CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => General Cocker Spaniel Discussion => Topic started by: mcinnd on December 02, 2015, 11:51:50 AM
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This morning when walking Dolly and Silkie along our normal country walk we came across a woman who has two dogs, one a springer and the other a good sized tan cross breed.
A few weeks back I came across the same dogs but with a man and both attacked Silkie who is very submissive and wouldn't hurt any other dog.
Lucky Silkie was not hurt but did need some cuddling to get her back walking.
I did say to the man who ignored any comments that the two dogs should be at the very least on leaders.
As I said at the start we came across the two dogs this morning off the lead and they made a dash again for Silkie but I managed to get between both and gave the woman a sharp word to the effect that both her dogs would be severely injured if they attempted another attack.
I then had from her that both dogs were rescued with one from the local West Calder Dogs Trust, the springer and the other being a street dog from Portugal and that it was my fault.
I told her she was a stupid woman and walked on.
On my way back, yes I came across her again and put both Dolly and Silkie on leaders even though they walk to heel and under control.
She put the springer onto a leader but couldn't capture the tan cross breed which again charged hackles raised towards my girls.
I as any owner would do pushed the dog off with the outside of my right foot.
I held off from giving it a good kick only to be told that this street dog has an issue with males and that I've now put its training back months.
I was then threaten that her husband would give me a good beating if they came across me in future. I said, "he can try ".
Why do people have dogs that they can't control?
David
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Certainly a sorry tale David, it sounds like they have no respect for other people and there animals. I have come across this sort before and they think they have the right to do as they please. You done the right thing and I know you are angry but just forget them as they are not worth losing sleep over.
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I'm sorry you've had a bad incident...but you say your spaniel wasn't hurt at least. Dogs do a lot of shouting and swearing which sounds dreadful, I know.
As someone who has had a reactive rescue dog in the past can I also say it is difficult to second guess what they will do. The day after we took on a lab x he certainly hurled abuse at a huge collie, much to our horror. Luckily the owner didn't react aggressively (though the collie did) and we managed to get them to be friends after several meetings on the same walk.
Personally though I will ask owners to control their dogs or put them on a lead and maybe stop to talk if they are at all approachable I would never threaten injury to the dog that's causing me or mine trouble. It has a history that you can't possibly know about. In my view every dog is innocent- what's been done to it by people who've owned it, maybe not so much.
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I know Des had the same happen a few weeks back with a woman walking 2 "they're not pitbull" dogs. One flew at Bonnie to which the woman said oh she's the puppy and this is the mum so she's protecting her!! Des asked how she could be protecting her mum when Bonnie was miles away and the pit bull charged Bonnie? Des had to get between this huge dog and Bonnie and had to use his foot to keep the dog off her and the woman could not recall her dog. Poor Bons was screeching.
Same thing was asked as to why she didn't have a dog she couldn't control on a lead. The woman had no answer except that the puppy was protecting it's mum! She got very defensive at Des's suggestions ;) and stormed off.
There is no reasoning with some people. Glad Silkie was ok after bless her xx
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The problem is that people take on rescue dogs smugly thinking they're being very charitable but they're often totally out of their depths. A lot of these dogs make wonderful pets, our last dog was from a home and was lovely but there are also those with issues and they should only be handed over to people who understand how to deal with them. I do wonder if some of the rescue centers should ask a few more questions..........
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Well I certainly didn't take my dog on 'smugly' but I did want to give a needy dog a home. Rescues do ask questions in the main- I spend most weekends doing homechecks with a fact sheet longer than a Swiss visa application- but dogs aren't robots. They get anxious in a new place, need time to settle, need confident consistent owners. Make mistakes. In an ideal world every animal would only be handed over to people who understand how to deal with it...including puppies who are often sold to unsuitable homes with fewer questions asked than rescues do.
