Is this a working or show cocker?

[lisalh]

So the pedigree papers are meaningless? It was like a family tree with lots of weird names. I'm showing my lack of knowledge and experience here aren't I?  Am I right in thinking that a working spaniel wouldn't have that much fur around the feet and that length of ear tho. I'd like to think that I have learnt a little by researching the working cocker....

My boy is a pedigree registered working cocker and he has very hairy 'hobbit' feet and also has long ears, my girl is also a working cocker and yet has a completely different coat and facial structure

[Nicola]

That dog looks more like a show Cocker although its not a great photo to tell from; his face and head shape and low set ears look show type. In any case it doesn't sound like a reputable breeder though, any good breeder will only breed from KC registered dogs and will make it very clear what type of dogs they are breeding and their reasons for doing so, i.e. what makes their dog good enough to breed from, just being a nice pet isn't a good enough reason. They should also show you health test certificates, Cockers should be DNA tested for eye and kidney disease and clinically eye tested before being bred from, this is different to just being checked over by a normal vet.

[JeffD]

Walk away, find a good breeder of working cockers,  you will not pay much more and you will have peace of mind and in the long term possibly save a fortune on vet bills. I would be very surprised if the sire is working cocker he looks very show to me.

You have not said why you want a working cocker are you going to train for use as a gundog or will the pup just be a pet.

[supergirl]

Please don't take the fact that because a litter is KC registered (or even the parents for that matter are KC registered) that the breeder is reputable or has carried out relevent health tests.  KC registration is meaningless without health testing and is purely a list of parentage whether they are good or bad.

My first cocker was KC registered as were her parents, coming from good show lines, however she died before she was a year old from Familial Nephritus (FN) which was something that Show cockers were prone to (not so common now due to health testing).  I realise that you want a working cocker but I think that this is relevant to all cockers.

[lallen]

Walk away, find a good breeder of working cockers,  you will not pay much more and you will have peace of mind and in the long term possibly save a fortune on vet bills. I would be very surprised if the sire is working cocker he looks very show to me.

You have not said why you want a working cocker are you going to train for use as a gundog or will the pup just be a pet.

My preference for a working cocker is based on the look of the dog, which I like and that i am led to believe, rightly or wrongly, that the dogs coat will be more manageable than a show cocker. My husband and I go on regular 10-15 mile walks through the countryside and a show coat would be difficult to maintain. It seems the general consensus is that the stud is a show dog! My instinct was right?

[JeffD]

Nothing wrong with wanting a worker just as a companion but please do the research on workers some of them need a lot of training and brain work, exercise alone is not enough for these dogs. As puppies some can be testing to say the least for the first 12 months  A worker left to its own devices on a 10 mile walk through the countryside will learn to self hunt and be a complete pain unless recall is 110% installed first.

I am not trying to put you off as I believe them to be wonderful dogs but you do need to know what you are possibly taking on.

I wish you good luck in your search and hope you find the pup you are looking for.

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

Nothing to add to what has already been said, except I agree.

But in future, if on a pedigree, you see ShC - it's show champ (Show cocker), FtCh - Field Trial Champ - (working cocker)

[jonnytrabant]

I think the fact your asking the forum and not the breeder whether he's a worker tells it all, a dog is a huge commitment and it has to be right for you 100%, any doubt walk away. We went 10 years in between having another dog, we'd previously had a Cavvie and nothing prepares you of the upheaval on your lives when a new dog arrives.

If, like us you want a Worker then go to a breeder with documentitive proof, as for the photo I think he could be a cross with a show and a worker.

[lallen]

I think the fact your asking the forum and not the breeder whether he's a worker tells it all, a dog is a huge commitment and it has to be right for you 100%, any doubt walk away. We went 10 years in between having another dog, we'd previously had a Cavvie and nothing prepares you of the upheaval on your lives when a new dog arrives.

If, like us you want a Worker then go to a breeder with documentitive proof, as for the photo I think he could be a cross with a show and a worker.

Thanks for your advice. I know it is a big commitment and believe me, I have been thinking this through for months and manage at times to talk myself both in and out of getting a dog. I sometimes over think decisions and sometimes it is good and sometimes bad because I end up taking the easy route by doing nothing.

