CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: nickyshep on June 17, 2008, 09:52:40 PM
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I've got a 17month old golden working cocker called Mitch and I know its in his breeding and his age but he is getting more and more excitable, marking his territory and not being very responsive to me at Agility training. They asked me how old he was and suggested I should get him done! (my words not theirs) and they did give me all the fors to having it done. I would like him to carry on with his Agility but at the minute we seem to have hit a brick wall as he seems to not want to jump that much, he gets a bit bored and runs sniffing round the field!! Its only been in the last 2 weeks he's been doing it because up until then he's been brill apart from the weaves and I know he can do it, its great and I know he really enjoys it too. When I suggested putting him for stud they said because he's not working and a family pet it would mix all the genes and everything about, he has got an excellent pedigree from his papers but it was suggested it would change him if we gave him a bite of the cherry so to speak as he would always be looking for it, which I think it would really get on my nerves.
I would be grateful for anyones views on this as I would welcome any advice.
Thanks
Nicky
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i personally would not let him do it either? and i wouldnt breed from a dog that wasnt a field champ himself iyswim, there is a new method out which invloves a micro chip like thing which has the effect of castration on the dog and can be reversed, hes reaching the age now of full maturity now too, does he show any other signs that you may think would stop with snipping his bits off? aggression, humping that sort of stuff?
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Nicky - I sympathise with your agility experience; spaniels of both genders, entire and neutered, can be a challenge; I have struggled with both of mine (one entire dog, and one spayed bitch ;))
I agree with the comments made about not using a pet dog for stud (it can change their outlook on life, and only the most exceptional examples of the breed in terms of health, temperament and conformity/skill should be used in breeding programmes) - I am not as keen on the "chop 'em off" approach as some ;).
Keep working on the bond between you, and in the long term, weeks or months, he is likely to refocus on you whether or not he is castrated :D
I never thought I'd get to the stage when I could take Molo to a unfamiliar grass course, and run him without fault at a display; he was too keen on finding scents to follow - but we did a few weeks ago, after nearly two years of practice, and I was SOOO proud of him :D
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I await the hammers :lol2: But in my opinion I think it borders on cruelty to keep a male entire if he actively comes in contact with lots of other dogs. Plain and simple :D
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I await the hammers :lol2: But in my opinion I think it borders on cruelty to keep a male entire if he actively comes in contact with lots of other dogs. Plain and simple :D
Really? I thought you were planning to show Otter? :huh:
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I await the hammers :lol2: But in my opinion I think it borders on cruelty to keep a male entire if he actively comes in contact with lots of other dogs. Plain and simple :D
Really? I thought you were planning to show Otter? :huh:
I thought I was planning on showing him too but I believe you cant if their done :'( Such a shame :005:
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I await the hammers :lol2: But in my opinion I think it borders on cruelty to keep a male entire if he actively comes in contact with lots of other dogs. Plain and simple :D
Really? I thought you were planning to show Otter? :huh:
I thought I was planning on showing him too but I believe you cant if their done :'( Such a shame :005:
I think you can but you just need to get permission form the Kennel Club (To show them)
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I await the hammers :lol2: But in my opinion I think it borders on cruelty to keep a male entire if he actively comes in contact with lots of other dogs. Plain and simple :D
Really? I thought you were planning to show Otter? :huh:
I thought I was planning on showing him too but I believe you cant if their done :'( Such a shame :005:
I think you can but you just need to get permission form the Kennel Club (To show them)
Its ok as im not going down that route with Otter, for me to show him id have to wait about 3 years as im showing at crufts in the gamekeepers class's and the dog has to have worked for the past season and for Otter that will be quite a way off. I am however showing Belle (who is spayed but was done for health reasons) and a friend of mine's dogs who are all entire :D
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You don't need permission to show a neutered dog - you just need to inform the KC (there's a form on their website) & that's it. A friend of mine used to show a neutered Gordon Setter and even won a CC with him but it isn't easy showing a neutered male - much easier showing a spayed bitch (unless a coated breed) as the neutering isn't obvious.
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You don't need permission to show a neutered dog - you just need to inform the KC (there's a form on their website) & that's it. A friend of mine used to show a neutered Gordon Setter and even won a CC with him but it isn't easy showing a neutered male - much easier showing a spayed bitch (unless a coated breed) as the neutering isn't obvious.
Thanks for that Jane :shades:
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Robbie was castrated due to health problems and we informed the Kennel Club who gave us a letter to show any judge, etc that we had informed the KC and we had permission. Unfortuneatly Robbie's coat blew after being castrated and we had to stop showing him :'(
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I agree that it would be cruel to regularly expose any dog to any situation that cause them to be stressed or anxious.
I'm sure that anyone with experience of a wide range of dogs would agree that not all entire males are a mass of uncontrollable hormones, though :-\
I (unsurprisingly, as I own an entire dog) do not agree that it is cruel to leave a dog entire, it depends on the dog and their reactions to varying circumstances. The medical benefits of castration are not yet established and there is some evidence which suggests that it may actually increase the risk of some diseases :-\
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I've got a 17month old golden working cocker called Mitch and I know its in his breeding and his age but he is getting more and more excitable, marking his territory and not being very responsive to me at Agility training.
Why do you want to breed him though.
