be a cocker somehow needs to be found
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Jack (show type) loves his training sessions indoors or the garden - but outside, forget it.
I envy those with Cockers that like a game. Sadly, TBH I've given up (or maybe less inclined is a better phrase) on trying to do 'stuff' other than practising recall with a whistle - which has been ongoing for almost four years and although much improved, still far from 100%. (While you'r here TB please let me say a big thanks for your 'How To Teach A Reliable Recall'). He's not food oriented and even fresh roast chicken will not tempt him when he's in 'hunting mode'. Neither is he interested in chasing after balls, sticks, or retrieving - which is a shame as it would save me an awful lot of leg work! He seems mostly content just to plod along and investigate whatever catches his nose. I'm lucky in that there's quiet woodland within ten minutes walk, so he's mostly off lead for about an hour around lunchtime and half an hour plodding the streets on a lead in the evening. I'd love to do more with him, but I've worn myself out to no avail. The best exercise he ever got was chasing after a ball obsessed springer - not chasing after the ball, chasing after the dog! Sadly they've moved away...
He's a happy soul nevertheless and seems content just to do his own thing - so that's what we do. Have to keep my wits about me though - the 'red mist' can be unpredictable...
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Humphrey loves sniffing and retrieving so we take a few home made dummies with us on walks and incorporate various games en route, - I‘ll drop them while walking and them send him back to search and bring them to me, sometimes one, sometimes 3 together, sometimes I hide them, sometimes I drop them while he‘s walking to heel so he has to ignore them until I send him back to search. I never throw dummies or balls for him to chase, he has to sit while I throw and is only allowed to retrieve them on command. All these exercises are to train self control and discipline and discourage chasing wild life and, up until now (although I never say never) we‘ve had no problem with him doing a runner despite living in the back of beyond and being surrounded by deer, boar etc etc. I don‘t entertain him the whole time, he‘s allowed to amble along aswell and sniff and do his thing but I try to include a few sits, down, stays , heels, etc on all walks. He doesn‘t work but we‘ve joined a dog club and do fun activities which involve basic obedience and give him an opportunity to socialize. On the whole, he‘s pretty well balanced, does have his cocker moments but then, he is a cocker after all! 😉
I do pretty Much the same although we are in work mode from late aug to feb so during that time work is exercise
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Once we are off road mine do pretty much what they like, running around, sniffing here and there, after all it is their time and as long as they come back to me for treat and to have leads on and are good on the walk back and in the home that's fine. Mine are companion dogs so have no need for continuous training.
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We go to a local playing field. Bramble loves to retrieve her ball but is only allowed as payment for obedience work rather than just throwing.
Maddie is my problem. She is fear reactive which happened ( partly)as she was too far away from me sniffing, wouldn't recall and got pounced on. You could literally see her jump out of her skin!
To keep her close I do a bit of obedience, rally moves. She will retrieve a sock a couple of times but then gets fed up and just sniffs. I do lots of sniffing for treats with both of them. However, as soon as I stop Maddie is off doing her own thing which I cant allow in case other dogs run over to her. She has a pretty good whistle recall but sniffing wins out some times.
I feel Maddie is a very independent dog and will only do something if food is involved, whereas Bramble is the 'Velcro' dog
We do this because we got help from a trainer and I've read a lot on the internet
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Dylan is not interested in toys or balls. He is 3.5 years old, and his puppy toys are all still intact. He'll chase a soft ball a couple of times, but is quickly bored. He will never bring things back resulting is more legwork for us! He will run after a ball a couple of times when out, but then wants us to chase him (which we don't), but just drops the ball where he found it. All he wants to do is sniff. We have woods near us, and also the beach, and it is nose down all the time. He does love finding things at home, not so much outdoors. He loves to greet people and have a fuss, and once he's said hello, he will come. His recall is pretty good. I would love him to be more interactive, but obviously the world of smells is immensely more interesting than anything else. He's happy.
Lesley and Dylan
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Hello Mark :D
14 year old William, deaf and partially sighted, does his own thing off lead when we're in our usual part of the New Forest. He likes routine and familiarity nowadays and doesn't wander far, but trots around and sniffs a lot in his favourite places. If we go anywhere unfamiliar he stays on a long lead for safety reasons because he still gets excited in new places and trots off at speed! His recall used to be good, but is patchy now he's deaf. I have to capture that moment when he turns and looks at me. I put both arms up, which he recognises as a recall signal and comes back (unless there's a tempting pile of fresh horse poo nearby, in which he case he ignores me and trots off for a snack. His hearing and sight are knackered but there's nothing wrong with his nose and appetite :lol2:).
