kenmilfore flyer aka sweep (does the breeder recognise this name)

[Cob-Web]

and while i know that everybody thinks it is the wrong time to have a pup imo if we waited until we had everybodys permission for the right time to get one nobody would ever own a dog, too young, to old, disabled, got kids, got baby , pregnant, moving home, getting a job, goes to work already ,death in the family, divorce , marrage,  doesnt go to work all, lost the job, family death, illness, family illness , eloping ,holiday.. these are all reasons for not having a dog or pup apparently , while i do appreciate the fact that it is not always easy coping with a pup or a dog, it can work...all the above circumstances can happen while you have a pup but people still keep them and cope and manage very well and have obedient dogs ,

is their ever a right time to have a dog?? when you sit and think about all the things that could or could not happen at any second of your life the answer is no...

Maybe in your life, Katie - I'm exhausted just thinking about how busy you must be 

We planned Molo's arrival so that we didn't have any predicted major life events coming up, no job changes, house moves, holidays or new babies or anything to take our attention away from him 

Of course the unexpected can happen in anyone's life, which is why good breeders are always prepared to take a dog back - but to give a puppy the best possible chance of growing up well trained and well socialised, then avoiding periods when the household is in turmoil and the time available for the puppy is limited is obviously best for the pup 

I assume you have been lucky enough to have four healthy pregnancies up until now? Sadly, this isn't always the case; and if things don't go according to plan then there is always the risk that you could be confined to bed rest or even hospital for days or weeks; I'm sure your partner will have enough to deal with juggling your children, visits to you and work, without having to deal with a puppy as well  I know it is temping to want it now, but you have been through the heartache of giving up a dog already, so you know in your heart that the unselfish decision is to wait........

[*Adele*]

I really don't want to upset you but having 4 kids below the age of 5 and a new born on the way as well as having a puppy sounds like far too much work for anybody!   I have a 5 year old and a 3 year old and a 9 month old puppy and at times it is trying but only because it means I have to drag the kids away from their toys to take the dog for a walk. You may be very lucky in that all your kids will happily take a working cocker for the necessary walks and in which case you are extremely lucky!

As for training, my trainer expressed not to take my kids along as they would get bored and/or cause too much distraction. Even my eldest who wants to take a part in the training can often make mistakes and can upset all the work I have done! Never mind the youngest who's speach is still being worked on confuses the dog when she can't quite understand what he's telling her to do.

Keeping an eye on kids and dog - how do you intend on doing this now never mind when you have a newborn to look after?

I really feel for you as you obviously want another cocker so badly but I really don't know how you will cope! Kids of this age cause enough work to make a sane person mad without having the difficulties of a very boisterous puppy as well! Sorry but I don't mean this to sound nasty but if you get a puppy in the next 2 years I can see that poor puppy ending up in a new home very soon!  

[Nicola]

I think it is rather disingenuous of you not to be honest with the breeder about your real circumstances. If I was a breeder and someone deceived me in this way to get a puppy I would be furious if/when I found out. I know for a fact that no reputable rescue association would rehome a dog or pup to a family where the owner was pregnant and I doubt if any reputable breeder would either if they actually knew about it.

Nobody is saying that children and dogs should be 'sheltered' from each other, I'm all for kids and dogs being around each other as are most, if not all the people on this forum. The main issue is the fact that you will not be able to devote sufficient time to training a puppy with a newborn baby as well. There is very seldom a 'perfect time' for anything but you can ensure that you take on new things such as a puppy at the BEST possible time. Surely you owe that to both your family and to the puppy??

Just to add it does not bring out 'vices' in a dog not to be around babies, that is a very odd thing to say    I do not have children but I took time and effort to socialise Alfie when he was a puppy and he is excellent with children of all ages.

I have a feeling I'm wasting my breath here as you're going to do whatever you want at the end of the day. I just hope that this doesn't end up with yet another adolescent working cocker ending up in rescue or being rehomed as so many already do and your last cocker did 

[mrssittingduck]

as i was posting before the topic was locked

I assume you have been lucky enough to have four healthy pregnancies up until now? Sadly, this isn't always the case; and if things don't go according to plan then there is always the risk that you could be confined to bed rest or even hospital for days or weeks; I'm sure your partner will have enough to deal with juggling your children, visits to you and work, without having to deal with a puppy as well 

actually this is my 18th pregnancy along with stillborn twins , so i do know what you mean about things like that,  i have dealt with my kids through thick and thin as my partner hasnt always been here or the best of fathers to start with, so i do know it is time consuming, i gave birth to my kids and was out of hospital within a day and running round after them was hard work but you have to do it for the sake of the kids and animals, he has changed now thank god , but i am only inquiring about pups , i am not rushing in to buy one, their is a litter due in 2 weeks which i could have but everything wont be ready for when the pup is born and so will not consder one of those, but i am  going to view the pups and get to know about the breeder and the standard of his pups, i want to look at the litters and see what nature the pups have from the dog and bitch and hopefully will be making a few visits over a period of time , and then my name will be put into a waiting list if i decide he is the breeder for me,
i dont have to have one out of this litter or the next and he has welcomed me to view his litters of pups and get to know about his dogs and how they were trained and brought up ,
technically it will be me vetting a potential breeder and not them vetting me,

i also want to visit a few other reputable breeders before deciding on just the 1 breeder as this gives leaway as to deciding which is the best and which produce the best and well mannered and gentle but curious pups...
i want to know about their homelife and socialisation and to make sure they are the right temprement ...
i can get to know how they generally turn out by visiting their existing litters before i plough in and buy one ....