It sounds like if he's like this now he may be worse if you do put him to stud but also you may be only able to put him to stud with people who are backyard breeders etc. (people who just flood the market with substandard dogs that could easily end up in rescue or worse) as a breeder who looks it breeding properly will not consider your dog at all because of his background
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Id get him done and both carry on and enjoy your agility :shades: When im at a shoot Goose my eldest male Lab (Castrated) has not one once of inclination to wander off to sniff pee or the girls and mingles with them all and is happy having fun without alarm signs going off in his brain :lol2: . The entire males at a shoot are a ruddy pest >:( Being on the recieving end of entire male dogs bitching after Belle and dragging her to the ground is enough for me im afraid :D Otter my youngest male Lab is still entire, he is 8 months and is slowly starting to show interest in the girls and as I have been advised to wait till he is at least 14 months old to have him done (due to his big bone structure) but if he is becoming a handful then he will have to be done earlier possibly :D
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Thanks for you're advice, I really do appreciate it, I think I had almost made up my mind about it but it is always useful to get some advice from people who know and that I am grateful for being the novice that I am.
I will let you know how I get on and you never know we could be at Crufts competing one day :lol2:
Nicky
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I do agility with my girls (both have been spayed) and they have weeks where everything else is far more interesting than me ph34r
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Ironically (head above parapet) we have an entire male doing agility who sniffs the least of my three show cockers. Dylan has never (touch wood) gone off on a scent however Charlie (castrated dead on 6 months) is the most sniffy distracted dog I know although not so much bitches but burgers and rabbit poo!!!!!
It is still a personal choice and castration may help but re the wandering off I would work on really short 2-3 jumps and a big reward to start building up concentration and focus again - lots of straight lines and straight forward work can sometimes work wonders if there is a big reward at the end!! BUT this is only my opinion and there are many a lot more experienced than me!!
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I've never seen an agility dog go off after the girls, but there are no in-season bitches allowed at training or demos ;) I didn't realise they were allowed on shoots - what a nightmare ph34r
I have seen loads of (mainly ABC) agility dogs, including mine ::), bog-off halfway around the course to sniff at poo (from various species), say hi to other dogs and/or people, find the food stands or run willy-nilly across the course having the time of their life :lol2:
imo and experience, neutering will make not one jot of difference to this - patience, time and loads of enthusiasm is the most reliable way of keeping your dogs focus in any discipline ;)
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I agree that it would be cruel to regularly expose any dog to any situation that cause them to be stressed or anxious.
I'm sure that anyone with experience of a wide range of dogs would agree that not all entire males are a mass of uncontrollable hormones, though :-\
I (unsurprisingly, as I own an entire dog) do not agree that it is cruel to leave a dog entire, it depends on the dog and their reactions to varying circumstances. The medical benefits of castration are not yet established and there is some evidence which suggests that it may actually increase the risk of some diseases :-\
agree unsurprisingly 100 percent. I find the assumption that by keeping my dog entire that it is cruel is a little insulting. Owners of entire dogs that I know go to lengths to ensure that our dogs are not in contact with in-season bitches to avoid any stress to the dog, and 99 percent of the time I can happily mix my dog with any other dog.
Also Rosie and Cob-web have said it depends on the individual dog - not every entire dog shows interest as Rosie has described above.
Most of the dogs on the shoots I go on are entire, and hand on heart I've never seen any problems as Dunbarney has described :huh: even with stud dogs. Some bitches definitely do smell irresistable in or out of season, and in this case I would strongly consider spaying the bitch.
As for OP, it's an entirely personal decision based on your own research and requirements of your dog. Although I don't agree that only FT CH's should be breeding (popular sire syndrome comes to mind) I do agree that a dog should be a proven worker amongst other variables (ie health testing) before even considering breeding.
Not every dog that sires a litter becomes a sex pest, but a lot do - and I would seriously consider this scenario if you do consider using him as a stud. And neutering is definitely not a cure-all for any behavioural issues.
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I've never seen an agility dog go off after the girls, but there are no in-season bitches allowed at training or demos ;) I didn't realise they were allowed on shoots - what a nightmare ph34r
Didnt you, well your right they dont :lol2:
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I've never seen an agility dog go off after the girls, but there are no in-season bitches allowed at training or demos ;) I didn't realise they were allowed on shoots - what a nightmare ph34r
Didnt you, well your right they dont :lol2:
OK, I'm officially confused now ph34r :lol2: :huh:
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I've never seen an agility dog go off after the girls, but there are no in-season bitches allowed at training or demos ;) I didn't realise they were allowed on shoots - what a nightmare ph34r
Didnt you, well your right they dont :lol2:
OK, I'm officially confused now ph34r :lol2: :huh:
Ill let you work it out, you know loads more than me ;)
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I work an entire stud dog on shoots, but he has to be managed carefully. During drives when he is beating and he has pheasant up his nose he is fine and ignores the other dogs. When he is retrieving at the end of the drive he is great - he has a job to do. But in between drives when some dogs and bitches are just left to mooch around the game cart while their owners partake of coffee (or something stronger), I make sure that he is back in the vehicle or at least on a lead, because he can be a b....r!
John
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But in between drives when some dogs and bitches are just left to mooch around the game cart while their owners partake of coffee (or something stronger), I make sure that he is back in the vehicle or at least on a lead, because he can be a b....r!
John
I wish they were all like you John :shades: I shut Belle in my Van at these times for her own and my sanity :005: She is very appealing to "Some dogs" even though she has been spayed for 4 years :D