Feeding and Exercise Advice for a first time Cocker owner

[malcolm.joslyn]

Having had a variety of dog breeds in the past, mainly German Shepherds and English Springers (usually one of each at a time), I acquired a Working Cocker this year for the first time. I have found his character and temperament very different to any of my previous companions and would welcome some advice to ensure that I am giving him the best possible life. My main concerns are feeding and exercise requirements.
Feeding. Monty is now 10 months old, weighs 15 1/2 Kg and stands 18 inches at the shoulder. He has proved to be a reluctant feeder since I brought him home at 12 weeks. He shows little interest in food but I have found a diet that he will eat with some encouragement, but only after exercise. I have had conflicting advice regarding the quantity of food that he needs but have been working on a daily diet of 3% of his body weight (as recommended by Natures:Menu pet foods). His current feeding regime is two meals a day each comprising:- 100 grms  James Wellbeloved Junior Kibble + 100 grms Wainwrights tray feed + 50 grms Natures:Menu raw minced chicken. Is this OK for an active dog?
Exercise. My last Springer suffered from joint problems - knees during puppyhood which required corrective surgery and cruciate ligament troubles in later life that also required repair. I felt that this may have been due to excessive exercise when Pebbles was a puppy. Although the Vet assured me this was not the case I still have some doubts and would not wish to make a similar mistake with Monty. Question is how much exercise can a ten month old Working Cocker safely undertake? At the moment I walk him for 1 to 1 1/2 hours in the morning before his breakfast. This exercise is usually in woodland off the leash where he charges around like an express train without pause. In the late afternoon I take him for another hour around open fields, again off the leash where he is also constantly on the move. In addition to his free exercise I also spend half an hour or so on one to one obedience training or at a KC approved training class. Is this too much or too little exercise?
Any helpful comments would be greatly appreciated.

[PollySpaull]

Hello and welcome, I too have a Monty!

I can't help in terms of feeding as my Monty is fed a raw diet and they are all worked out differently. I'm sure someone more knowledgable will be along to offer advice shortly.

In terms of exercise, the general rule is 5 minutes of exercise for every month of the pups age, so your puppy should only really be getting 50 minutes a day roughly.  2 and a half hours of exercise per day is, in my opinion, far too much for a pup of his age. The problem with working cockers is that they will go and go and go!

Not much advice but hopefully the exercise part is helpful. 


Love from Polly and Monty!

[elaine.e]

Hello and welcome to COL

Cocker puppies, especially workers, often don't seem to have an off switch and will charge around far more than is good for them. As Polly has already said the rule of thumb for walking any puppy is about 5 minutes per month of age, although you can do that amount more than once a day. So at 10 months he should only really be having about 50 minutes at a time. The reason for limiting exercise is to avoid damaging joints and bones as the puppy grows and the growth plates gradually close. It might be best if you cut back on his off lead free running for a while yet.

When you're just at home and not doing anything is he good at relaxing? Cocker puppies are naturally lively and if they're doing lots of activities can become overstimulated and find it difficult to chill out. Sometimes it's a skill they have to be taught!

It's difficult having a dog that's not very interested in food, but if he looks well in himself then I wouldn't worry too much. I'm sure you know this as an experienced dog owner, but if he has a defined but not pronounced waist behind his ribs when viewed from above, and if you can feel his ribs but not readily see them, he's probably about right. I expect he's finished growing in terms of height but he'll take several more months, maybe another year, to reach his final mature size and shape. So you can expect him to go through phases of looking a bit gangly during that period.

[rubybella]

As with the others on the exercise, 2.5hrs is way too much for 10 month old! My Wcs gets a walk for no longer than 1.5hrs and she gets this once a day. They do need off lead time to burn off some of their energy but not that much!

I believe that the more exercise you give a dog, the more they need and expect. My dogs only ever have one walk a day, so they don't ever expect to have another! My Wcs could keep going for hours but she is used to a walk of about 1-1.5 hrs and doesn't expect or need anymore. She comes home and sleeps for the rest of the day, she doesn't bug me to do anything else. Whereas owners who believe their dogs need many hrs of daily walks will still find their dogs are buzzing and want more.

I think you could be setting yourself up for future problems if you don't reduce the walking now.

[malcolm.joslyn]

Very many thanks for your helpful comments. It would certainly seem that Monty is overdoing his exercise so I shall have to revise his schedule. Trouble is he is a very active little dog and seems to have a very low boredom threshold. He will chill out for short intervals (he is lying next to me in my study whilst I type this) but it won't be too long before he is looking for something to do. I like your suggestion Elaine that it would not do him any harm to have more than one exercise session each day so long as the individual sessions are within the guide lines (5 minutes per month of age). Would the consensus be that a morning and afternoon walk of 50 minutes - with some of it on the lead - be OK? His sire and dam are both working dogs and Monty seems to have inherited the ability to work cover - hence him charging about the woods off the lead. That is something I am going to have to give some attention to. My time is pretty well my own and Monty is my constant companion so I am able to do as much or as little as is necessary with him. Question is - when would it be acceptable to walk for longer periods? From experience I know that a GSD (in the military) is only considered ready for full time training and work at 18 months so would Monty be up for a more active regime at that sort of age? Thanks again to each of you for your input.

