Low Fat Cereal Free Diet

[AndyB]

My dog Jazz has been diagnosed with Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency this week.  He will need to be on a low fat, cereal free diet for the rest of his life.   I know many members' have experience of Pancreatitis and would be grateful for any advice on changes to Jazz's diet.  He currently has Lilly's Kitchen kibble, (which I know is cereal free) mixed with Burns Lamb and Rice which he won't be able to have.  With the amount of food he is currently eating the Lilly's Kitchen alone is going to prove very expensive.  I feed him cooked chicken, a bit of tuna in spring water, no oil, and cooked mince, supermarket quality, which I drain all the fat from.  I know the mince is going to be a definite NO NO.  Would a little white fish be ok added to his food to make it more interesting.  Any advice and guidance would be much appreciated.   

Many thanks.

[ejp]

Plain white fish would be fine. What about Naturediet Sensitive, it is low fat, and I think meets your other criteria. Not too bad price wise either. Just remembered, I used to get turkey mince in Aldi which is low fat and not expensive. I did it in the slow cooker for my lot. Went down a treat.

[Patp]

Are you able to feed raw?  All kibble has added ingredients that your dog won't need.  I would either go for a complete raw (Nutriment do a low fat one) or look at the raw feeding thread on here.  Raw white fish is better than oily fish but you need to balance the meals over a few days.

[phoenix]

How low is the low fat requirement.  Millies Wolfheart do two kibbles at 8.5%. fibre  ok for Epi at 3.5.
I tried using raw for a while, using the suggested ratios of mince, liver,  egg shell, oil, etc but I gave up as I was uncertain about measuring the calcium , phosphorous  and so on. You canbuy supplements  . With a diabetic, I would be worried about the fats in raw,  and the Epi intolerance to chicken . I wanted try Nutriment but they insisted on a large order, without trial packs .
 

[Jaysmumagain]

I am a big fan of Naturediet and always have the sensitive on hand, if Ollie's tum is off!!  it is 60% salmon then rice and veg.
Naturediet do actually do a grain free range link  www.naturediet.co.uk/grain-free-single-and-twin-pack this might be worth a try,  I have to admit Ollie doe's not do well with potato added to food and is better suited to rice.

[phoenix]

If Jazz proves to be positive to Epi,  the fibre needs to be under 4%.  Thus being fermentable fibre , which excludes peas.   Grain free  includes no rice. I didn't know this at first, but Marti was ok with it fir a few months, because I fattened her up on tinned Chappie original.  I have a feeling that fat us quite low. But I'm  not mathematically gifted enough to  convert wet food ratios with dry food. I know tpyoyou have to deduct the moisture content and convert the ret of the proportions to 100% to compare it.!

[Micahs Mum]

If you are able to feed raw Nutriment low purine is excellent and has everything they need ready prepared. I have one of my Golden Retrievers on it as he struggles with weight gain since starting an anti epileptic drug and he has lost weight on it.

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[Archie bean]

My last cocker suffered from chronic pancreatitis. Although he never suffered as badly as his initial bout, it flared up regularly if he became stressed or if he ate something he shouldn’t. I was told the fat content he needed was below 4%. That proved REALLY hard to find. Many of the foods available claiming to be low fat are a lot higher than this. He was raw fed at the time of his initial bout (that wasn’t the cause - a stolen chocolate Santa hidden in my nieces stocking and left in the floor was the culprit!) but he couldn’t go back to raw as the fat content is very high. The NI low purine would be worth trying despite being a bit higher in fat.
Initially the Vet suggested Chappie and that did settle him down but it wasn’t appealing to him or me  and he still wasn’t 100% on it and regularly had small relapses. Eventually he suggested Royal Canin low fat gastro-intestinal dry food. Yes, I know the ingredients don’t look great, it isn’t cereal free and it has about 7% fat if I remember right, but all I can say is that he never looked back once on it. He stayed on it - with a little Chappie or just plain chicken mixed in - for the rest of his life. He was a different dog on it.
I hope you find something that works. It can be quite a challenge - treats can be especially difficult. I found fish skin treats were pretty good and still use them for Archie.

[its.sme]

Have you thought of home cooking for Jazz ?

Lillys kitchen book is pretty good, You can change the recipe's to suit Jazz, you can get 2 percent turkey mince from sainsbury's and add the veg, the book outlines the benefits of most common veg, fruit etc,.