katie


and i have diceaved nobody as i have told no lies and i wasnt asked anything and i am not buying a pup...

i was merely vetting the breeder as would any other normal person or as they SHOULD , as not everybody does this before they buy a dog...

and it can bring out vices i know of a dog that had no contact with babys at all and was took out  and it came into contact with a crying baby as the dog didnt know what it was and what the noise was it got scared and growled and jumped and growled even more jumping up at the baby....

had the dog been introduced to the sound and sight of a baby it may not have acted like this, however every dog is different and you get some good and some bad,
a lot of things bring out a lot of vices

and while my last cocker was rehomed he wasnt rehomed for the right reason,  he was rehomed because at the time i didnt have the guts to stand up for myself and say no,  he was a great dog and was well trained , i had trained him with a lot of field skills that where put into practice every day and he got a good home doing what he loved,

i came on here looking for a breeders contact number to make contact and get her details again and to explain the situation of what had happened and how sweep is, not for you to go ape on me and tell me i am bieng stupid as nowhere on here does it say that i am buying a dog right now ....
read it through from start to finish and you will see that,
but i still see no reason why dogs and babys can not live happily even though i am not getting a pup yet

[Cayley]

It's fair to say that a reputable breeder might allow a pup to go to a home with young children providing they really get to know the family first. I do think you should say to your breeder that you are pregnant, it's important for all involved that the breeder knows the situation that the pup is going to be placed in so they can make an informed decision  .  

[Gilly]

Sorry Cayley I don't agree with you I don't know ANY reputable breeders that would let a puppy go to a home with 4 children under 5...and another on the way!! I know I wouldn't!

[mrssittingduck]

i am not planning on having a pup from this litter, and he has a long waiting list for his dogs if i do chose to buy one from this breeder , the waiting list is 2 years plus

i am not planning on jumping in at the deep end, i want to get to know about them as they would also get to know about me, the breeder knows about sweep and what whent on and this has been discussed in full with the breeder, so weather i am pregnant now or not doesnt really make a difference to him or me as im not planning for a pup yet,

he is going to ring me when the pups are born and i can go down and visit them at 5 weeks old and then again at 8 just before they go to new owners....

i will also go down and see a few more of his litters over the waiting list period he has 2 breeding pairs of cockers that he works aswell as keeps as pets and also breeds, he alternates his breedings of his dogs and only has 2 litters a year between the 2 pairs of dogs, that is 1 litter of pups per dog,
he will be keeping back 1 of the pups from next years litter to train for the field and 1 from this years litter, and he is willing to give me a demonstration of the fathers at work in the field, he will also help me with his own training tips for recall and quartering on the visits... the first visit will not involve the kids been present and the next visits will involve them bieng their, if i do decide to buy a dog from the breeder somebody will be sent to my house to view and make sure it is suitable, and we will also meet on mutual ground with his pups before i buy one in order to see how my dog reacts to them, we will do this a few times over the waiting list time and hopefully when i do buy one it will be a happy sale

he does stud his dog out to various other bitches but i wont be viewing these unless i specificallly want to but i would rather meet the bitch and dog togather and get to know the both of them and their litters of pups..

[Elisa]

but that wont last much longer, i am 23 years old and will not let her keep backing me into corners and putting me down all  the time (enough is definitely enough)

actually this is my 18th pregnancy along with stillborn twins ,

23 years old and this is your 18th pregnancy 

Although I think you have made your mind up, I really hope you do take the good advice you have received on board.  A pup is hard work and so are 5 children under 5    Even if you did wait another 2 years, you will still have 5 children under 7.  No easy task for any parent. 

[Cayley]

Sorry Cayley I don't agree with you I don't know ANY reputable breeders that would let a puppy go to a home with 4 children under 5...and another on the way!! I know I wouldn't!

I don't know any breeders that would either and we certainly wouldn't. I didn't mean it to come across that a reputable breeder might home to a family where another child was on the way, just that they might home to a family with young (4 yr old) children. I would hope that if a breeder is told that a baby is due they would politely say no and explain why  .  

