Unable to cope

[littlepepper]

Hi,

This is probably going to be a long one and so apologies in advance!

In August this year after a long time of talking about it my partner and I finally picked up our working cocker spaniel puppy.

We had several reasons for wanting one, including my partner looking for a dog that he could train up to go beating with, and me looking for a companion for our 5yr old cockerpoo.

I bought the puppy as a gift for my partner, and I did extensive research to try and get it right. I read all about how much hard work cocker spaniels puppies are, how intelligent (and therefore in need of stimulation!) they are, their genetic risks, and I knew I wanted a puppy from a breeder that didn't just look for the red ink but bred for family temperament as well. Having said that I did want a puppy from a working breeder because my partner was looking for something to work. I found what I thought was the right dog for us and we visited and met the parents before we got her.

We've now had her for almost 4 months and I can honestly say the rollercoaster of emotions I've been through in that time has been immense!

So many times I have wondered if we should speak to the breeder about returning her and wished we'd never got her.

We try and have her out with my older dog but she chases him round and he just barks at her which isn't great for our neighbours. She ignores his growls and finds it funny when he gets all in her face and just gets more excited. He's so stressed he's started destroying his beds which I'm so upset about because I really wanted a friend for him.

She jumps up at everything, me, the counter, the table (which she's put a big scratch in) and she needs constant amusement and supervision when she's out of her crate. We can't leave her on her own in a room even for a minute because she pines and jumps at the door and then starts jumping at the counter. So I'm left wondering how we can ever have a normal life with her if our only options are to supervise her constantly or have her in her crate (which thankfully she's generally fine with). I'm scared she's getting separation anxiety.

I've got anxiety and had a panic attack because of her. I generally work from home, and when I don't work from home she goes to daycare, but my work is causing me so much stress and it's made so much worse because I'm trying to cope with her as well. She's almost 6 months now and a couple of times I've tried having her in the room with me when I've been working but she amuses herself for 2 minutes and then starts yipping or chewing the wall. If she gets really riled she'll start barking.

I'm so worried that she's got loads of bad habits which we're struggling to deal with (bad recall, jumping, separation anxiety, how she is with my big dog, not being able to settle, lack of attention span), and that we're causing her loads of trouble because we're not doing a good enough job to teach her. I don't know what to do. I don't want to give her up but I don't know how to carry on. And I don't want to let her or my partner down. Sometimes I wonder if she would be better off going somewhere where she will be able to work more because she's clearly so intelligent and so in need of having a job to do.

I guess I'm just looking for some reassurance that this will get better because right now I don't know what to do and I feel like she will never be a dog we can have with us in the house without having to worry about what she's doing if we take our eyes off her.

[lescef]

Oh... Bless you. The puppy stage can be so hard. Even if you've had a puppy before, we tend to forget how trying it can be. I found having two dogs very difficult and there doesn't appear to be a lot of information around. We ended up getting help from a positive behaviourist.  Could you do this?
She is still very young yet so her attention span will not be good and she is just about to become an adolescent!
I think she sounds like a normal puppy.
I understand the anxiety thing. My daughter found her barking rescue dog after moving house very stressful.
Our trainer told us that when we found it all too much, to put them in their crates. This is better than the tension that they will pick up on if you continue to try and battle it out.
I worked on a positive way of interrupting  my two when play got too much. They learnt "ahh ahh enough" meant stop, but you could use a clap or other word.
You could work on 'relax on a mat' and also do some scentwork with her to tire her out mentally.
I also learnt to ignore bad behaviour and really praise any time they are quiet or doing something good!
There will be lots of help coming I'm sure. Good luck

[phoenix]

My cocker puppy was a revelation compared with my other dogs, and reduced me to tears and fear, though our problems  were different. 
On the positive side.....you have an intelligent, sociable  friendly youngster who isn’t a resource guarder, and doesn’t attack anyone. She is a teenager.....it can pass!
Before doing anything drastic,it sounds to me that she needs the best training classes, preferably with other dogs so she has to learn to ignore them.    The brighter the dog, the more it needs to satisfy its urge to work and play. The more you can throw at her, the more respect she will show you. My dog was really bright (and difficult) but in a class he would learn a new trick or movement in five repeats.  He thrived on it.  Their brains ‘tire out’  and relax them.
What motivates her?  Usually it’s the smelliest food, or you can combine it with clicker trainer, which ensures that they are listening.  The first step in training is to get instant eye contact, however fleeting, and reward it.  That is the key to control.
Classes vary, from trooping round in a circle, to the best ones with positive behaviour methods, so make sure you research them.  Cockers’ ability is amazing,  and remember that their nose is a special feature, so teaching them to search for food, and identify your socks from your partners, is all easy.  My dog should have been a medical detector dog, my other dog had autoimmune problems and he would sniff her all over every day, and sit unnaturally close to her if he was concerned. I regularly took her to the vet, saying that the cocker sent me. He was always right, and antibiotics were despensed.
  Till he was a year old, he was the puppy from hell. You are not alone!
If you are at home working, it would be ideal you to do five minute training slots. One of my current dogs needed an individual training regime every month, and as an adult dog, he was required to have his morning food used as training treating throughout the morning.
You are not alone, just read the other posts, or ones from the archives!

