Would A Working Cocker Work For Me?

[PurpleHazed]

Hey guys!

I'm new to the board so please be patient and gentle with me 

Well I am going to start my very first thread with a very common conundrum - the working cocker as a non-working 'pet'. Please don't hate me! Just read on and maybe you can understand. I am wondering if I could basically handle their exercise requirements while still maintaining their health as they seem rather driven dogs.

Why go for a worker rather than a show dog?
I live in a very hot country (only in the UK until the end of the year then heading back home) and I figure the lighter coats would help cool the dog off a lot more easily. I am also very focused on temperament which working dogs tend to have a better 'pool' to choose from if you will - and while I understand my concerns would be eliminated if I found a proper show breeder it is a bit more difficult for me to guarantee it from afar (with possibly one or two visitations before I claim the puppy.) I also keep hearing that working dogs tend to be more laidback /indoors/ in comparison to the show strain - to me this is pretty important. I live with two seniors and a bunch of other people who prefer a calm household.  Also biddability, I hear working cockers are much more biddable and easier to train - this is necessary as it would be my first dog (and to help introduce positive reinforcement training methods to the local animal shelter if I am successful.) Biddability also means I can help mellow the dog out indoors with some good training. They are also less noisy (or so I've read) and don't require as much grooming (our local groomers gave a few dogs ring worms - so suffice to say I don't trust'em... )

What environment can I provide?
A half hour walk in the am before work (when the sun isn't so hot), another walk at around 4 for an hour or two, and finally whatever it is I am doing at night the dog would be more than likely joining me (friend's house, visit coffee shops when the weather is cooler, and so on) or another half hour walk. I will also focus on a lot of obedience training, scent training, and a lot of retrieving. I also live 10 minutes drive from the beach, 15-20 minutes from the flat open desert, and I have a small children's park less than 3 minutes walk from my house. I will work only 2-4 hours 3-4 times a week, the rest would be spent at home (and horse riding lessons - would love to bring him there too but it depends on the dog and horses!)

The one thing that worries me is that we don't have agility courses, obedience classes or puppy classes back home. I would love to start it myself but this will be my first dog and my first attempt at training (I am opting for positive reinforcement via clicker training, focusing on some free-shaping as I hope to tire the dog out mentally since tiring him out physically would be impossible!)

I want to add that if I were to ever request for a working strain I would make sure to get the 'laziest' or most laid back of the litter (with the help of the breeder of course). If there is a doubt about his energy levels I have no problem waiting for the next litter. In all honesty I would love to find a 'failed' working dog, one that simply didn't have the drive that I can scoop up and give a home!

That's about it. What do you guys think? Would I be able to manage a cocker? I want to be absolutely sure and do all my research before I decide, I still have a year to make up my mind!

...also please don't hate me for asking this 

[Sarah1985]

I have two workers as pets and it works for us.

However one of mine isnt great at settling in the house, particularly if Ive been at work during the day (despite him getting a 2.5 to 3 hour walk on my return). In the evening he constantly brings me balls and toys to play with.It takes him up to half an hour to settle sometimes, which isnt great when your fav tv show is on. However he doesnt have this problem if we are at home with him all day, even if hes had a shorter walk.

 I also looked after someone elses working cocker who absouletly refused to settle at all in the evening. If he didnt get attention he would wonder the house looking to cause trouble to get attention. Stealing things, barking, knocking things off the worktop. However IMO this particular working cocker isnt provided with enough stimulation at home so I think causing trouble round the house must have become a bit of a habit. So all the exercise and stimulation I provided (that my two are happy with) wasnt enough to calm him down. So my advise with any dog is to ingrain good habits from the outset. Round the house is a time for settling down for a snooze. Garden and walks are the time for fun.

I have never owned a show cocker so I cant compare on ability to cope with heat and bidability. My two are incredibly clever, which is a great help when Im training them but it does mean they know how to wrap me round their little fingers. 

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Jane S]

I'm sure you will get lots of replies on this but am a little concerned that you want a Working Cocker because you've been told they are quieter around the house and more biddable than the show type strain Are you sure a Cocker is actually what you want? Cockers are by nature "busy little bees", full of life and often quite bouncy when young. I don't think you can necessarily expect a puppy of either strain to be laid back - you only have to read the threads on here to see that Cockers generally just aren't that kind of breed (although of course there are individuals of both strains who can be by nature more placid and lazy than others).

Why not have a look around the forum here and see some of the threads on the Puppies board and also the other boards - you'll get a better idea of what the breed is really like to live with (both strains) and then decide if this really is the breed that will suit your lifestyle.

[PurpleHazed]

Great advice guys! Thank you so much!

I have been looking around and realizing that if I am to go with cocker spaniel then my best bet to ensure calm indoors is if I get an older dog (say 2+ years) who has an already established personality. I just keep hearing conflicting information on how calm they can be since all dogs are not the same of course! I just love cocker spaniels and I suppose a part of me was hoping it can still work out.

[Mudmagnets]

Hya

Don't think peeps have any reason to hate you for asking a perfectly reasonable question. All COL'RS want the best possible for the breed and are more likely to respect you for asking the important questions before deciding on your pooch.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do 

[8 Hairy Feet]

Hello
You may find some of the CoLers from
non-uk locations would be able
to give you advice about cockers
and hot weather(esp as we get none here )
Wait around, they should be about!
Also, are you thinking about exporting
the dog with you? There are also folk on here
who have moved continents with their dog.
Be patient as not everyone is about all
the time.
steffxxx

[LurcherGirl]

I have been looking around and realizing that if I am to go with cocker spaniel then my best bet to ensure calm indoors is if I get an older dog (say 2+ years) who has an already established personality. I just keep hearing conflicting information on how calm they can be since all dogs are not the same of course! I just love cocker spaniels and I suppose a part of me was hoping it can still work out.