9 year old Louis is almost always off lead and tends to stay quite close when it's our familiar walk with William, which I think he finds a bit boring. But I call him to me and do little bits of training for treats or a throw of a tennis ball or just a bit of praise. If we go somewhere unfamiliar and without William he's more excited and runs a lot more, but still doesn't go far. He checks in by looking at me frequently and I do a mix of letting him run, sniff, mooch about and sometimes just stopping and looking about him, plus a bit of training.
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Our 2 year old wcs has 3 different walks a day.
Morning is socialising, we walk with my friend and her young dog who is learning to be nice to others! Leo is on lead and off lead roughly 50/50. No toys, just the chance to roam and do his own thing.
Lunchtime is with his dog walker, he looovves the dog walker and this walk consists of off lead play, lots of love and fuss but generally no real training. Just a lot of fun.
Evening walk is where the fun lies. We mix it up, some nights he will have off lead play with a ball or frisbee, other days we will focus on his scentwork so much more on lead, other nights we will work on recall and recall games that involve a lot of fun. We also incorporate swimming, loose lead walking games, and trick training. We limit socialising on these walks however don't refuse him the chance to say hello to others if the opportunity comes along.
3 very different walks with very different enrichment.
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I think that is a really good point. I was discussing this with another member just the other day about cockers being cockers and managing your expectations. If you have the control that you need then you will carry on as normal. Some folks don't realise they have the control they need and strive for more. This is where the trade off comes in. If
You want more control. Then change your habits, make a plan, stick to it. Before you do, do you actually need that control or have you got something half decent in front of you already ? I was watching a cocker hunt sand dunes last week. There was nothing really to hunt for. The behaviour is hard wired and was always gonna happen. Do you reign the dog in? Well I think a balance between control and letting a cocker be a cocker somehow needs to be found
I will add that the youngest is just two and had his first day out beating today. Am thrilled with his attitude and behaviour in a pressurised environment. But this is down to a huge amount of work getting him steady. He has an all red pedigree and is both nervy and highly strung with huge prey drive. I’ve not been able to just ‘let him be a cocker’ as no environment is totally free of animals he would find and chase. They include sparrows, pigeons, squirrels, etc. In order to get the all important stop to flush reliable I cannot simply let him hunt on his own. It quickly escalated to chasing and any repetition of this becomes hugely rewarding. And I would lose more control each time he did it as that is infinitely more rewarding than hanging around with me. Unless we go hunting together- and he learns that we find birds together. Had an episode in summer that was frightening and meant I had to revert to being so much more strict with his off lead exercise. With it being so hot, we’d been on the beach a lot. And he had more free running time as I thought there’s nothing much for him to hunt there. Aside from a load of seagulls. He saw them suddenly and ran out across the mud flats at least 300/400yds away and was so over stimulated he just continued to chase. I actually thought I might lose him to exhaustion. So it may appear that I’m a bit of a control freak without knowing this dog and his history. But some dogs require a totally different programme. He is worked and I may compete in trials with him (still a bit undecided). But at the very least he needs to be steady around game, hunt under control and stop to flush. I do think that in a couple of years he will settle more and I may be able to trust him more. And if I decide against competing then I will relax the rules a bit. But he is a happy, fulfilled dog as he is allowed to hunt - and that’s what he really wants to do. I allow him to do that, but it needs to be on my terms rather than his in order that he doesn’t turn feral (as many of these working type cockers do).
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Jago is ftch to ftw and could potentially be "feral". I knew that from day 1 so we've always trained and I didn't let him chase or self hunt as this would have been his downfall. Not one sparrow from day 1 :D I didn't take him on shoots until he was 3 because of my self-doubt at being able to control him. I really shouldn't have worried - last weekend we blanked in an area and he was the only dog with at least 50 pheasants in front of him. I sent him in and he flushed around 10, sat to the stop whistle with dozens of pheasants in front of him and we sent them out in about 5 pulses. So proud of his steadiness! I'm not competitive or hard enough to trial him. He should have been but he loves his working career and he's a happy content dog.