[Penelope]

So sorry you are feeling like this.  It DOES get better - I promise.
We have 3 dogs.
Dexter is an 8 year old cavalier x poodle.  He is incredibly well behaved (mostly) and even comes to dog training with me to show other dogs (and their humans) how to behave.
Then we have Alfie.  He is a 6 year old Whippet x poodle.  Very clever, full of energy and a complete lunatic - but knows how to behave when he has to (ie when I tell him - never takes notice of "dad"!)

Then we have Maximus.... What can I say about him?  He is a 10 month old cocker spaniel.  Much wanted. Long awaited and he has been very very very hard work.

We had completely forgotten what it was like having a puppy in the house.
My husband is disabled and at times has been totally at his wit's end as he is at home with the dogs all day.  I work part time - mornings only - and when I get home my husband is usually exhausted.

Max is finally beginning to turn the corner - it has been hard work.  Lots and lots of hard work.  Lots of repetition and lots of patience, but we can see that it is beginning to show.

When I get the dogs' dinners ready, Alfie and Dexter just sit and wait.  I was constantly telling Max "OFF!" and I mean constantly.... He used to bounce so high I was worried he would hurt himself.  In the past couple of months he has started to realise what I want of him and he actually goes and sits in his crate waiting for his dinner! 

He used to pull like a steam train no matter how many different things I tried to stop him.   Against my better judgement I got him a harness (something I have never agreed with) BUT it is a harness with a difference - it has a D ring on his back and under his chest and it is absolutely brilliant.  He walks perfectly on it now. 

He has always slept on my bed in his crate (my husband sleeps in a hospital bed so I get the double bed with the dogs!!) and he used to get me up several times a night.  Now, most mornings, I wake him up!!

I am not saying he is perfect, but he is so much better than he was. 

Take a deep breath.  Stop and think of all the positive things he has done and you will realise that (although you may often feel overwhelmed) in lots of ways your puppy is actually improving.  Have a cup of tea and a chocolate biscuit, stay positive, keep consistent and you will get there.

Big hugs.

[Digger]

Just wanted to chime in on this one.
Firstly, big hug.
I know exactly how you feel. Do all the research, be a responsible person, prepare, already had a dog, etc etc. Collect the pup and WHAM! What the hell??!!!!!!! Ours was all of those things (apart from the yipping but with the addition of some ferocious biting!)
I can only impart what we have found has helped:

1) Don't take it personally.
2)Learn to increase your sense of humour so you can look at your dog, roll your eyes and say 'you idiot'
3) Don't start shouting (yeah we did it) otherwise you're just all barking. Mine loved that-it made things even more exciting!
4)Be the bigger person. Decide what to do, and do it calmly and quietly. Think- it's just a little dog.
We found that when ours got ridiculous, the only thing that really worked was exclusion. Either calmly pick her up and place her out of the room  for a minute, or if she was attacking us-like a demented Tasmanian devil-we would get up and leave the room ourselves. Sometimes 10 times in a night! And it has to be unmistakable exclusion for the crime. I.e: Do it immediately and comprehensively. If there are 2 people in the room, they both have to get up and go. No looking at her, touching, talking, just go.
Ours is now 16 months and still has some irritating behaviours but some good ones too.  At about 6-12 months she got really cocky and thought she was going to start getting snappy with us but we put her in her place (a telling off then a longer exclusion) and touch wood she doesn't try that on any more. Occasionally we still have to wheel out the putting out of the room routine but generally she is much much much better. I think if you can develop a close bond that will really help. Which is hard. I know, but I really love my little dog now and I think she loves me too. It's almost as though everything they do is 100% over exuberant, even the bad stuff and they don't even know they're doing it. Sometimes if I have a bit of a go at my dog she looks at me like I've got 3 heads!
This breed in my limited, singular experience, does not fit with the description of the 'merry cocker, perfect family dog, biddable,wants to please, easy to train...' what?!!??!
 There are still a few things I would like to iron out with mine but she is super affectionate, loyal, loves people, friendly with other dogs, and I honestly think she's going to be a cracking little dog long term. I have realised that I must stop comparing her to my previous dog. They are not the same so it's not fair.
I contained ours for a bit, but she is actually fine if you trust her and leave her in a dog proofed room when we go out. My husband and I have coined a new dog related phrase:
5)'One needs to learn to lower one's expectations'.
We find it helps! :005:I do feel for you and if you have a feisty, opinionated one like ours, there's probably a way to go before things get better but they will. Apparently cockers  are puppies until they're 2, and 3 before they steady up at all. They are definitely an investment dog and not for the faint hearted. I'm tough as old boots and mine's had me in tears! Give yourself a break sometimes and good luck with her. It will get better.