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Totally agree! Like the woman who let her jack Russell attack Dylan the first time out with his puppy paws on the ground. Four months later we are still working on his confidence that was totally shattered by the incident. Not to mention the people with bouncy Labradors who let them charge up to other dogs and jump all over them. I sometimes think people should pass a ,dog owning test, like a driving test before they are allowed to own a dog.. >:D
Lesley and Dylan
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Sorry Daw, that wasn't meant to be offensive at all, our posts crossed ,,mine was just a general remark but I did realize on re-reading, that I didn't spund very diplomatic! I'm still feeling a bit prickly about someone who recently criticised me for buying a dog from a breeder when there were homes full of dogs needing a home. I live in Germany and there is a flourishing business now with rescue dogs from all over Europe and it breaks my heart to see these poor broken animals end up with people who don't have a clue how to deal with them. Obviously GB has much better controls regarding the placement of the dogs, - a,pity its not the same here. Anyway, Its rather a different topic to where we started out, but I just needed to let off steam. >:D
Sorry! Hope I'm forgiven! ;)
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Would it be worth informing the a Dog Warden, there job is to educate on how to keep dogs safe, you might not be the only one the dogs have reacted to in this way?
Someone including a dog could get seriously hurt.
Hope everyone is ok mcinnd.
Sharon.
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Nothing to forgive from my side! I see it both ways...I've had my beautiful sweet boy who I've lost recently attacked by the farm dogs out on their own- I swore like a fishwife at them- and I've had my rescue dog get into it with a dog owned by an officer serving with the police armed response unit! (Luckily we weren't shot.) :blink:
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I know there is going to be a problem every time a dog approaches mine and the owner says 'be nice daisy'
You can almost guarantee that their dog will have a go.
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I have a fear reactive dog now as as a result of uncontrolled dogs being allowed to run over to us when we are walking. It has ruined our walks and places we wanted to visit because I now have to do a mental risk assessment before we can go anywhere safely. I think Maddie must be a very sensitive dog as others just manage to shake off the experience. That said, until you have a reactive dog you have no idea what it's like.
I do think there should be more education -posters, advertising etc to get dog owners to understand the need to keep their dogs under control. It seems to me that socialisation has gone too far and been mis-understood.
Hope your dogs are ok.
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Teal was attacked by a large black male lab last week, I knew it was going to kick off as the lab had his hackles raised 25 yards away, the owner made no attempt to reign the dog in, Teal tried to hold her own but was out sized by about 25 KGs, I separated them and the owner said he doesn't normally do that, yeah right I believe you. I told her if you cant control the dog keep it on a lead ( my language might have been a bit more colourful than that).
Two minutes later its hackles were up as it approached another dog, still running off lead and the owner paying no attention so I shouted at her again PUT THAT FFing thing on a lead or I am going to report you, but no she ambled on dog still off lead, it beggers belief.
Teal was fine and it has not effected her thankfully she still ignores other dogs unless they try to stop her hunting :D
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Update on issue.
I was out last night at my retirement dinner with my team, today 3rd December is my last day in work, and therefore it was Kim who walked the girls.
I also due to various issues at work that day did not call her and inform as to what happened on the morning walk.
Well Kim met the two dogs again both off the leader but with the male owner and she was subjected to quite some abuse and informed that his wife had reported me to the police.
I can't imagine why she felt the need to report me to the police when as stated in my initial post that it was her dogs who attacked and if they were to apply any charge it would be towards her in not being able to control her dogs.
Luckily there was not a further incident last night but as it's my job to walk the girls in the morning I took along with me my hazel staff that I used to assist me walking when recovering from my leg surgery in 2014 but fortunately for all we did not meet the woman or her dogs.
David
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Maybe time to bring this to the attention of the appropriate authorities yourself.
It seems these people haven't learned anything, still insist on walking their dogs off lead and have now stooped to acting in a threatening manner towards Kim.
About time they got "Educated" in their responsibilities as dog owners and as members of the public. ;)
Congrats on your imminent retirement, have a long, happy and healthy one :clapping:
Bob.
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The reason these dogs misbehave is NOT because they are rescue dogs.
It's because the owners have NO RESPECT for anyone else.
They the tail-gating drivers, the queue jumpers, the wife beaters and so on.
They will do it over and over until there is a major incident of some kind.
I lived next to one for a few years. We did not go in our garden if his boxer was out.