[mrssittingduck]

yes 18 pregnancys, i have what is known as graves disease it effects my glands and metabolism etc etc
basically as the hospital established after years of overdosing on the injection, double and triple dose of the pill and also the implant
my body uses everything it has 10 times faster than it should so basically a 12 month supply of the depivera injection lasts a measly couple of weeks,

this year they tried an implant aswell as double dose of the injection and double dose of the pill and well the result is in my stomach,
i used the morning after pill in this case but it didnt work and hence i have a baby insida me ...

i held my own baby for the brief minuit he lived and watched him die in my arms , after this happened and i got pregnant again i couldnt have an abortion, i felt bad enough as it was watching my kids die of natural causes and couldnt purposely kill one, i dont beleave in abortion apart from in certain circumstances and so now have 4 children and another on the way the hospital are now steralising me on health grounds as soon as i have had the baby, so i know my limit is def only 5 kidlets wouldnt swap them for the world  

one of my kidlets is 6 next week and the other is 5 the week after  one is 3 in december  so their will only be 2 kids under 5 by the time i finish on the waiting list and my kids have a lot of respect for all animals and know about boundrys that are set,  so by the time, if i do decide i want one from this breeder, everything will be good (fingers crossed) my kids are very good with animals of all sorts and i intend that they will also teach their kids this when they are older....

[Billybang]

I'd just like to sincerely apologise for the way that I totally misread your mother in my previous posts, I can see now that she is doing nothing more than looking out for you.

[Tasha]

I have to say its knackering just reading your posts... two things..

One: did you or your husband sign the kennel club papers on the back for your dog??  If not then the dog still legally belongs to you but you would need to go to court to have him returned.  Alternatively as the people you gave him to broke your verbal agreement you could call the police and report him as stolen... however you probably won't get anywhere.

Two: what in the world are you doing thinking about getting another puppy if you are pregnant and have that many children under 5 already???  You'll be ablsolutely shattered especially if you already have an illness and the last thing you will want is a baby screaming the place down, your other kids looking for attention and a puppy running riot.  Be sensible if not for you then for the puppy and wait until you have all the kids at school and can give some time to the pup to train it. 

Give yourself a break!! 

If you don't always have the support of your partner (and yes men can be s**ts!) then the last thing you'll need is the kids and animals on your hands, honestly it not worth it and you'll end up having to give the next puppy away as well... don't you want some time to  yourself?? To put your feet up and relax a little bit??? Lifes hard enough as it is without making it harder, working cockers take a lot of time and energy.

I have to say I am confused as to how you could of had 18 pregnancies in that short a period of time and have four children already.  Child loss is a terrible thing  prehaps councilling might be better than a dog.

If you are absolutely dead set on getting another dog then why not consider an older one that is already trained and needs a home?  That way you'll have your second dog, be doing someone a favour and at the same time not have to deal with a puppy and its needs.

Personally right now I wouldn't give you a dog.  Enjoy the forum, get your puppy fixes from here for now and when your REALLY ready for a dog everyone here will bend over backwards to help and support you.

[Jan/Billy]

I have to say its knackering just reading your posts... ..

Give yourself a break!! 

Exactly what I thought to be honest.

There is no way on this earth I could manage!

[lyn]

i had four kids in four years and tbh the last thing on my mind was a puppy. there was absolutely no way on earth i could have catered for a pup back then.
we recently had to rehome one of our dogs. long story and i won't repeat it coz it makes me cry i would love another dog(a very well bred one like ellie) but even though i can offer a fantastic home and plenty of excersice the puppy would be here unsupervised for 2 hours 4 days a week and i'm not sure that would be fair.
now i am going to be very blunt with you. after having 4 kids in four years and knowing just how much time they take up then imho there is absolutely NO WAY you would be able to give any puppy the time needed to take care of and ttrain a puppy who in a few months would be going through the hooliganism phase, even in 2 years time. if i were you i would concentrate on rearing your children for a few more years and wait until your unborn child is at least 4.
i intend no offence by this post. i also suspect that you will get a puppy within the next couple of months but thats nothing to do with me. i just needed to say my bit. after all i've been there and done that were the kids are concerned.

[Billybang]

I have to say its knackering just reading your posts... two things..

One: did you or your husband sign the kennel club papers on the back for your dog??  If not then the dog still legally belongs to you but you would need to go to court to have him returned.  Alternatively as the people you gave him to broke your verbal agreement you could call the police and report him as stolen... however you probably won't get anywhe

Sorry, but I would disregard both of these statements.

The Kennel Club have repeated said in cases like this that the KC registration is not proof of ownership yes, it can be used in disputes but it is not legally binding as the KC know that pups and dogs change hands with and without papers and in many divorce cases it has not mattered who's name is on the KC paper but in fact who actually gave the money to the breeder for the dog, so the KC paper is in no way legally binding or proof of ownership.

Secondly, it would be absolutely the wrong thing to do to every report this dog as stolen, there is  no law to stop anyone passing on a dog and even those who sign such docments it usually would not stand up in court, again they are not legally binding, especially in this case the pup was sold on or given away and the OP would be reporting a faulse crime the pup was the property of the second owner, not the first or the breeder all rights were withdrawn the minute the pup was given away or sold, there is no come back here, each new owner can pass on this pup to another, breed from it (if no endorsements and lets face it some do even with) send it to another country if they like all rights belong only with the present owner.

This pup is long gone now to his 3rd home, hopefully his last, not a great start to life bless him.