For those people who have litter mates.........

[tracey]

No-ones said they own, or know of anyone who owns two older cocker littermates yet  .

I do.... black dog and bitch aged 4 years, blue dog and bitch 5 years. Black and blue boy sleep and eat together and are both stud dogs...never ever had a cross word between them Black bitch and blue bitch  lived together perfectly happy but then so do all of my dogs. All of my dogs and bitches get on well together.

It is hard work training siblings.... i was pulled up a while ago as someone thought I knew better than everyone else as I had bred them but it can be done PROPERLY. You just need to make time for individual training, walks and socialising, most importantly siblings should not become dependant on one another. My dogs are well adjusted well trained individuals, as anyone who knows them will tell you They are also show dogs so wouldn't be happy and show well if they were dependant on another dog.

Tracey

[Penel]

How many dogs do you have in total Tracey ?

[Jane S]

I think it does make a difference if you have siblings or similar-aged dogs living together as part of a larger group - the group dynamics seem to reduce the risk of squabbling though it does still happen. A breeder friend of mine had litter mates (blue roan dogs) a few years ago and they were the best of friends until they reached about 8 or 9 months when all hell broke out and from that point on they could not live together happily and one had to be rehomed in the interests of both of them. I know someone else who has 5 Cockers (not a breeder) and two do not get on together and so are kept apart permanently (these aren't siblings but there is only a year between them and both are male). Luckily this person has a big house so the dogs that don't get on live in separate parts of the house and never meet - not how I would want to live but it works for her

[AnnB]

We had two Cavs, Beth and Tess who were litter mates. Beth died last year on 4 August aged 14 and Tess died on December 27 having made it to 15.

They were lovely old ladies and you very rarely saw one without the other a couple of yards behind. Tess was slightly more independent and therefore it was probably best that Beth went first, because I think she would have pined more than Tess did if it had been the other way around.

If one was ill, the other would be very attentive and I never saw them so much as growl at the other. Although come to think of it, I never saw them growl at anyone! They were typically greedy Cavs and even if Beth bloted her dinner and tried to get her head into Tess' bowl, she would just move politely out of the way, or wedge her nose more firmly into the bowl!

And I would add, Penel is certainly right....they are a different kettle of fish from cockers!!! Big time!!!

[Jeano]

Hello everyone,We have seen bothe sides of the coin.
We had two litter mates-Cocker spaniels-for eight years,Zak and Kes,prior to them-we had two mongrel litter mates-at least that is what we were told-they were with mum-at a sanctuary-THEY were as different as chalk and cheese-in EVERY way,they had to be doctored to get them to abide in same cottage when older.One was the problem dog-the other nice tempered-BUT strong minded.I loved both-but Merlin was the love-Shep was a one person dog-mine,lots of Welsh collie in him.If ever there was a never again-that was it!
When Merlin died-4 years after Shep at nearly 17-we decided on a pedigree-for possibly our last dog,being retired etc now.Will not go into the trauma of finding one-we ran into puppy farming etc.Eventually we found the breeder-Lyn- we needed,she had a litter ready to go-and we bought ONE pup,Coltrim descendant very attractive white/black pup.he was great-so after a week when asked how he was settling-we asked about the other white/black pup-rest of litter blue roans-this pup hid when people went to choose-so we bought him too! I can only say-their prefix was Gentle Set-and they were.Zak was with us one week when Kes arrived
Kes was a quiet dog-happy to let Zak show him the way,didn't want to lead BUT they also were great with us-happy whether together-or on walks seperately with us-as we said they also needed one to one attention.
If one was "off colour" they always cuddled up in one of the beds.Sat in the car together-had to feed seperately as Zak would eat any Kes-not a great eater left-obviously we didn't want that-and we DID want to know how much Kes was eating.
 Loved playing tig in the garden-but at night -Kes sat by me-Zak by my husband-their choice.Now-their ashes are in the spot where they played tig together.
It depends on the two dogs-IF two want to "boss"it will not work happily as in Merlin and Shep-but if one is happy as follower-it does.
hope of interest.
Jeano

[Jane S]

It depends on the two dogs-IF two want to "boss"it will not work happily as in Merlin and Shep-but if one is happy as follower-it does.
hope of interest.

I agree Jeano - complementary personalities are critical if you want a harmonious household and have two dogs about the same age. It's when you have two similar confident personalities that you tend to get clashes - this is not the fault of the owner as someone else suggested above, it's just how dogs are (and humans sometimes for that matter ).

[Penel]

I agree too - trouble is when they are 6 - 8 weeks old you can't tell what they are going to be like as adults - which is why it isn't recommended having two puppies together !!!! 
I've been trying to think of the advantages of having two puppies together - they always have someone to play with and they always have someone to keep them company.... are there any more ?

[bluegirl]

I've now got 14 week old litter mates, A boy and a girl. They get on great and their personalities compliment one another. Phoebe is definately boss and you could see from 5 weeks of age what sort of personalities were developing, Logan is laid back and phoebe is an adventurous, mischievious imp. When any of the other pups return to our house it's Phoebe that pins them down and puts them in their place, Logan will play with them all. (so far as I am aware that the dynamics will change with adolescent behaviour).
Both dogs are walked together with Penny off their leads in the woods and socialise well with other dogs and have pretty good recall, (Phoebe needs more of an eye keeping on her because she runs alittle further and is more likely to ignore you, but I insist that they return on recall every so often just to reinforce my authority)
They also have separate individual walks and training as I fully expect to have 2 well trained pups at some time in the future so practice makes perfect!
They love playing with each other at home and I am conscious that they may bond together, but so far they are still very much at the stage were humans are important to them. I feed them at the same time and they are good together, although Logan is a bit more possessive with his bones than Phoebe, but he knows if he finishes first he dare not take hers. They also sleep together.
 Toilet training is getting there, but I have limited them to only 2 rooms, which I haven't done in the past just to make it easier to minimise accidents.
I know I have a long way to go and may encounter problems in the future, but so far everything is fine. I am taking a relaxed approach I am expecting training to take longer, but I am starting firmly and being consistant because at the end of the day a well behaved dog is a joy to have.
I also discouraged all my puppy owners not to take 2 siblings at once and pointed out the pros and cons of 2 pups together.