Mercifully he moved away. He was totally unable to realise that his attitude was wrong.
And yes, every walk, every dog, is a "risk-assessment".
I got it wrong last week.
A pretty looking working Cocker about the same age as mine caused me no worry.
But he picked a fight almost at once.
Being walked by a foreign scullery-maid with no idea what to do.
Fortunately dogs of this size are no problem to me.
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:birthday: and retirement, double reason to celebrate, hope you have a long and happy retirement. (I can thoroughly recommend the latter :D
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Maybe time to bring this to the attention of the appropriate authorities yourself.
It seems these people haven't learned anything, still insist on walking their dogs off lead and have now stooped to acting in a threatening manner towards Kim.
About time they got "Educated" in their responsibilities as dog owners and as members of the public. ;)
Congrats on your imminent retirement, have a long, happy and healthy one :clapping:
Bob.
Agree with Bon and Dot..
Millie has been attacked by two different off lead dogs in the last two consecutive weeks, one a lab x, the other a ginormous English Mastiff. Both owners said 'he/she won't bite' but M had been rolled over on both occasions. I grabbed the other dogs collars to pull them off: should have said that the dogs needed to be muzzled or they'd be reported to our local warden...
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Totally agree with Alan T. It's not the dog, be it a rescue or not, this is about owners who have no control over their dog. If they can't recall, control or are unsure how their dog will react to another dog, they should be on a lead or at least a long line. It's about being responsible for your dog and unfortunately there are too many people who just think they don't have to bother.
The OP mentioned about the woman ranting that her rescue dog had now been put back in the training they had done. What about those of us who have also spent months and years socialising and training our dogs only to have that totally ruined because now our dogs are terrified or become reactive to other dogs? Bonnie is very wary now of other dogs, she screeches or cowers now at approaching dogs, something that has only come about because of her experience with uncontrolled off lead dogs.
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Very sorry for all whose dogs have been attacked. As others have said, if you cannot be 100% sure how your dog will react - keep them on a lead until they are safe and trained. I would get little sympathy from the judge if I said "yes but its a rescued shotgun and sometimes it just goes off".
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Luckily, I haven't had to go through this (yet!) but it must be terrifying and every dog owners nightmare. Does anyone have any suggestions/tips about how to try and separate fighting dogs?.(apart from the obvious!!! :argue:) Sprays or whistles or something like that? Sorry if its a silly question, but maybe someone has an idea!
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I was taught by my lovely vet to grab the two back legs of the dog doing the attack and walk backwards as quickly as you can so the dog is like a wheelbarrow. I have done it once with our corgi x who had had a go at our resident spaniel the day he arrived and it did work - I walked him out into the garden and OH slammed the door. BUT I can't recommend it because when I told him it had been successful our vet laughed and said Good- never had the nerve to try it myself!
So maybe with a corgi-sized maniac- but a Great Dane?
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Certainly worth a try!
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That's a good idea.
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I was taught by my lovely vet to grab the two back legs of the dog doing the attack and walk backwards as quickly as you can so the dog is like a wheelbarrow. I have done it once with our corgi x who had had a go at our resident spaniel the day he arrived and it did work - I walked him out into the garden and OH slammed the door. BUT I can't recommend it because when I told him it had been successful our vet laughed and said Good- never had the nerve to try it myself!
So maybe with a corgi-sized maniac- but a Great Dane?
I tried this when Gemma got hold of our staffie. I found myself dragging Gemma who was dragging poppy by the lip >:D
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The old wisdom is to take off your coat and throw it over the attackers head.
( Betty Penn-Bull 1956).
I think this OK, but only if it does not have a firm hold on your dog.
If it's a small dog, like the infamous Jack Russell, I grab the collar and lift 'em up.
This worked fine last week with a bull-dog. But then I am quite tall and strong.
There are some breeds I just avoid all of them.
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I try and avoid certain breeds of dog too, but sometimes it is easier said than done.
Spaniels are one type of dog I always feel totally confident in approaching.
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I read somewhere about putting up an umbrella to keep dogs apart -but make sure your dog is conditioned to it first!