[bizzylizzy]

Brilliant replies from all, especially Digger, who‘s adventures we‘ve often accompanied on here!  but has nevertheless always manages to maintain a sense of humour. It DOES get better, honestly and most of these things are puppy phases and, provided they‘re dealt with properly and not with harsh punishments that the pup can’t understand,  will pass,  Consistency is vital.
When you feel you‘re not getting anywhere,, think about what she HAS learned already, rather than concentrating on the negatives, its often the most challenging of dogs that appear to be the most treasured in the end, because the bond is often closer. You‘re absolutely not alone here, this is a wonderful place for moral support, so I would also advise, have a look on the internet, read up as much as you can and get professional help if necessary but most important, don‘t lose heart!
Also, rest and sleep is SO important, many dogs become so wound up and excited because they‘re overtired and young pups need loads of sleep!
Best of luck, keep us posted! 

[Digger]

Yep-all of that from bizzylizzy too! Very true.

I must just add this from my husband: (over breakfast I was telling him that someone is having a hard time with their pup).
He said: 'Well you know what they say.. If you're going through Hell, keep going!!!'

Priceless.

[littlepepper]

Thank you so much to everyone who has responded. It is massively heartening to see that people have gone through the same as us and that it has got better for you.

@lescef, a behaviourist is definitely on the cards and as my partner wants to work her he has the details of a very good, positive training gundog person so hopefully that will help but the challenges we have right now are that it's Christmas so money is tight, and my work suddenly ramped up in volume and stress so the time I get to spend one on one with her has decreased. I'm so worried that she is learning bad habits, or not learning the right stuff now, and we're setting ourselves up for more trouble in the future.
We have tried to teach her settle but if there is no food forthcoming she just gets up and wanders off (same with trying to teach her to walk to heel).
I'm so relieved you think she sounds normal.

@phoenix, thank you. Unfortunately she will resource guard very high value things, but not her food or toys, and we're trying to work on it. Thankfully not arguing over stuff with my big dog though! I will definitely try some brain games and try going back to basics with her. I got disheartened as she picks things up super fast but she gets bored and she's independent so she'll only do things when she wants to if you've any tips for teaching the sock thing please let me know! That sounds right up her street (the breeder we got her from actually breeds dogs for medical detection and for assistance dogs - we really thought we'd lucked out!). That's amazing about your pup.

@Penelope, I've seen some of your other posts. Maximus sounds wonderful but a real handful! It's so good to hear he's turning a corner, thank you for sharing. Ours is the same, she jumps and bounds and I get so worried she'll do damage, especially as they're prone to elbow displasia. She can jump SO high. Please could you let me know the harness you have? We have one for ours but she's growing out of it now.

@Digger reading that could have been describing our pup. You're 100% right I shouldn't compare her to Bert. He pretty much self trained himself, super bright and keen to please - starting to realise we seriously lucked out with him as he my first dog and at the time I was living with my parents who were dead against me getting a dog - they now adore him! If it had been Indie it would have been a different situation entirely...
We do exclusion with her and it does work, I will definitely try US walking out as well if she's getting too attacking because she does have those moments.
You're 100% right, I wouldn't describe them that way - merry yes but completely mad!
Can I ask, when you left her in a room for the first few times did you find that she stressed out? Did you just wait it out if so? She jumps up at the surfaces and sides or just sits at the door and waits; she's fine in her crate but can't self soothe or amuse herself outside of it!

@bizzylizzy, thank you. I decided to post here because every post I read everyone was so supportive and kind (and I've been on forums where that's not the case at all); thank you all so much. I will try and focus on the positives as you say

Thanks everyone; I'm very grateful to all your considered responses. I'm so worried I am setting ourselves up to fail in the future, and reading all your responses has given me renewed hope!

