Author Topic: Aggression towards other dogs  (Read 2674 times)

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Offline Paul R

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Aggression towards other dogs
« on: January 01, 2020, 05:04:33 PM »
Good afternoon,
Thanks for adding me to your group.  This is my first post, I appreciate that there are a few posts about aggression but I’d like your feedback.

Lillie, our two year old Cocker Spaniel bitch is from working stock.  We moved to the Lake District from Derbyshire when she was about 7 months old, she lives with us and our 13 year old Yellow Labrador.

She was well socialised and mixed well until she fell ill due to suspected poisoning from the blue/green algae in Derwentwater.  After recovery she was extremely nervous and attacked any dog that came near.  We had advice from a very good, qualified dog behaviourist and using his techniques we tried to overcome the aggression but without success.

Approximately three months ago I got upset and shouted aggressively at her and the shock had an effect.  She almost overnight she started approaching dogs again, I could let her off the lead and she’d be happy around other dogs. Could this be coincidental?

However as quickly as she stopped the aggression she started again but worse.

Please does anyone have anyone have any advice?

Thank you for reading




Offline its.sme

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Re: Aggression towards other dogs
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2020, 07:01:44 PM »
Welcome to the group, I'm sure there will be plenty of help and advise on it's way,
Bea's temperament changes when she is unwell so I think a good check up at the vets would be a good place to start, it could also be a food thing,  what is she fed on ?

Offline Paul R

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Re: Aggression towards other dogs
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2020, 07:39:01 PM »
Thanks so much for your reply.  I’ll certainly revisit the vets, I agree she needs a thorough check up.

In terms of her food, good question.  She’s never been interested in food, treats etc we’ve tried her on every dry food. We feed her and if she doesn’t eat within 15 minutes we remove it. 
We’ve spoken to both the vets and behaviourist and they weren’t  concerned.  But again maybe worth revisiting.

Thanks
Paul

Offline Gazrob

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Re: Aggression towards other dogs
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2020, 10:56:00 AM »
I think it's just one of those things. My Marley gets a little aggressive with some dogs but not all dogs. I don't think you will be able to stop it completely. Try and keep your dog away from other dogs as much as you can but I think it's inevitable you are going to run into problems now and again.

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Aggression towards other dogs
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2020, 03:19:36 PM »
Hi! I‘ve never had bitches but just wondered if it could be hormone related?
Humphrey has become more intolerant towards some dogs as he‘s got older but I think its actually down to a number of things, one being age and reaching maturity.
I would suggest trying to analyse each incident  and see if you can pinpoint the circumstances that triggered the aggression - how did the other dog approach your dog? head on or from the side? Was he/she on or off the lead? How far /near were you away from your dog (might she be protecting you or your other dog?) Do you get the feeling she’s maybe intimidated by the other dog (fear aggression), has she ever been attacked by another dog?
Its not a bad idea to try and familiarize yourself with her body language, it might give you a clue as to what triggers the incidents so that you can try and work out a strategy. Don‘t worry too much about having shouted at her, cockers are  indeed quite sensitive but I doubt if one incident would have made that much difference, we all lose our patience now and again but remember that if you tell her off for growling or giving a warning to another dog or person that she‘s unhappy with the situation, then you‘re effectively stopping her from communicating, so next time she won’t bother to give a warning but will go straight into attack. (A bit of info which I only recently acquired and really really wish I‘d realized it earlier!!) If she‘s snarling, growling etc, far better to take her out of the situation, reassure her you have the situation in hand and if necessary put yourself between her and the other dog.  If she and the other dog are on the lead, try to avoid a head to head approach, you can make a wide circle or turn around while letting the other dog pass. Praise and reward every peaceful contact.
Humphrey seems to become a bit overwhelmed by too many dogs as he‘s got older, particularly after a couple of bad attacks, and since being castrated this summer, he’s definately more nervous (which results in the „all mouth no trousers“ reaction! >:( ) so I try to limit any interactions to one or two other dogs who I know he gets on with and avoid any bigger, male dogs particularly if they’re entire and I never let him loose with any dog I don’t know until I’ve spoken to the handler first.
As others have said however, I think a health check would be a good start, - just incase!
Best of luck!



Offline Paul R

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Re: Aggression towards other dogs
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2020, 04:55:50 PM »
Thank you so much for all your extremely helpful feedback.  There’s a lot to take in but that’s great as it gives me a lot to go on.
I’ll update as I go, thank you once again

Offline rubyduby

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Re: Aggression towards other dogs
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2020, 09:06:00 AM »
Its unlikely but possible that thyroid issues may be in play here, hypothyridism can cause aggression, altho it usually comes with other issues such as, skin problems, hair loss, weight etc....it is frequently verlooked by vets and is very common tho often not diagnosed, altho unlikely in a very young dog still possible,  the other possibility is some form of internal caused by the algae, neurological, brain tumour, all can be hidden causes..

Offline Paul R

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Re: Aggression towards other dogs
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2020, 09:28:39 AM »
That’s really helpful, thank you.

I’m hoping to get to the vets this week, depending on the feedback I’ll bring these points up.

