Rage...did I miss something?

[padfoot]

No, I'm not interested in the other rescue cockers myself, two dogs is enough for now    But I am trying to help them rehome by posting pictures for them and emailing people looking for cockers etc. It's such a shame for that gorgeous red from the pound, he's a stunning dog and has had such a confusing life so far  :cry:

I can see what you mean Jane, it would be difficult to poll it as not all dogs who have suffered have definitely had rage, not all dogs WITH rage would be recorded, and then only a huge study of owners of solid cockers could give even the slightest idea of the occurence.
I imagine there is a fair bit of presumption going on if there was such a press uproar too. If a cocker bites someone, do some owners automatically have it put down or presume it has rage because it happens to be a golden cocker? Could happen. Yet all breeds can be dominant or aggressive for various reasons.
I really feel for the owners who have suffered true rage syndrome with their dogs though, it must be the most awful situation to be in as presumably if all else fails the dog would have to be euthanised  :cry: .                    

[PennyB]

But I am trying to help them rehome by posting pictures for them and emailing people looking for cockers etc. It's such a shame for that gorgeous red from the pound, he's a stunning dog and has had such a confusing life so far  :cry:  

I can see what you mean Jane, it would be difficult to poll it as not all dogs who have suffered have definitely had rage, not all dogs WITH rage would be recorded, and then only a huge study of owners of solid cockers could give even the slightest idea of the occurence.
I imagine there is a fair bit of presumption going on if there was such a press uproar too. If a cocker bites someone, do some owners automatically have it put down or presume it has rage because it happens to be a golden cocker? Could happen. Yet all breeds can be dominant or aggressive for various reasons.  
I really feel for the owners who have suffered true rage syndrome with their dogs though, it must be the most awful situation to be in as presumably if all else fails the dog would have to be euthanised  :cry: .

I couldn't agree more as its sad that a cocker who people say is aggressive for what they think is no reason is rage, how do they really know its for no reason. I've come across many a dog who is fear aggressive, hand shy, or dominant (won't come off the sofa until they've bitten their owner, etc) and those owners don't know the difference between these issues, and just because its a solid coloured cocker they may then think its rage 1st yet if it were any other breed they may think something else.

I have a dominant cocker who is hard work sometimes if I let her—I know this and respond accordingly, but if she were in another home who doesn't understand this she could be labelled and I dread to think what could happen.

Lets face it out there some people can't distinguish between play growls and the real thing, which is very scary for the dogs involved.                    

[Maria]

A friend of a friend has a golden cocker that they swear as rage syndrome - and then you hear that the husband 'plays' with the dog by holding its head to the ground, the kids (who are a nightmare) are encouraged to be rough with her, and she never goes out for a walk. My friend begged them not to get a dog because she knew they wouldn't look after it properly....                    

[Katina]

Our finnish breedclub has been collecting information on ragecases in Finland, and they have a list of dogs(and their pedigrees) that have been put to sleep due to rage. This list is not public yet, but there has been discussion on making the list "open" for everyone to see. Of course this list concist only of registered dogs, and only the ones whose owners have informed our breedclub.

I have never myself had a rage case, but my friend had a golden male, who was put to sleep last summer due to rage. He was only 1 year old  :cry: . He was a very nice dog in between his "fits". But I know my friend made the right decision. There was no living with a dog like that.                    

[LindaW]

Hi Kelly,

It is impossible to state even approximately how common RS is in cockers for various reasons.  Not all cockers with RS are registered with the KC.  Some are not registered at all and some are registered with the DLRC which do not issue BRS about the numbers they register like the KC do.  Not all cases of RS are reported to me and a good many owners have their dog put to sleep and do not want to talk about it for obvious reasons.

I don't think that is the issue really - you would not have wanted to own a cocker with RS would you that attacked your children?  Even one case is one too many.  I do deal with a good many cases but have contacts from all over the world.  Sites like mine have now been set up in Japan and Germany.  It is evident that temperament is clearly a problem in today's cockers (not all of them have RS).  I believe that temperament is so important otherwise we will lose the "merry cocker" with the waggy tail.  

It is not just the golden ones that are affected, I would say it is just as common among the black ones and affects both males and females, although probably slightly more males involved.                    

[PennyB]

A friend of a friend has a golden cocker that they swear as rage syndrome - and then you hear that the husband 'plays' with the dog by holding its head to the ground, the kids (who are a nightmare) are encouraged to be rough with her, and she never goes out for a walk. My friend begged them not to get a dog because she knew they wouldn't look after it properly....

Its so sad the things some dogs have to endure. I know of a dog who had a similar life and was rehomed at the age of 2 to another branch of the family and he now has a loving home. The downside is that he's suffering from a few problems coping in his new home, which is understandable and not helped by a trainers wife who immediately suggested rage without even looking at the dog (not helped by my friend panicking and making it sound much worse than it is).                    