[littlepepper]

He said: 'Well you know what they say.. If you're going through Hell, keep going!!!'

I love this! I might just print it out and hang it in the kitchen!!! 

[Emilyoliver]

Hi,
Sorry to hear of your difficulties with your puppy.  Please don’t take any of this as harsh criticism – it’s just a list of responses to your issues/ concerns. 
Make rules and stick to them.  While puppies are very cute ([particularly cockers), they need boundaries and rules in order to make sense of their world.  And while cockers may look very cute, I have found that so many people who have them give in to them too often which leads to a frantic, annoying undisciplined dog.  I’m not advocating any harsh treatment when I say discipline.  I mean have a strict routine of when you do x and or y.  So for example – take her out in the morning for a walk/ play session (maybe half an hour max) then go back home and put her in a crate or separate room.  You can leave her there with something to chew like a hoof or filled kong.  She may whine to begin with, but will soon learn the routine and understand what is expected.  Do not go to her every time she squeaks.  Leave her to work it out and she will learn to rest.  I do this with all of my puppies.  Whatever the breed – they need down time as much as stimulation.
Don’t spend all day/ night entertaining her.  She doesn’t need that, and it’s making her more demanding every time you give in.  She needs to learn to relax.  If she’s out on a walk/ playing at least twice a day there’s no reason to be pandering to her every whim in between.  If you crate her once you get back with a chew she will learn to settle.  If you let her out and she gets manic – just put her back in.  They’re smart dogs and will learn that unless she settles, she will be crated. Learn to ignore her.
Walk/ play with her on her own.  She needs to bond with you/ your partner, not your other dog.  My puppies aren’t walked with my adult dogs at all until at least 6-8 months, and then only maybe once a week.  My older dogs like time with me, un-harassed by a small bitey puppy.  The same applies at home.  If the puppies harass the older dogs, the puppies are crated until they’re more sensible.  Quite often they are manic because they are tired, and will go to sleep in literally seconds of being crated.  Walking/ playing with her on her own will improve your bond and improve her attentiveness and recall because she will associate good things with being with you.  (Not sure what part your partner is playing in any of this, but seriously – if he wants to beat with her, he’s going to have to bond very closely with her, and will need to start with some kind of basic training now.  He probably knows – but for anyone who doesn’t: getting a dog to a standard where it can be worked with the distraction of sometimes thousands of birds takes a great lot of effort and time).  Could he not do the training/ walking in the mornings/evenings?
Stop the daycare.  I can’t think that it’s helping any of the issues you describe.  It’s more likely to be confusing if she’s treated oine way there, and then there are other expectations of her at home.  Many daycare setups allow dogs to run riot all day long.  No good for a high drive breed that needs boundaries and settling down rather than hyping up.
Get help form somebody who knows the breed.  I would suggest you contact the breeder.  Let them know what issues you are having.  They should be able to help as they should know the breed and how it ticks.  And they may be able to recommend a local trainer.  Also, if you did decide later on to try and rehome her – at least they’d know you had tried to work through the issues rather than just returned a dog because you couldn’t cope.
I hope you get through this tough time, but please don’t assume that she’ll just ‘grow out of’ the behaviours.  These dogs need work put into them to get results and to be contented pups.  It can be very hard work, but it is hugely rewarding.  Good luck.

[phoenix]

I agree about training your partner.  It almost broke my marriage. OH didn’t believe in positive  training, and ruined any early trust from Bob.  Coping with resource guarding was the problem, and through the advice and support from other Col members, we got through it.  It’s just that positive training goes against the cave man mentality!  Eventually he saw I was right. Consistency is essential.
Most cockers are extremely sensitive. And complicated.
Now I have got a terrier, tough as old boots,  an ideal caveman dog, and they adore each other.

[bmthmark]

I haven't had time to read all the replies.

From my experience, I went through the same as you. My boy Jett was really hard work as a puppy, he constantly needed attention and he hated being left on his own. Even at night in his crate he was a nightmare. He ripped wall paper off walls and generally destroyed stuff.

He is now 2 years old and is the most adorable boy you can imagine, he is no trouble at all now and is happy to just be with me or a family member. I don't need to entertain him all the time. He still is't 100% happy about being left, but I don't think any dog really is happy on their own. But we have to work and we have to go out.

I have always done a morning training session with him, this takes 30 minutes of my time but sets him up for the day. I also take him to gundog training once week which has helped with his commands.