[Laura]

I've been trying to think of the advantages of having two puppies together - they always have someone to play with and they always have someone to keep them company.... are there any more ?

They learn bite inhibition from each other instead of our hands and feet 

Sorry don't have litter mates - We have a 9 month age difference but have still had to be careful to think dog    Had our hiccups when Bailey (youngest) reached 7 months.

[Penel]

True - about the bite inhibition thing, although they do learn that if you have other dogs too, not just siblings.  I also think Karen's case is "different" because she has the pup's mother there - teaching them all the time too.... two siblings together within other dogs is different, as it diffuses any situations - there is always "someone else" to play with, sleep with, socialise with etc.  I think concerns really lie with same sex siblings where there are no other dogs in the household.  It will be really interesting to see how things develop with those on the forum that are in this situation.  It is strange how there don't seem to be any forum members with same sex siblings over a few years old, that are the only dogs in the household.....

I really hope no one feels I am picking on them - I genuinely am interested in this subject.... same as I have 4 bitches and one dog - most people would be horrified to have that many bitches living together - for us, it's fine, so far - you never know when things will change !

[Rhona W]

It is strange how there don't seem to be any forum members with same sex siblings over a few years old, that are the only dogs in the household.....

Jeano is a forum member - she had cocker spaniel litter brothers who successfully lived together and were the only dogs in the house.

I really hope no one feels I am picking on them - I genuinely am interested in this subject....

I don't feel picked on (Well not all the time any way!  ) But I do feel that so many people expressing prophecies of doom makes people like me (as in litter mate owners) paranoid sometimes. Every look or growl can be taken as a sign of trouble. I had problems with meal times lately and imagined big problems. But I was advised to cut them down to two meals and problem solved!  Yesterday they had a bone each and growled if the other one came too close. Again - is that a problem with litter mates or normal dog to dog behaviour?
The other thing is that a lot of the people who advise against having litter mates have never actually had litter mates themselves. They advise against it because someone told them or they read it in a book. I'm not saying you have to have had experience to advise, but some people are very vehement in their posts when they are only talking from theory, not practical experience.
I'm not saying you can't/shouldn't politely ask people if they are aware that they may have issues along the way - but I don't think there is a need to hound them over what is ultimately their own choice.
And I'm not picking on you there Penel either! 

[PennyB]

The other thing is that a lot of the people who advise against having litter mates have never actually had litter mates themselves. They advise against it because someone told them or they read it in a book. I'm not saying you have to have had experience to advise, but some people are very vehement in their posts when they are only talking from theory, not practical experience.

may be not but some do see the results of it 1st hand of those that do have them

[Rhona W]

The other thing is that a lot of the people who advise against having litter mates have never actually had litter mates themselves. They advise against it because someone told them or they read it in a book. I'm not saying you have to have had experience to advise, but some people are very vehement in their posts when they are only talking from theory, not practical experience.

may be not but some do see the results of it 1st hand of those that do have them

Well that is practical experience then isn't it? Unless you saw photographs in a book! Am I right in thinking you foster dogs or am I getting confused? Have you had to pick up the pieces then?

[Jane S]

I agree too - trouble is when they are 6 - 8 weeks old you can't tell what they are going to be like as adults - which is why it isn't recommended having two puppies together !!!! 

Yes but it explains why some who have two pups together experience no problems whatsoever and others do have problems. Experienced breeders do have a reasonable idea by 8 weeks which pups in a litter are likely to be pushy and which submissive which is why they often try to match up individual pups to the most appropriate home. However more often than not, when people do take on two pups together, they choose which ones they want and the breeder hasn't given any real guidance as to the personalities involved (because of inexperience or whatever)

[Helen]

The other thing is that a lot of the people who advise against having litter mates have never actually had litter mates themselves. They advise against it because someone told them or they read it in a book. I'm not saying you have to have had experience to advise, but some people are very vehement in their posts when they are only talking from theory, not practical experience.

may be not but some do see the results of it 1st hand of those that do have them

it's not what i've read in books either rhonaw, it's as penny says - one of the results being re-homing one of the dogs eventually....

i'm not saying this will happen to reuben and caspar - from what i read in your posts i think they firmly have their doggy hierachy sorted out and this will be far less problematic than 2 dogs that are struggling for top dog status.  I have seen soooo many times on rescue sites 1 dog being re-homed because his/her littermate doesn't get on with them.

and this is definitely not aimed at the cocker owners here as I know that all of you are socialising your dogs anyway but.... often when people get 2 littermates they do so to keep the other dog company and forget about the socialising (humans, animals, other dogs) that is so important. i know 2 springers (sister/brother) who are not only dog aggressive but scared stiff of small children simply because they didn't meet many other dogs or kids when they were young.  And they are over-bonded and 3/4 of the time completely ignore their owner.....and we avoid them if we see them on walks