[padfoot]

Linda,
Yes, I quite agree that even one case is a case too many. I also agree that people should be informed. I just don't like the rumours that suggest that ALL red/golden cockers should be avoided like the plague. It seems some people know nothing about it (which is worrying), and others think that cockers (especially reds) are vicious full stop.
If Toby began to show symptoms of rage I would be heartbroken, but hopefully it would not put me off cockers because from what I've read, it IS quite rare and most golden cockers are placid dogs.
I do think it's worrying that the information on pedigrees and rage cases is not public. I can see the reasons why it might not be, but people deserve the information to make balanced decisions on where to obtain their dogs, particularly if they are opting for solid colours.
What worries me is that I knew little about rage before I agreed to take Toby, and I just love cockers and no colour in particular, but maybe if I had known more I might have thought twice about adopting him. Yet that would have been such a shame as he seems to have a very even temperament. I just hope people can put the problem into perspective.
I think the work you do with the site and helpline is fantastic by the way.
Kelly x                    

[bluesmum]

Kelly your quite right about being unfairly put off a solid colour.

When we were deciding on the right dog for us, a cocker was the top of the list, we went through endless books who all made reference to rage syndrome in the solid colours, we also spoke to breeders and our vet who all but a few also made reference to rage as we had children and all sugested that a roan would be our best option.

I now know that although rage syndrome does occur in cockers it is very rare and unfairly pin pointed to this specific breed                    

[TOPAZ BILLY]

We where also talked out of getting a solid colour cocker (red) by a breeder ( she was trying to sell us Billy at the time) but now we are looking forward to extending our cocker family with a solid black(liver roan proving too hard to get hold of) Our vet also commented when we took Billy into see him that we would have to watch his temperament as we had a child :? If you have ignorance and bias on this level what chance does the merry cocker image have?

Michelle                    

[Magic Star]

:shock: I would change your vet Michelle :wink:  My vet was delighted to see Indie when I first took her, he said how much he loved the breed and that they made excellent pets for young families, of course providing you follow the normal common sence rules

We did consider a gold at the very beginning, but after reading about the slight possibility of rage we decidied against, BUT I don't think that I would have the same opinion now.  Providing we go to a reputable breeder etc, then I would consider a solid cocker   Its such a shame that a minority of people hold this view of cockers :roll:  but thats there choice, I guess :?   Its like me I have opinions of certain breeds, which maybe are not deserved, but once you hear of a couple of incidents and then the press decide to witchunt and report every single incident with the said particular breed, it becomes so easy for Jo Public to draw their own conclusions :roll:  :?   I hope that makes some kind of sence                    

[TOPAZ BILLY]

:shock: I would change your vet Michelle :wink:  My vet was delighted to see Indie when I first took her, he said how much he loved the breed and that they made excellent pets for young families, of course providing you follow the normal common sence rules
quote]

All ready done Emma,                    

[Shirley]

When we were looking for a puppy we didn't really mind what colour we got and I phoned breeders of particolours and solids.  Eric had said if we had the choice he'd like a red/gold but we'd just be happy to get a well bred puppy.  I asked every breeder that I phoned if they had any seen a case of rage in any dog, not necessarily their own.  

Everyone I phoned was really good and told me everything they knew about it but only one lady had see a cocker with rage and she was involved in breed rescue.  None of the particolour breeders tried to put me off looking for a red in order to sell me one of their puppies.  I was really pleased with all the information that I got from them and from books and the internet and made an informed choice - dont' know what we'd do without him

Our vet loves him and admires him whenever he's in.  He did tell me on our first visit that they were strong willed - nothing I hadn't heard from all the breeders I phoned.                        

[padfoot]

Yes, during this getting-to-know-you phase, Toby has definitely shown himself to be strong-willed    We have tried to keep him downstairs but he has somehow learned that when the kids open the stairgate they inevitably don't shut it properly...and he has figured out how to get it to open so he can go chase the cat   .
I didn't realise how intelligent cockers were, he seems very crafty compared to Millie...I'm sure he KNOWS how cute he is and uses it against us  :wink:                    

[Kim]

I have heard of a blue with diagnosed rage, that was put to sleep.
Rage is also seen in Springers, Golden Retrievers to name but 2                      

[padfoot]

I've actually heard of a springer which may have had rage. My friend's childhood springer was apparently a lovely dog who had fits of rage so it sounds very much like he had RS. He was pts and she now insists spaniels in general are evil  :cry:  She was bitten by him quite badly though.
Springers still seem to have a better reputation than cockers though, or so it seems.