Again thank you so much

Offline Ben's mum

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Re: Aggression towards other dogs
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2020, 08:51:19 AM »
Hi Paul welcome to COL. 
I wondered if you have been in touch with Top Barks for advice? He is a member on here but not on as often now as he is so busy.  He has helped a lot of us with complex issues, he is a behaviourist but with masses of experience with cockers.  I don't know what other people think but I have found cockers to be a complex mix of behaviours with fear aggression, guarding and being sensitive and needy - all alongside all the good points they have.  Both my husband and I have lived with different dog breeds over the years, but find cockers another world completely - having said that I wouldn't have anything else now! 
My Harry has fear aggression with other dogs (he was a rescue) and it can be very hard to tell if he is going to approach and play nicely with other dogs, or if he is going to go for them and be aggressive, it is quite difficult to read his body language.  He also guards me quite a lot, so sometimes his behaviour of being aggressive to other dogs is his anxiety and wanting to guard me!

hope you get some answers

Offline Paul R

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Re: Aggression towards other dogs
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2020, 10:25:34 AM »
Wow, that certainly sounds like Lillie, a complex but adorable dog.  As you say I don’t know if she’s nervous, protective or something else. And as she can go up to some dogs and be gentle and then walk away happy others she wants to attack from many feet away without any reasoning.

Sorry to ask but how do I make contact with Top Barks as Id certainly like to discuss this further.

Thanks again

Paul

Offline Ben's mum

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Re: Aggression towards other dogs
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2020, 06:27:16 PM »
Don't be put off by the fact Mark is in York, we travelled from Derbyshire to see him and it was worth it, he also came to where I work to see Harry's guarding in action.  He has massive experience with gundogs and I think that is important, before I came on here and was reccomended to him I had used another behaviourist who was nice, but who told me I had an 'agressive' dog.  If he is too far from you he will probably know of another spaniel person closer to you, and it is important to have someone who understands how these dogs tick !


www.topbarksfordogs.co.uk

Offline Paul R

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Re: Aggression towards other dogs
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2020, 06:30:08 PM »
Distance isn’t a problem, we’ll travel anywhere to get the right support. I’ll make contact and let you know how we get on- thanks again

Offline Digger

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Re: Aggression towards other dogs
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2020, 03:13:29 PM »
Hi there.
I also have a two year old working cocker bitch. She too can display aggressive behaviour to some other dogs.
Like yours, ours was heavily socialised from day one and didn't have any problems for the first year or so, but now she will have a right go at some, not all dogs. I have concluded:
-She is from a long line of ft champions who were just workers-not pets and so is very highly strung (she's been hard work).
-She has the cocker guarding tendency.
-She had quite a few bad experiences in early life (got attacked quite badly by a cockerpoo when she was tiny and has had all manner of rumbles and nips since)
-She is now a pretty confident 'adult' who knows her own mind.

I think all of these things come into play. I find that she will now decide who she thinks is appropriate company, and if you are rude, jump all over her (or me) or come near her ball without invitation, she will let you know. I also think that these types of cockers are not stupid-they know they are small, so they feel the need to make a bigger, scarier noise to get their point across.
Don't get me wrong, my dog actually has lots of friends, some of which she is even happy to share her balls with, but they are dogs that she knows and trusts and they always greet each other politely every time they meet. I also let other people's dogs into our house. It is my house after all.

Watching my dogs 'aggression' is interesting. If you stay calm and watch yours next time it does something you might see the same thing.. lots of noise, lunging towards the other dog, maybe even teeth out and mouth open, but if I look at mine, it is all done kind of sideways. I don't think there is any real intent. I've seen my dog catch things. If she wants to catch something in her mouth, she will not miss!!!
To me this is just a dog saying **** off out of my space ok?  Our dog has never bitten another dog and I don't think she would.

When I saw the first instance of this behaviour I must admit I was horrified but if you really look at it it does look much worse than it is.  I am lucky, as where I walk my dog is full of nice people who understand dogs, so I have had the 'opportunity' to bump into these dogs that she's not so keen on, repeatedly which has meant I've been able to really look at the behaviour.
 I have found that you can easily override it.
One dog she kept having a pop at was( jealousy in that case I think as Charlie the bichon frise/poodle first got it after I picked him up!). Next time they approached she started to have a go at him and I just interrupted her- just said 'hey' and called them both over, made them sit, and gave them both a biscuit. They then proceeded to spend ten minutes doing tricks together! Like a performing dog team.
There are others that she can be funny with but I now just interrupt it by asking for something different. In this way, and with the help of the other dog owners keeping their cool too, we have established who she's funny with and who she's not. Sometimes excitement can spill over into a form of aggression as well but with an interruption and on the odd occasion putting a lead on to show shes gone too far and is not in charge, it's all perfectly fine. There were 4or 5 Dogs that mine was funny with but it's all fine now-I just watch and if I see any signs I just just warn her to behave herself.

Sorry for the essay but it's quite a complex issue and in summary I think the key is to keep calm and stay in charge.
I would jump on my dog if I thought it was hurting someone else's pet but equally I think if you can manage the dogs off lead it is preferable to just immediately curtailing them both as this could make them act differently in itself. In our case, I think our dog is learning that even if she doesn't like a dog, there are other ways to behave around them and its not her job to go telling people off.  We ate all still off lead and all the dogs are fine with each other now, with a little reminding here and there from us hooomans!

Best of luck - I'm sure it'll all be good.