[Emilyoliver]

Hi, have you given any thought to gundog training for him? I have 2 working types from working/trialling lines and they both live to work. A good half hour's controlled quartering combined with some retrieves works brilliantly to tire them both mentally and physically. And they enjoy that more than 'just walking' as it's more interactive and uses their instincts fully. Plus it's lots of fun for me and them. I work my dogs during the season, but gundog training can be useful on its own even if you never plan to work your dog in the field.

[Poi]

Hi, have you given any thought to gundog training for him? I have 2 working types from working/trialling lines and they both live to work. A good half hour's controlled quartering combined with some retrieves works brilliantly to tire them both mentally and physically. And they enjoy that more than 'just walking' as it's more interactive and uses their instincts fully. Plus it's lots of fun for me and them. I work my dogs during the season, but gundog training can be useful on its own even if you never plan to work your dog in the field.

Can you recommend any websites to get started with gun dog training? I think I've got a clever one on my hands and she could do with the extra work.

There seem to be so many methods that I just want to choose one I know works and stick with it.

Also, with the 5 minute rule when does it end? Is there a certain age where the growth stops and it's not so much of an issue or just a case of judging for yourself when they're a year or year and half plus?

Question time finished 

[Emilyoliver]

I'd suggest a good gundog trainer (with specific experience with spaniels) to start with.  That way he/she can explain and probably show you what you are aiming for and guide you through the process.  I joined my local working spaniel club and it was a brilliant introduction.  Where are you based?  May be able to suggest some clubs or trainers near you.  Otherwise I have copies of Joe Irving's Training Spaniels and Janet Menzies' Training the Working Cocker Spaniel.  they're both very useful - if I had to choose one it would be Joe Irving's - very easy to understand, and logical steps.  Otherwise the Simon Tyers/ Hawcroft Gundogs DVDs (Training Spaniels) are good as well.  There are lots of different 'methods', some harsher than others so you need to see what you're comfortable with.  Oops, I see you're in Bucharest - bit far to travel to UK for 121s!

[hoover]

Very many thanks for your helpful comments. It would certainly seem that Monty is overdoing his exercise so I shall have to revise his schedule. Trouble is he is a very active little dog and seems to have a very low boredom threshold. He will chill out for short intervals (he is lying next to me in my study whilst I type this) but it won't be too long before he is looking for something to do. I like your suggestion Elaine that it would not do him any harm to have more than one exercise session each day so long as the individual sessions are within the guide lines (5 minutes per month of age). Would the consensus be that a morning and afternoon walk of 50 minutes - with some of it on the lead - be OK? His sire and dam are both working dogs and Monty seems to have inherited the ability to work cover - hence him charging about the woods off the lead. That is something I am going to have to give some attention to. My time is pretty well my own and Monty is my constant companion so I am able to do as much or as little as is necessary with him. Question is - when would it be acceptable to walk for longer periods? From experience I know that a GSD (in the military) is only considered ready for full time training and work at 18 months so would Monty be up for a more active regime at that sort of age? Thanks again to each of you for your input.

I would love to see the statistics on what constitutes a safe amount of exercise for a puppy at any given age...as far as I know a definitive explanation doesn't actually exist, and the studies I have read are pretty contradictory with the rules of thumb we hear and are meant to adhere to..saying that off lead exericse at an early age is associated with a decreased likelihood of later development of hip dysplasia, for example. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22620698  when many people are very strict with limiting exercise for puppies at this age. A lot of people distinguish between forced and unforced exercise for puppies and it is worth researching that distinction.

My boy is 18 weeks and has a working mother and a show father, he was champing at the bit to run and run and run from a very early age.. restricting him in his desires to exercise meant destructive behaviour and a frustrated ,unhappy puppy..it was bad news all round and it became apparent very early on this 5 minute rule could not be workable for us

[elaine.e]

Very many thanks for your helpful comments. It would certainly seem that Monty is overdoing his exercise so I shall have to revise his schedule. Trouble is he is a very active little dog and seems to have a very low boredom threshold. He will chill out for short intervals (he is lying next to me in my study whilst I type this) but it won't be too long before he is looking for something to do. I like your suggestion Elaine that it would not do him any harm to have more than one exercise session each day so long as the individual sessions are within the guide lines (5 minutes per month of age). Would the consensus be that a morning and afternoon walk of 50 minutes - with some of it on the lead - be OK? His sire and dam are both working dogs and Monty seems to have inherited the ability to work cover - hence him charging about the woods off the lead. That is something I am going to have to give some attention to. My time is pretty well my own and Monty is my constant companion so I am able to do as much or as little as is necessary with him. Question is - when would it be acceptable to walk for longer periods? From experience I know that a GSD (in the military) is only considered ready for full time training and work at 18 months so would Monty be up for a more active regime at that sort of age? Thanks again to each of you for your input.