The way you are feeling was exactly what I felt 2 years ago. I remember thinking to myself, how will I cope and I can't continue like this. Luckily my wife talked me round and we both battled on through it to get the right routine and training.
Now 2 years later he is just amazing, he still has lots of energy. But the key thing now is that he listens and understands what I saying.

Keep going and trust me it will get easier.

[littlepepper]

@Emilyoliver, thank you nothing sounded harsh. Thankfully my partner is very thorough, responsible, and consistent with the training, and seems to have a very strong bond with her, so no issues there. Thank goodness! He does take her out morning and evening and does a lot of training with her.
We don't walk her with Bert because that would be chaos and she wouldn't learn anything so another thumbs up there but we do try and have some time with them together in the evening.
She settles in the crate but not out unless she has a chew, and I'm reluctant for her to have a chew at all hours as I don't want her to damage her teeth (if anyone has any suggestions for good long lasting chews please send them my way )
The breeder sadly is 4 hours away so won't be able to recommend trainers but I will definitely contact her and see if she has any pointers.
Thank you very much for all your suggestions, I will put them into practice.

@bmthmark thank you. Hearing that others have gone through it - and got through it! - is so reassuring. I think I need to start looking for some things that I can work on with her so our time together is more productive. I was getting so frustrated because I felt like I was failing with her because she's such a pocket rocket, but from reading everyones responses I think I just need about 3 more years of perseverance!

[Patp]

Sending you some virtual hugs.

Do you drink wine?  You should get plenty of it.

Really agree with what has been said, but please go to some gun dog training sessions, normal dog training will not cut the mustard on a clever little worker who needs a role in his life, especially if your hubby is planning on being able to enjoy a day beating with a dog that doesnt ruin the whole shoot (like mine almost did once doing her own thing looking for pheasants).

What you invest now in time (and a little money) will reward you many times.  Even one lesson a month, with a good trainer that then gives you homework / boundaries etc would work well.

Also look for a beginners agility class near you, not sure at what age you can start but you might find there is a waiting list.  Anything that keeps your pup focussed on you and what you are wanting it to do for you will keep their mind active. 

Something I learned is dont just tell them what you dont want them to do, you have to follow it with what you want them to do too.

Good luck - did I mention wine?

[Digger]

Hi again.
In reply to your question-
Re the exclusion thing: We would only shut her out/shut ourselves out for 30 seconds to start with, then add 30 seconds for repeat offences-up to 2minutes (longer than that and we reckoned she'd probably forget why she was out there). We rarely had to do more than  4 in a row. If she did start whining/scratching we would wait until there was a gap in the noise before opening the door. If we did have to do more than 4 we reckoned she was beyond reasoning with so would put her in her 'room'. Exclusion was, and still is the fall back for the only thing that worked. Now, she is more responsive to 'no' ...and, call me nuts but I have recently started having conversations with her (bear with me) ..I think it's possibly the tone off voice, combined with attention for a bit longer than a quick reprimand that can sometimes diffuse things and break her train of thought...Or it might be that I am mad. I'm not sure.  If I am, I definitely blame this dog.

Have you got an antler? Not you personally. I was conned into buying one from pets at home when Inca was little and nearly choked at the price but she's had it over a year now and still has a gnaw on it regularly. They are all natural and don't smell. I sometimes hold it for her when we're relaxing on the sofa (yeah-we get some of that now ) and its probably a good bonding thing.
I do agree with Emilyoliver about day care. I would personally not let anyone else look after my dog in its formative stages. Not so for most dogs but these are not most dogs. We had to go to Oxford at the weekend for a family meal out so our pooch came too. I always reckon it's better she is alone in our camper van for a while than with someone who might be getting it wrong, never mind how kindly meant.
I went to see a proper gun dog trainer last week and even he said that you mustnt fall out with these. A springer will forgive you but these are little people. He actually said that.

I have fallen out with mine btw. More than once, and were fine but I think it is good advice as if I have fallen out with her it's not productive. It's better if you can try to avoid it.

I really do feel for you. I know how relentless it is. It grinds you down after a time and inhabits your brain, but you will start to see an improvement in time. We still have backslides, but her general trajectory is in the right direction and I do believe she will be great in the end.
 Like bizzylizzy said, sometimes the ones that are really hard work end up with the best bond.
 Mine still drives me crazy to some degree but when I come home from work and she sees me in the porch she is wagging her bum off, then she'll go and get something in her mouth because she's remembered that's what we told her to do when she was bitey all the time, then she'll do a sit, shuffle backwards, down, sit, down, back, sit..aaaaagggghhhh!!!! and just jump all over the door-all in the time it took me to put my key in the lock...it makes my heart melt. She is trying. And she is trying..