CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: VickiAndrews on February 21, 2017, 11:19:51 AM
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Please could I have more advice about Riley, our wcs, who is now 10 months old? At home he has become much nicer, wanting cuddles and generally being a nice boy. On his off lead walks, however, he has become a >:D and I am at my wits end. MY husband doesn't get so upset but it just ruins me. The problem is that he will NOT respond to the whistle on his walks. He chases after every dog he sees and just refuses to return to us. This morning he went off with another dog owner, who kindly brought him back to me. I have to say that I then frog-marched Riley back to the car and brought him home, after only a fifteen minute outing and I have put him to bed while I cool off. Perhaps this isn't the best way to deal with him but I keep thinking that he could so easily be taken if he behaves like this. It's fear making me go over the top! We have trained him to the whistle ever since he was tiny and, at home, or in a controlled environment, he comes back every time. On his walks he just ignores the whistle and us totally. I suppose we will have to start the whistle training again and lead walk him until we can trust him, but will we ever be able to trust him? I'll need to get the whistle out of the rubbish bin, I suppose! At the moment, if someone said they would like him, they could have him!!!! HELP, please.
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This is EXACTLY what happened with Henry at the same age. If you carry on using the whistle now, when he has self-rewarded himself for ignoring it, it will entirely lose its effectiveness. The advice I was given was to stop using the whistle when I knew Henry would ignore it. He went back on the lead, and the longline for training in areas where I could let him run around and call him back.
He's 18 months now and still on the lead a lot of the time. But that's okay. Deciding to put him on the lead and make walks into training opportunities (but with lots of fun and rewards) lowered my blood pressure right down and allowed me to rebuild my relationship with Henry, which was getting strained.
Henry will be back off lead when he's ready. I do miss the happy days of middle puppyhood when he pootled along near by, galloping back when I called him. I don't miss standing in the park, heart in mouth and blood boiling as he disappeared in the far distance.
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Oh those teenage years :005:
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Thanks Londongirl. I'm at my wits' end, really! What long lead would you recommend, please. We haven't used one before. Perhaps if I order one from Amazon it will come tomorrow. As I swore this morning that I would never take him off the lead again, I guess this is the only option!
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I have this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0170M7D7I/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It's great in open spaces, I like the handle but you should really let it trail rather than using it like an extra long lead (something I've been guilty of). When H is on the long line, we do lots of recall games with different cues (whistle, or a hand touch or bringing me the ball). We also play games with sit and down, because even those basic commands go awol at this age! We also do some scent work where I sprinkle crumbled biscuits into the grass for him to find.
When he goes back on the lead, it's a longer one (6 feet) so he can snuffle in the bushes and verges as we go.
One thing I've learned is that a busy 45 minutes of doing interesting things is just as good for H as 90 minutes of running around like a loon.
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Thanks so much. I've ordered it.
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Have you had a look at the pin on here on recall training? I found it really helpful. Agree absolutely with Londongirl - its vital not to use the whistle in the early stages unless you're 99.9% certain he'll come back. Might be an idea to leave it off for a little while and then start again from scratch using the long lead. BIG rewards and :banana: when he does come back and try not to get too disheartened when he doesn't (easier said than done, I know). Also, - (if you're training without the lead) - try not to just call him back when he has to go on the lead, so that he doesn't have a reason not to come back.. Another tip I had was to always finish on a positive not (also not easy), - so if he's misbehaved on a walk, make him do something he can do (sit, stay, give paw - whatever) so that you can praise him.
Best of luck!!! ;)
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Thanks. His recall used to be really good but now it's useless and, yes, I am despairing. It's totally ruined my day!
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I highly recommend Total Recall by Pippa Mattinson. It is a brilliant book for owners like yourself who are struggling with recall.
WCS can be a pain at times with recall. Yesterday I took Millie on a new country walk. At the halfway point there was a lovely large field, perfect for a worker to hunt in. But on my way back she ducked under a fence, ran across a large field, over a ditch and through a hedge into another field (there was no livestock about or she would have never been off lead) She was out of sight but I could mark her progress by watching the birds flying into the air. I did not blow my whistle because I thought that there was a good chance of it being ignored. Finally she reappeared and only then did I whistle.
The mistake I made was not realising she had gone over her threshold whilst hunting in the field earlier in the walk.