I did ask the breeder about the stud when he showed me the photo. He was adamant that it was a working cocker. I left a deposit then after a couple of days of 'thinking' again I asked him to email me the photo. Once again I asked if it was a working cocker only to be told again that it was and that it had working cocker bloodlines. Even if it was kc registered, who's to say he hasn't used Fred Bloggs cocker down the road. Perhaps, I should put even more research into this before i commit? Years ago, a dog was just a dog. It's so complicated now!

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

I think the fact your asking the forum and not the breeder whether he's a worker tells it all, a dog is a huge commitment and it has to be right for you 100%, any doubt walk away. We went 10 years in between having another dog, we'd previously had a Cavvie and nothing prepares you of the upheaval on your lives when a new dog arrives.

If, like us you want a Worker then go to a breeder with documentitive proof, as for the photo I think he could be a cross with a show and a worker.

Thanks for your advice. I know it is a big commitment and believe me, I have been thinking this through for months and manage at times to talk myself both in and out of getting a dog. I sometimes over think decisions and sometimes it is good and sometimes bad because I end up taking the easy route by doing nothing.

I did ask the breeder about the stud when he showed me the photo. He was adamant that it was a working cocker. I left a deposit then after a couple of days of 'thinking' again I asked him to email me the photo. Once again I asked if it was a working cocker only to be told again that it was and that it had working cocker bloodlines. Even if it was kc registered, who's to say he hasn't used Fred Bloggs cocker down the road. Perhaps, I should put even more research into this before i commit? Years ago, a dog was just a dog. It's so complicated now!

But even still, you might get a 'reasonable' breeder do that. I'm sure the 'excellent' breeders wouldn't do it. If you did find a breeder, you could always ask on here about their name and see if anyone had experiences with them? Or if you say where you are people might can recommend breeders to go to?

[Pearly]

Do you have a local gun dog trainer? Most will know local kennels of working cockers plus be able to help you with training in the early days.  As others have said working cokers are not just high energy but highly intelligent and need a lot of mental stimulus as well as exercise.

For that reason I have a show cocker and yes, her coat needs grooming but I keep her short and have a matt buster that sorts out most bits of bramble or twig! Although our walks are more like 6-8 miles I'm sure if she was fitter (and me  ) then she would walk further!

The gun dog trainer may well know the sire and in fact, are likely to be able to tell you the temperament and energy level of the litter.

Good luck with your search

[lallen]

Do you have a local gun dog trainer? Most will know local kennels of working cockers plus be able to help you with training in the early days.  As others have said working cokers are not just high energy but highly intelligent and need a lot of mental stimulus as well as exercise.

For that reason I have a show cocker and yes, her coat needs grooming but I keep her short and have a matt buster that sorts out most bits of bramble or twig! Although our walks are more like 6-8 miles I'm sure if she was fitter (and me  ) then she would walk further!

The gun dog trainer may well know the sire and in fact, are likely to be able to tell you the temperament and energy level of the litter.

Good luck with your search

Yes. There is a gun dog training club a few miles from me. Thank-you. I will contact them for more information. I don't if this means anything to anyone but he gave me a receipt with a name on it - KENINE DREAM - i don't know if this applies to the stud or the bitch. I am presuming the bitch? Since contacting him regarding my concerns that the stud is not a worker he has ignored my email where previously he replied straight away, and not replied. Some people!

[supergirl]

Probably the name of the pup - as that's what you left a deposit for.

[Helen]

Kenine is an affix assigned by the Kennel Club for a particular year  - Kennel Club has rules about what names can be used - eg you can't use brand names, words that are a breeder's registered affix, or names over a certain number of letters. When you register a puppy, you give a preferred name and an alternative name. If neither are permitted, you can opt for the Kennel Club to choose a name for you. If they do this they use one of their own affixes - a different one each year, and Kenine is one of those.    So in that particular year there could be hundreds of pups of different breeds with that affix.  I think they rotate the affixes and this one was used in 2009 so would make the dam 5 years old which is probably right.

Did the breeder tell you why, if the dam and sire are both KC registered, that he is not registering the litter?

[lallen]

Probably the name of the pup - as that's what you left a deposit for.

Don't think so. He had named the pup after one of the seven dwarfs..................... he obviously has something to hide or he would have emailed back with a response. If I were him and I had nothing to hide i would be mortified if someone accused me of wrong doing and argue my case. I think show cocker stud hit the nail right on the head!