Bea was home cooked for about a year after her stay at RVC, her vet agreed that she looked good on it and the only reason I changed her to Kibble was that her Vitamin D and Phosforus needed to be constant due to her condition.

At least this way you will know exactly what is in the food, I stuck to the Loaf recipe, cooked a batch, sliced it and froze it, all I then had to do was remember to defrost it.

I used Spelt flour but you can do without it, the loaf will just be more crumbly when cooked so I would cook it in muffin tins so I didn't need to slice it.

Sharon.

[Archie bean]

I just had another thought. Archie currently can only eat a fish and potato diet due to colitis. He has fishmongers finest or Wainwrights salmon and potato from pets at home. I buy the bulk box which works out very reasonably. He get a LOT less than the recommended amount as he is not an active dog and a bit on the porky side. Wainwrights do a grain free version which has white fish vegetables and sweet potato. We can’t use it as Archie can’t tolerate peas so I don’t know what it is like. It’s lower in fat than the one we get. Archie has no mixer or kibble with it and he loves it. Might be worth a look.

[AndyB]

  to you all.  Thank you so much for your support and suggestions.  I have some white fish in the freezer which I will cook for Jazz and I will get some turkey mince from Sainsbury's.  Jazz was sick again last night but only a little bit.  I am just grateful that he has managed to get to 12 yrs and 11 months before this condition was diagnosed as Jazz's dad is Norbert on the Facebook fundraising page for Pancreatitis.  Norbert was the most wonderful Cocker and tragically died far too young.   Unfortunately I am not a member of Facebook so I cannot access this.  Onwards and upwards as they say.  Its a matter of trial and error.  He is quite perky and still has his cheeky personality so I don't think he is feeling too poorly.  The vet has assured me that Jazz is not in pain.   

[phoenix]

Yes, peas are a nuisance, used to bump up protein.   The other problem I found with a fish and potato one in PAH,  the Advanced one I think, was that it contained chicken or chicken oil which my girl couldn't have. It was 'guaranteed' so I took it back, open, much to the thick staffs' confusion. A phone call gave me a refund. I also made the same mistake with the Arden Grange one,  which I gave to a rescue . Millies W have enough recipes for most people.  However there is a shortage of Aberdeen  Angus beef and they can't make the Farmers mix!
Treats for Epi dogs are impossible until they are stable, the enzymes you use aren't able to last more than an half an hour or so.  They start digesting immediately, and turn the food to something smelling distinctly like sick, as would the normal gut .  Some people use ice cubes.

[Archie bean]

Yes, peas are a nuisance, used to bump up protein.   The other problem I found with a fish and potato one in PAH,  the Advanced one I think, was that it contained chicken or chicken oil which my girl couldn't have. It was 'guaranteed' so I took it back, open, much to the thick staffs' confusion. A phone call gave me a refund. I also made the same mistake with the Arden Grange one,  which I gave to a rescue . Millies W have enough recipes for most people.  However there is a shortage of Aberdeen  Angus beef and they can't make the Farmers mix!
Treats for Epi dogs are impossible until they are stable, the enzymes you use aren't able to last more than an half an hour or so.  They start digesting immediately, and turn the food to something smelling distinctly like sick, as would the normal gut .  Some people use ice cubes.

Yes, the addition of poultry fat or other meat in “fish” foods is really common and incredibly annoying when your dog can’t eat it. There’s none in the fishmongers food that Archie has - not sure about the grain free Wainwrights one. 

[Mudmagnets]

Don't know if these people could help you, apparently you tell them what your dog likes/needs, can or cannot have and they produce the food for them.

https://tails.com/how-it-works#your-dog

Hope you can get something sorted for Jazz 

[AndyB]

Thanks for all your replies and suggestions.  After studying ingredients I have ordered another batch of Lily's Kitchen.  It is grain free and seems to be much lower in fat than the Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal.  I do not like the term "Animal Derivatives".  I always add something more interesting to Jazz's kibble, i.e. cooked chicken or white fish now.  I bought some minced turkey breast today so will try him with that.  It is a rollercoaster at the moment but he likes the Lily's Kitchen and the ingredients are good.  He is only having small meals at the moment, little and often and the last thing I need is to purchase some new food and find that he doesn't like it.  My poor boy has lost enough weight.  Out of interest, where do you get Chappie from.  I visited Sainsbury's this morning and they don't seem to stock it there, at least not the branch I visited.