Back to walking - if he was hunting a sand dune, I'd let him as I know I can get him to come back even if there is game around. If he was hunting a sand dune and I had any doubt I wouldn't be able to recall him I wouldn't be letting him go. On our beach holidays for example the only thing that he "has" to do is come back if we need him to, and stay close if we feel he should be.
What bugs me more on walks is that we're the ones with our dogs off lead who mind their own business and have no interest in other dogs and we're subjected to owners who allow their dogs to run miles away from them to see ours. What if ours weren't polite and reasonable? These dogs are so far away their owners would have to be Usain Bolt to be able to get to them if something kicked off. That's a lack of control in my eyes.
I've always worked on the premise that there is a natural cocker boundary - and if they're beyond that then it's tricky to get them back (don't think an HPR is for me :lol2: ). So we work to that until they're reliable. I truly believe if you put in the training in the first 18 months it sets you up for a lifetime of happy easy dog walking ;)
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Not sure Kes will ever be an 'easy' dog to walk in any conventional sense :lol2:. He's not been 'allowed' to chase, and aside from the beach episode he's never chased more than maybe 50 yards. Always comes back and can be recalled easily enough. I suppose my approach is a bit different to most as i need more than just a recall off birds. If he is ever to compete he needs a totally reliable stop to flush, and any movement means an immediate elimination. So for Pip dogging in, it's fine if he just comes when recalled and turns on the whistle for beating. Kes needs an extra level of training and precision in his work. And until that's reliable it's unacceptable for him to just hunt about and recall. Am giving him to the end of the season to decide whether to pursue trialing, and once i've decided against it i will allow him more freedom. I think it's a case of me ensuring that we don't miss an opportunity to compete just because i've been lazy with the training ;). (Helen - out of interest - why do you say you're not hard enough to trial?)
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Jinley is a 7 year old show cocker. I dont take treats out with me for our morning walk in the woods as she becomes unbearable if another dog comes up to say hello.
The morning walk is a sociable walk (both for humans and dogs) although the dogs just walk with us off lead with not much interaction with each other unless a squirrel is seen at which point its who can run the fastest (or stalked patiently until another dog ruins it).
Recall is good, and she always remains in view, unless on a chase then the cloth ears affliction kicks in.
She is very good at finding "Pete the Treat" in the woods as he always gives her fresh cooked chicken.
Generally she is a lazy dog, sleeps all day in the house if there is nothing going on.
We have tried agility (she couldnt see the point) and have even tried beating, which if she had been the only dog and there was only one drive that day, she could do it all on her own, but could never get her to come back between drives under control.
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Darwin will be 10yr in Feb. He’s got serve IVDD. Having had at least 5 ruptured disc. We’ve just achieved 1000 days post paralysis and spinal surgery.
He has 3 walks ( max 10 mins each, he’s starting to drag his weakest rear leg by the time he gets home) on pavement using harness and lead, avoiding any dogs or human friends ( to reduce excitement and potential for injury). Walks are at 7am, 3pm and 10pm (which enables us to try and manage his bowels) All off lead time is in the back garden.
Yes, it a limited life, but he’s tail doesn’t stop wagging
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I think that is a really good point. I was discussing this with another member just the other day about cockers being cockers and managing your expectations. If you have the control that you need then you will carry on as normal. Some folks don't realise they have the control they need and strive for more. This is where the trade off comes in. If
You want more control. Then change your habits, make a plan, stick to it. Before you do, do you actually need that control or have you got something half decent in front of you already ? I was watching a cocker hunt sand dunes last week. There was nothing really to hunt for. The behaviour is hard wired and was always gonna happen. Do you reign the dog in? Well I think a balance between control and letting a cocker be a cocker somehow needs to be found
Am wondering though re sand dunes if there is a scent of sorts though as all manner of wildlife use dunes when we're not rampaging through them but I agree with you re the balance.
I have just adopted a cocker - he's show type but acts more like a worker when he's offlead. Initially he was obsessed with scenting around the woodland on the park to the point he blanked me as if his life depended on it. Now he's more aware of his surroundings and me so while he will hunt squirrels he now responds to me so we're getting there but early days. We do play 'find it' games when out and I will often interact with mine anyway as its more than just a walk (sometimes an adventure)
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Really interesting reading these replies and lovely hearing how different our cockers are. Harry is quite a complicated little chap but has actually blossomed since Ben died. He will be 10 in March, but a month or so after we lost Ben in spring 2017 he started to initiate play with us out walking, doing zoomies, picking up whatever he could find and bringing it to us for a game. His walks are off lead mostly so we use them as an opportunity for him to play and let off steam. His attention is on us most of the time and he doesn't wander to far away. He looks back and checks to see where we are and i do lots of recalls using whistle or hand gestures. When Ben went deaf he quickly learnt hand gestures, so I have carried them on for Harry as although his hearing is fine now it might be helpful in the future.