I would definitely have a look at Total Recall, it explains so much when it comes to recall.
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Sorry double post.
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Thanks very much. Book ordered!
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Oh dear i'm dreading when my puppy gets to this age and ignores me. I can't offer any advice as I have not experienced it as of yet but I am reading the responses in prep for when mine decides to do the same.
Mine is only 4 months so he likes to stay very close to me, but I can already see his confidence rising so i'm sure its only a matter of time before he decides to dash off.
Good luck with it all
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Does he like a ball. ??
I initially trained and indeed still maintain recall by blowing recall "as" she brings her ball back, which is often as she is ball obsessed 😊 I believe the theory is to associate the command ie recall when the behaviour is already offered.
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Nothing to add except my complete sympathy. Blue has gone exactly the same way, and he's also 10 months old, so I definitely think it's just adolescence. Blue's also gone back on the lead, following an incident involving sheep. I'm working through the Pippa Mattinson book. He's also booked in for a session with a behaviourist in March.
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This thread is exactly why i love COL :luv:
...and Vicki you will be the person giving
good sound advice once you and Riley have
cracked it!
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Oh dear i'm dreading when my puppy gets to this age and ignores me. I can't offer any advice as I have not experienced it as of yet but I am reading the responses in prep for when mine decides to do the same.
Mine is only 4 months so he likes to stay very close to me, but I can already see his confidence rising so i'm sure its only a matter of time before he decides to dash off.
Good luck with it all
You have the advantage in that by reading everything on here you can (try) to prepare for it before it happens! The way it was explained to me, once they start to run off, the adrenalin gets going and they experience it like a high and keep wanting to do it again (particularly if they're chasing something), so if you can train a good recall discipline early, before that happens, then it makes things a lot easier in the future. We made it THE priority because we,re surrounded by livestock and wildlife and hunters, - at the first sign of trouble, we bought a long lead and he stayed on that until we were confident he understood the boundary. Not saying he'll never do it - Humphrey's full of surprises! - but so far, we've been lucky.
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Well, we have been training his recall since he was tiny and it has worked. But not any more. I'm close to giving up on him as I don't think we're cut out to be cocker owners!
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Don't give up! We've all been there, honestly, and tomorrow's another day! They are challenging little wotsits, but the rewards WHEN they do things right make up for it all and make you feel all the more proud of them! Count the successes, go and poor yourself a cuppa (or something stronger), let yourself have a cocker cuddle and look forward to a new day!!!
And remember, you're not on your own, there are always lots of sympathetic ears here!! .. ;)
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Please don't give up. Your pup is just at THAT age where he is becoming deaf to everything. Many on here have been through this stage, and with the help of a glass of wine (or three) emerged relatively unscathed at the end.
As a previous poster mentioned, a ball can be such a useful tool for keeping your dog close. Millie will not move more than 10 yards away from me if she knows that I have a ball in my pocket. In fact, it can be awkward at times when I want to practice recall or the stop whistle because she will not move any distance away from me. It is only when I haven't got a ball that I have problems.
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When Herny was 10 months old, I would have happily put him out for the bin men to take if there wasn't a law against it. It's not you, it's him. And every other cocker that's 10 months old. I was just the same as you, we had perfect recall, everything was going swimmingly, and then he hit 'that age'. Just like everything else in life, it passes.
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Thanks again. I have to say that I took an aspirin and went to bed for two hours while my husband dealt with Riley. Unfortunately he takes no notice of the ball on his walks! I'm going to go back to square one with the training. Otherwise, I shall certainly befriend the bin men! Thank goodness it's nearly g and t time!
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:clapdance: that's the spirit! ('Scuse the pun :005:)
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Indeed! Riley loves g and t coated ice cubes!
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Have you tried taking wine on your walks? Just start drinking when he buggers off and at some point during the walk he will return out of curiosity when you can no longer pronounce his name. :005: :005:
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That's it! The cure to the problem! Thanks!
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Have you tried taking wine on your walks? Just start drinking when he buggers off and at some point during the walk he will return out of curiosity when you can no longer pronounce his name. :005: :005:
I like the idea in principle, will a hip flask of scotch work in the same way ?
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Maybe!
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Nothing to add either except you're not alone. Maisie is also 10 months and turned into a whirling dervish on the lead. Still love her to bits though :005: :005: