RAW feeders - yukky question

[Geordietyke]

As a trial, I've been feeding Archie the raw Natures Menu lamb nuggets since Wednesday afternoon.  As I'm really not sure about going raw completely, I've given him kibble for breakfast and the nuggets for dinner (I can't bear the thought of any bones though).  However, ever since Wednesday, his poos have been horrendous  - massive piles of what can only be described as a moussy mess 

Is this usual when introducing some raw into their diet and if so, how long does it last for?  Whenever I've changed kibbles or to wet, I've not had this.  Thanks!  Lesley

[ejp]

I had nothing like this with Bertie and Lara when I changed them over Lesley.  Poos were normal, does the raw nuggets contain ground bone, do you know?  I fed my two Honey's and there was a quantity of bone in it, which probably firmed things up.

[Geordietyke]

Thanks, I thought it couldn't be normal.

Contents are:

Lamb (25%), Chicken (20%), Brown Rice (13.5%),Peas (10%), Carrots (10%), Swede (10%), Salmon (5%), Liver (5%), Minerals, Prebiotic MOS, Yucca Extract, Green Tea Extract, Grape Seed Extract

Analytical Constituents:
Protein (11%), Crude Oils & Fats (9%), Crude Ash (1.5%), Crude Fibres (1%), Moisture (66%).

Additives (per kg):
Vitamin A 1,500iu, Vitamin D 150iu, Vitamin E 21mg. Trace elements: Zinc oxide 39mg, Iron sulphate monohydrate 30mg, Copper sulphate pentahydrate 11mg, Calcium iodate anhydrous 0.65mg, Selenium yeast inactivated 13.2mg/kg.

So it looks like there is none, ND do state to give the dogs additional meaty bones but I really don't want to have it dragged all over the place 

What other raw food contains bones? 

[twiceover2]

I feed nutriment (known as Nutribarf over here in France) which contains ground up bone.  When we switched to raw we found less output of a firmer variety.

[elaine.e]

I can think of 4 possible reasons Lesley

One is that feeding him one meal of kibble and one of raw isn't suiting him.

Another is that, although some of the Nature's Menu products are very good, personally I don't like feeding the nuggets because they don't contain enough meat in my opinion. they contain rice (not raw, so I don't understand why it's in the nuggets) and they have a high vegetable content. I recently bought some of the square blocks of NM by mistake, not realising they had rice in them and not a lot of meat. I've been using them up rather than waste them and there's been a noticeable increase in the amount of poo produced by William and Louis each time they've had a block between them.

Another reason could be the meat source in the nuggets. As well as lamb they contain chicken and small amounts of liver and some salmon as well. It's possible that one of them is a protein that doesn't agree with Archie.

Final possible reason that I can think of is the amount you're feeding. I'm sure you will have calculated, but just to check, are you feeding him half of his previous amount of kibble? Are you feeding him half of between 2 and 3% of his bodyweight of raw? (2-3% of ideal bodyweight would be the average for full raw diet).

I know this has been a big step for you to try, but could you try the Nature's Menu "just" range of blocks of meat instead of the nuggets? Each block is 300g, which would be a meal for my two, so roughly two meals for Archie. They thaw out quite quickly and it's easy enough to get half the block out of the packaging and tip the other half into a container for the next meal. Just store it in the fridge in the same area as you store other raw meat.

The "just" range is just meat. All of them apart from the beef and the tripe have some minced bone in them. Bone is needed in the diet and it's an easy way to fed it.

[Geordietyke]

Thanks Elaine.  Yes, I am a bit squeamish about the raw, especially with kids in the house and Archie being a particularly "licky" dog. I thought trying the nuggets was the simpler options but you may be right about the contents, on closer inspection, it doesn't seem to contain much meat and no bones so not worth feeding if going part/full raw really!  I was feeding him half the amount stated.  Archie seems to be a lean dog, always on the go and he does lose weight quickly so I'm leaning towards over feeding atm.

I will look out for the "meat" range.   

Can I clean his mouth with baby wipes?  I'm sure I read somewhere that a dog's mouth/saliva deals with raw food quicker than kibble or some such....

[elaine.e]

I'm sure you can wipe his mouth. I don't bother with William and Louis, but neither of them is especially licky and there's only me and OH to think of, no children.

[Deb H]

I feed Hebe 2 natures menu country hunter nuggets meals and 2 Origen kibble meals and we have no poop problems. The nuggets are rice and gluten free so is the kibble. She is positively thriving on it. Try the country hunter a little more expensive but working for our pointer pup. She's gaining a kilo a week.

[Geordietyke]

My local pet store which I like to support didn't have the country hunter ones, that's why I chose these ones, I'm a bit scared to continue with raw as it was soooo embarrassing trying to pick the huge piles up in the middle of the street (my horror can spend an hour on grass but wait till we are back on the streets before he'll do a poo  )

[Helen]

I think that the length of time between the raw and the kibble meal is long enough for a dog to digest.

I've never had issues with feeding half raw/half kibble and do believe that its a bit of a fallacy about the digestion of both.  I've fed kibble and raw tripe in the same meal and Jarv's poo was perfectly fine and he has a sensitive stomach and digestion.

It does sound like something in the nuggets - is his kibble rice based? 

[Geordietyke]

It is Helen, it's Lamb and Rice, I took him off the grain free after 7 months as he kept losing weight and he was doing lots of poos a day (lab sized  ).  Do you think it's too much rice?  I've got around a 1/4 bag left of his kibble, maybe I should keep him on that until it's finished and review his diet again.... (BTW I feed him his kibble at 7am and his raw at 4.30pm)