When Harry came to us he had a really strong chase instinct and had been allowed to chase everything with previous owners. It took us about 3 years on the long line and going back to basics to stop him disappearing, which he did a few times when we were caught out!
I know some will disaprove but i will let him chase birds when we walk sometimes. Where we walk sometimes you get massive crows on the ground and he is so good he never runs off after them but he looks so longingly so every now and them i will tell him ok and he runs and runs and has a great time ph34r. He will always come back to the whistle when I want him to. I know its shocking behaviour from me :005: but if i felt it was impacting on his recall i would stop it.
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Not shocking at all. If you letting your dog go doesn't impact on the recall you need then why not. :D
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Bea is a great sniffer, her walks are usually off lead and she is allowed to potter about.
I will recall her several times during the walk, mostly for treats but this is broken up by the occasional back or belly rub :luv: so she doesn't always know what she is getting.
As her nose is usually down she is totally oblivious to what is happening around her, she would often be startled by dogs rushing in so we have tought her "in coming" if a dog is approaching then we shout "in coming" and Bea pops her head up to have a look, no more startled Bea :005:
She also knows the word Coffee and Car, this usually results in her finding the shortest route to the Cafe or Car so has to be used wisely :D , this skill (?) was taught to her by my Mum who with my dad take her out during the day while I'm at work.
Sharon.
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Not shocking at all. If you letting your dog go doesn't impact on the recall you need then why not. :D
phew I expected a telling off :lol2: !
I always think the adrenalin rush he gets must be a bit like us doing an extreme sport, so Harry's bird chase is the doggy equivalent to an abseil, he comes back eyes shining with that jaunty trot and all giddy!
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But does he come back when you call him Ben's mum?
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But does he come back when you call him Ben's mum?
Yes he comes back to the whistle when I want him, it makes me smile he is such a good boy :lol2:
Its also different to the head down hunting he used to do when he had the smell of something to chase in the early days - then he used to just lose his head completely and he just couldn't hear or see me at all he was so focused on hunting. I would still never risk letting him off in an area with pheasants as I am not 100% sure he would come back and don't want to undo the hard work it took to get where we are. I am curious as to whether his recall is strong enough not going to put it to the test :005:
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Hi.
My 18 month old wcs has a pretty nice life. We live in a great place for dogs so every morning we just go out of our back gate, along a footpath on lead for 5 minutes (still pulling despite my best efforts-she'll do 'close' but then just steams off again :huh:)
Then at the end of the path, lead is unclipped and she waits until I say she can go.
There are various ways we can go around the surrounding acres of open fields and woodlands. The first half of the walk I do a few recalls with treats and she invariably will bump into some other dogs and have a play. Then we'll go into the woods and do some tennis ball finding which is what she absolutely loves. If I have tennis balls, her attention is completely on me. During this she will drop on the whistle, come close, wait etc. However, our walks have closed in a bit since the last time we ranged out over the fields a long way she went pheasant crazy and was ignoring everything. I am now a bit nervous about taking out there again as she was spotted by a game keeper who had a go at me. She was only gone a few minutes but it's not a nice feeling to realise your animal has gone completely deaf. It's very frustrating because she is otherwise pretty good when she's out and about and I've never lost her but now I feel a bit nervous that she might do it again and I don't want her to practise!!. She does like to be with me but that was like a different dog. Her chase instinct is very intense and she is so fast you could never catch her if she'd decided not to come back.
At the end of a normal walk she knows it's the end and I call her in, she'll let me have her ball and lead on and gets treats. When the waters not too cold, she loves it if we throw a ball into the river-she will run full tilt and take off with a huge leap through the air into the river-landing in a spectacular belly flop, completely submerging and rising triumphant with her ball! It's fantastic to watch and always draws a crowd of smilng passers by!
On balance, some walks have been sometimes a bit stressful for us, but I love to see the joy of a spaniel being a spaniel. She still has some behaviours that are inappropriate but she does love people and is good with other dogs and she has a wonderful time when she is having her walks so I hope that all the niggles will come good in the end.