Whether you get a puppy or an adult dog, the key is build an off-switch into your dog! This applies to any breed, working types or not. It means you need to teach your dog to settle. You can achieve this by crate training and putting your puppy into the crate a couple of times a day for an hour or two where they will settle and be calm.
By not giving into their attention seeking all the time, you can also teach a puppy to play by themselves with toys, chews etc.

I know that some dogs/breeds are naturally busier than others, but all dogs can learn to settle and be calm(ish) indoors. Some need more physical and mental exercise to be able to do that than others, but all dogs should have an off-switch!

[dianna1]

Working cockers are wonderful I've got 3 .  Where are you going to be taking your new partner?   What are the popular breeds established there?   You can always do a grooming course  to help  and make your own agility course and get some friends to join in for fun.  Some of my random thoughts; you are obviously doing some serious thinking,  good luck with your decision.

[Carolynleah]

I got Nerys (part show/part working) after she was found to be unsuitable to go beating with the shoot, and despite one or two problems to start with (she is a bit nervy with some men, I rather think this could be due to the trainer when she was a pup) she has turned into a great little dog.  She loves a run, her re-call is pretty good as long as I don't let her get too far away and stop her before she takes off after a scent, and is very affectionate and loving.  She will settle in the house when I am busy, but does love lots of attention and being involved wherever possible.  She is happy to be left for a few hours as long as she has something to occupy her - the favourite being cardboard boxes to destroy.  She does like carrying items round the house, which might be my shoes if I am not careful    Good luck with your research!

[hanandhen]

You could still get a show type - and a set of clippers! Henry (show-type) is trimmed right back all year round for practical reasons, it's not hard once you get the hang of it (although you may have a rather odd-looking dog the first couple of attempts )

I do genuinely believe ALL spaniels, whether cocker, springer, or other, show or working, need plenty of mental stimulation as well as physical exercise, and to use the instincts they have to hunt. You don't have to work a dog to do this, but IME spaniels love to use their noses - so gundog training (which you can do with positive reward methods very successfully), and scent-work training (as though your dog is a sniffer-dog) go down a treat.

Henry is mostly quiet at home, although he has his maniac moments, which I would (mostly) not change at all. Any young dog can have these - our old lab use to tear round the house like a racetrack when he was a young hooligan.

[PennyB]

our local groomers gave a few dogs ring worms - so suffice to say I don't trust'em... )

you can easily learn how to groom your dog - my showtypes are clipped off which is straightforward

show types do vary as well in exercise/stimulation needs

[Helen]

and I'm purchasing clippers for my working type - it's a fallacy that all working cocker's coats are easy care 

[wendyt]

I've got 2 Workers as pets and we have no trouble, although Murphy has a couple of issues we know how to deal with them. The boys  get an hour off lead in the morning usually on the beach where they run about like loons, and in the evening we do about 30 minutes of training (obedience, retreiving and scent work) followed by a short play with their beloved tennis balls as a reward. This seems to work for them as they both settle down in the evening after they've been fed.

I'm lucky with their coats as they are short, for a while when Indy (he's liver coloured)was a puppy I thought his was going to be a nightmare but as he's shed his puppy coat he's now quite sleek. So grooming for us isn't a problem.

It has to be said that these dogs are busy by nature, and incredibly clever so keeping them mentally stimulated is as important as exercise. A trainer told me that over exercising a dog doesn't tire it out, it just makes it more hyper, which is something I've always kept in mind.

Good luck 

[PurpleHazed]

Oh wow! Everyone here has been so incredibly sweet and informative! Thank you so much! I think I just got a bit board shy after a few other forums...

It has to be said that these dogs are busy by nature, and incredibly clever so keeping them mentally stimulated is as important as exercise. A trainer told me that over exercising a dog doesn't tire it out, it just makes it more hyper, which is something I've always kept in mind.

Yes! Admittedly it is that advice that made me realize that I can possibly do this; simply because they can go forever physically doesn't mean they should or that it's the way to go. Then when I found out you can train an 'off-switch' for when they are indoors as LurcherGirl suggested I knew I will be pushing that in training

I fully plan on bringing in scent training and obedience training (free-shaping should tire the ol' brain out). I /love/ the idea of making up my own agility course too! I'll need to look up what is usually used and see if I can set something up temporarily in a few of the empty lots by my house. Just a few things to jump over, jump under, have him weave around parking poles and balance on the playground's see-saw He'll be just like Rocky I have friends who have french bulldogs and staffordshires, I know they could use something like that to drain their energy too.

Then I figure interactive toys will further tire him out and perhaps keep'em calm during the more quiet moments - hide treats around the room, get him those awesome puzzle toys, frozen kongs, teaching him to find loose change in my couch and fetching me things.

I did look up grooming (even different types styles - puppy cut has to be a favorite so far ) but while I was reading up on it I found one website that claims clipping their coat actually causes them to overheat even more (!); the feathery outer layer is supposed to help regulate and trap cooler air into the dense coat underneath  - I'm not sure how true that is, anyone have any more information?

[Jane S]

I did look up grooming (even different types styles - puppy cut has to be a favorite so far ) but while I was reading up on it I found one website that claims clipping their coat actually causes them to overheat even more (!); the feathery outer layer is supposed to help regulate and trap cooler air into the dense coat underneath   - I'm not sure how true that is, anyone have any more information?

I think you might have been looking at an American Cocker site (known just as Cockers in the USA)? They often use the term "Puppy Cut" but it's not something you hear in relation to our breed of Cocker

There was a thread recently on the Grooming board about clipping and overheating so you might find it useful: http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=85613.0