I would love to see the statistics on what constitutes a safe amount of exercise for a puppy at any given age...as far as I know a definitive explanation doesn't actually exist, and the studies I have read are pretty contradictory with the rules of thumb we hear and are meant to adhere to..saying that off lead exericse at an early age is associated with a decreased likelihood of later development of hip dysplasia, for example. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22620698  when many people are very strict with limiting exercise for puppies at this age. A lot of people distinguish between forced and unforced exercise for puppies and it is worth researching that distinction.

My boy is 18 weeks and has a working mother and a show father, he was champing at the bit to run and run and run from a very early age.. restricting him in his desires to exercise meant destructive behaviour and a frustrated ,unhappy puppy..it was bad news all round and it became apparent very early on this 5 minute rule could not be workable for us

The study you quote focussed on activity in breeds prone to HD and their exercise up to 3 months old. Not surprisingly, it concluded that walking puppies up stairs at such a young age leads to an increased risk of HD, while letting them play and exercise on normal ground off leash at that age doesn't. I don't see any mention of taking them for long walks, so it seems to me those puppies (apart from the poor souls led up and down stairs) were probably just doing normal puppy playing outdoors, where they can self regulate bursts of activity with periods of rest or just mooching about. That's quite different to a typical dog walk where the owner dictates pace and duration.

[Murphys Law]

Millie, my 16 week old worker pup, gets 2 half hour walks. I realise that this is more than the 5 minute rule allows but it is enough to tire her out and we have a calm pup for the day. If I only give her the allotted 20 minutes I find she is still too hyper in the house and jumping off furniture onto a hard wood floor (she doesn't jump down, she jumps up ) could harm her joints more than an extra 10 minutes walk.

We have a stair gate so no running up and down stairs, she is always carried.

[elaine.e]

Millie, my 16 week old worker pup, gets 2 half hour walks. I realise that this is more than the 5 minute rule allows but it is enough to tire her out and we have a calm pup for the day. If I only give her the allotted 20 minutes I find she is still too hyper in the house and jumping off furniture onto a hard wood floor (she doesn't jump down, she jumps up ) could harm her joints more than an extra 10 minutes walk.

We have a stair gate so no running up and down stairs, she is always carried.

That seems really sensible to me . The 5 minute rule isn't set in tablets of stone, it's more of a guideline. When Louis was young he used to have the occasional longer walk with William, my friend and her dog, but we were careful to give him periods of rest where we'd all stop for a break or we'd do some fun scentwork games to find hidden treats so that all three dogs were using their noses rather than just running about.

[Murphys Law]

Millie, my 16 week old worker pup, gets 2 half hour walks. I realise that this is more than the 5 minute rule allows but it is enough to tire her out and we have a calm pup for the day. If I only give her the allotted 20 minutes I find she is still too hyper in the house and jumping off furniture onto a hard wood floor (she doesn't jump down, she jumps up ) could harm her joints more than an extra 10 minutes walk.

We have a stair gate so no running up and down stairs, she is always carried.

That seems really sensible to me . The 5 minute rule isn't set in tablets of stone, it's more of a guideline. When Louis was young he used to have the occasional longer walk with William, my friend and her dog, but we were careful to give him periods of rest where we'd all stop for a break or we'd do some fun scentwork games to find hidden treats so that all three dogs were using their noses rather than just running about.

And you know what spaniels are like. They have to stop and sniff EVERYTHING

We really don't get that far in 30 minutes.

[rubybella]

The 5 minute rule is supposed to be used as guidance. I think it is a useful tool to have in mind when exercising young puppies. I don't think you need to stick to it rigorously but at the same time if the 5 minute rule suggests 20 mins every day for your puppy and you are doing 60 mins every day then that isn't really sensible, however the odd 60 minute walk probably won't do any harm. With Wcs it's not just about exercising the physical energy but mental as well. When mine was a puppy we did a lot of hunting in the garden and house for treats, practising recall and stopping on command in the garden, retrieving of toys etc. If you combine a few of these sessions in the day, along with a reasonable walk, then that should really be enough. The rest of the time your puppy/dog should learn to settle themselves and chill out. As I have said before, my Wcs has a decent walk once a day where she is on full, hyper mode and a we might do a bit of play in the garden but for the rest of the day she sleeps.

[Murphys Law]

I believe the 5 minute rule is for a walk, not excise in a day. So you can walk your puppy more than once (up to 3 times if I remember correctly) so an hours excise in a day shouldn't be too much as long as it is not done in a single walk.